Something isn't right - emotional affair or just friends?

[FourAndFive]

Name changed for this. It's a bit of a blur, and long, apologies in advance.

I need help and/or a slap to either wake me up to an emotional affair and huge gaslighting from my DH (47), or to help me deal with a shiny new friendship my DH of 24 years has.

He's hidden a friendship from me that has been going on for nearly a year. He has never, ever done this before, and has been a completely open book in all our years together. The last five years have been so good for us emotionally, and our relationship felt solid as far as I was concerned.

He has a hobby that he is obsessed (not lightheartedly obsessed, genuinely obsessed) with, and while doing this hobby he meets people from time to time. He would usually mention these people in passing, and I'm happy he's happy, so all good. About 6-7 weeks