Am I being naive?

[CosyFawn]

I’ll try keep this short and not drip feed.

Been with DP for 7 months, we moved in together very quickly (he moved into my place as he lived with parents). He is 3 years separated but still married and has a DD (5) with ex wife. He see’s DD most weekends but has never had her overnight and I assumed this was because ex wouldn’t allow it. He told me when we got together she’s mentally unstable, stops him seeing their DD, she’s nasty, controlling, coercive etc etc. Of course I believed him, it all made sense, he seemed the victim in the break up too. He wanted to introduce me to DD after a month, and his ex asked wouldn’t allow it until we’d been together for 3 months, which then we agreed to meet her over coffee. She seemed perfectly lovely and quite switched on but before too long him and the ex were arguing. Her calling him a liar and him saying the same, he was saying she stops him seeing DD which she denied (there were many things said) We ended up leaving and things were left sour. I fully defended him and perhaps I shouldn’t have gotten involved but I felt bad for him, being accused of being a rubbish father & person.

So everything has been perfect for the last 7 months between us, we’ve even spoken about marriage once he’s divorced. But here’s the thing, I saw a message come up on his phone from her, I didn’t mean to look but he left his phone on the coffee table and I read the first few lines in the preview. It was referencing a time he cancelled on DD to spend time with another girl (before me) and how he’s cancelled in the past on DD for events, socialising, drinking, etc and I’m thinking is he really what she says he is? He’s made out for so long it’s all her controlling the situation and stopping him be a better dad. I’ve tried to approach the subject but he shuts it down usually saying how controlling and abusive she is, I don’t understand what he’s been through. I am not a parent but we’ve discussed the idea of having children together. The message I saw is not the only thing that’s made me think perhaps it’s him and not her but I don’t want to believe it. Things have been so unbelievably perfect and we never argue or disagree. I just don’t know what to believe! I can’t approach the ex as she doesn’t like me after the meeting and it’ll cause more drama if I do.

anyone experienced similar or have any advice for me?

He’s absolutely taking advantage of you- why on earth would you think he’ll behave differently if you had a house together! He won’t. Nothing stopping him contributing money and chores now, other than he’s getting everything for free

Hi @CosyFawn
I have read almost every post on the thread because I can relate (with hindsight).

For everyone reading (and speaking for myself not OP), this type of guy presents as perfect "for you" not simply perfect eg they are masters at learning (quickly) what you want/values/hopes etc and they present as that. You want someone dependable - tis me! You want someone to go on walks with and watch sunsets? Tis my favourite thing! You like croissants and coffee? Me too! Laughable but it is subtle.

OP has set out the bare bones of the situation eg he lives there 24/7 and has a key but probably didnt start off 24/7? Maybe a night here, 2 nights there. What is the point of going home, it is late etc?

To use an analogy, like a frog in a pan of cold water, the temperature increasing slowly - it wont hop out as it doesnt notice the gradual build in temperature. That is where the OP seems but has had the sense to notice. Give OP credit for that.

Long story short, you can put boundaries in place - it isnt too latw but he most likely will push back eg he buys all the food as you pay all the bills (dont put him on the bills). You tell him what nights so you maintain your council tax reduction (for now). He sees his kiddo on his own and they do not come to yours (your home is yours, not theirs). Stay firm or he ships out bsck to his parents and you try again (until he sticks to your boundaries) or end the relationship of he does not respect your wishes.

HTH (and for anyone wondering, I kicked the manbaby cocklodger to the kerb in my case)

If she's so awful and abusive, why is he still married to her?

To add to what @LemonLass has said, this is another sign of the abuser - they don't want to let go of any of their victims, and all their victims are useful triangulation. If you become too 'demanding' (wanting him to pay his fair share, get a divorce etc), he'll tell you that you are just like his ex.

And don't be surprised if you find he's still telling her that it's her he really loves.

The hatred he feels for his ex is also a red flag, OP, nobody can be happy in a new relationship and ready to move on if they’re still harbouring anger and hatred from the old one. Take it from someone who’s been there and had a relationship with someone EXACTLY like him. I had a few months of being exactly like you, perfect man, thought I’d won the lottery. In reality he was a controlling narc and the next six months was hideous, and when I ended it, he turned into an absolute stalky bastard and I ended up calling the police and on antidepressants. These men won’t change, he doesn’t do things for you that he didn’t do for her, he’s feeding you crap and crumbs, and you’re falling for it because, obviously, it’s different with you! It’s always different, except it’s not.

So the time he does get with his DD you’re always there unless he’s taking her to his parents? Where is that vital 1-1 time together letting her know she’s number 1?

He’s a useless lazy low effort father doing the absolute bare minimum all the while slagging off the woman who is doing all of the heavy lifting regarding supporting his child.

And tbh OP you’re not exactly coming across as covering yourself in glory here. Why have you let him shoehorn you into his DD life after a very short time? Why do you need to be there for the handovers? It actually sounds like he’s trying to antagonise his ex and you’re a willing participant smirking in the background.

I hope this thread has been a wake up call however the way you’re defending this cocklodging twat, I don’t really think you are seeing g the huge red flags he’s waving right in your face and you’ll carry on if he throws you a few crumbs.

Highlighting this.

This has disaster written all over it, if true.

Why were you defending a bloke you've known for two minutes to a woman who knows him much much better, she is the mother of his child and you presume to know better than her and defend him to her? No wonder she wouldn't be interested in speaking to you.
Then surprise surprise, it seems she might not be the 'crazy' liar you've been told she is, and her accusations hold weight.

This isn't even getting into all the other screeching alarm bells among everything you've said regarding him and your relationship.

He is not different than your other previous relationships with shit guys, he's another one. It follows a pattern.
That pattern doesn't change until you do.
Leave him, get therapy.

Thank you for understanding and relating to my situation. This is exactly how it is. It didn’t start off 24:7 it was just one night a week and a weekend overnight, it gradually built up until he was moving his belongings in without me really realising what was going on. I’ve been completely wrapped up in the whirlwind of who I thought he was.

To other posters, yes you’re right, I don’t know why he is still married or why he hasn’t fought for any type of custody. He has told me she has made it almost impossible for him and refuses to cooperate and that’s what I accepted. I don’t know her or the type of person she is so I was inclined to believe anything he told me. Why would I think he’d lie? I’ve never been with a man who’s been married or has children before so this is all new to me.

The things he’s done with me that he didn’t with her mostly include events we’ve attended and trips abroad. We went away to Italy to a particular place he told me she always wanted to go to. But because of lockdown and having a young child they didn’t. He took me after 4 months of being together and we booked it very early on. Things we have done I have asked in passing, did you do this with your ex? Have you been here with your ex? And he’s always replied no this wouldn’t interest her or be her thing, then I hear she’s doing almost the same things.

I appreciate all the comments on here harsh or not, I needed the reality check and to hear it for myself because I’ve clearly been living in a delusion.

I really feel for you OP, I was very naïve too. I married one just like this. It hurts to realise you’ve been used but once you do see it you can’t unsee it. At least you can get away without it costing you too much of your precious life. Well done for realising relatively quickly too. Sending hugs xx

His friends get spun the same stories you do

We went away to Italy to a particular place he told me she always wanted to go to. But because of lockdown and having a young child they didn’t.
Why would that be something you thought was a positive for you? Wife always wanted to go so he took his girlfriend? The only reason they didnt go was circumstances getting in the way. It sounds like he wanted to go. He took you very early on as it was an opportunity for him to go. He didnt even properly know you at that point. It wasnt about you and your relationship

I have asked in passing, did you do this with your ex? Have you been here with your ex
That is not healthy or acceptable behaviour from you either.

And he’s always replied no this wouldn’t interest her or be her thing, then I hear she’s doing almost the same things.
He should not even have to answer constant questions like this. So I can understand the lies. But it is more lies.

OP, he took you to the place in Italy that his ex had always wanted to go to. Can you hear what you're saying? Listen to what he's doing. That was a massive 'fuck you' to his ex. Please see the anger and the nastiness - it wasn't a compliment to you or something lovely, it was a deliberately nasty thing to do to make his ex feel bad.

You've been played. He knows what to say and do to manipulate people he can use, stealthily and charmingly.

You fell for his spiel but now your eyes are open and you ought to be able to walk away head held high. Learn from this experience.

So he’s taking you to places his ex always wanted to go to? That in itself seems very weird. I’d also take with a pinch of salt that he didn’t do anything with the ex - either he’s trying to make your relationship seem more exciting and spontaneous or he’s telling the truth but he was the one stopping the trips.

Who is paying for your trips?

It also stroked OP's ego "I took you but not her because you mean more to me".

Be honest OP, didn't it give you a boost?

@CosyFawn I'm glad this thread is helping you to realise that you have been wearing rose-tinted glasses. Perhaps it is time to take them off now.

Hi @BMW6
That may depend on how the trip was funded eg he paid in full (doubt it given his cocklodger performance domestically/financially). I may be wrong on that?

I agree that the trip seems to have been a huge "2 finger salute" to the ex wife and not about OP or relationship (a boost to his ego and possibly a lie because it seems him and his ex BOTH had wanted to go to that desination. OP just helped that happen for this individual.

If I were in OP position amd wanted the relationship to work, I would be setting ground rules with deadlines and explaining if he wanted to show his commitment, they include (in no particular priority order:)

1. He phones today to make a solicitor appointment to divorce (unless he and ex are getting bsck together. Just messy and needs to happen)
2. He stays at parents place more at least a few nights per week. I would want my own space/place to myself, friends, family or just peace and quiet sometimes!

2a. His kiddo doesnt come around to yours (it isnt his "home", his parents' place is?)

1. You discuss food/bills and what 50% (at least from him) looks like
2. The household tasks he can undertake eg cook/wash up, vac around, clean bathroom or whatever. Divide it more equally

He will (or should) have done these chores when living with the now ex or at his parents'

OP free to decide ultimately what to do. Advice would be ditch or draw a line in the sand and enforce your rules

Let’s be honest the whole relationship with the OP seems to be one big ‘fuck you’ to the ex

He's absolutely rubbing her face in it and using the OP for free bed board and sex while he’s at it.

Not a nice man AT ALL

Duplicate post

You keep saying of course I believed this or that, like it was a given. But it wasn’t. You don’t have to just accept and believe whatever people tell you. Especially when it makes literally no sense.

youre saying he’s done stuff for you that he’d never do for her, like that’s a positive. But no that’s still in the cons side of the pro con list.
him hating her in no way indicates she abused him and I don’t know how you reached that conclusion so definitively.

7 months is absolutely too soon for his child to be over at your house at every bit of contact, and you to be at all pick ups and drop offs (why?!) I feel very sorry for the mother of the child. How are you not finding it unattractive that he only sees his kid with you or his mum there and he sees her so little that he only has to feed her lunch, which he can’t even be arsed to make ever and just gives her fast food every single time.
and the fact he’s not paying you money and it’s not occurred to either of you seemingly? Or that he should tidy up in the house he’s living in for free?

hes got a reason for everything and you’re accepting them all. I think you need to go back over things and really think about what you’d say to someone else in your position, because he’s taking you for a ride.

We went away to Italy to a particular place he told me she always wanted to go to.

Omg can't you see how awful this is??

And you think that's him being good to you!!!??

Men are unreliable narrators, especially where their ex's are concerned.

And more so when they need somewhere to live and get everything done for them - a clean, tidy home for example.

Make sure your contraception is reliable.

Oh OP!! What makes you feel you should be doing all this for another grown adult? Being in a relationship doesn’t chain you to the kitchen sink. If a friend moved in and just didn’t pay anything towards the upkeep of your house and bills what would you think? If she didn’t take a turn to clean the bathroom? Ate all your food and didn’t always replenish it? It’s not normal is it? A man should do all that for himself. Hybrid working is still working, you’re not paid to wash his underpants. And the child thing, absolute shite. No mother wants to do this alone, they want a solid co-parent they can rely on. If he wanted his kid and was a good dad, he’d have her regularly.

my final point ….never date promises or potential. Assume this is the package because the chances are this is as good as he gets. This is his full capacity right now, he’s had 3 years to get his shit together. This is it op, he’s not going to be better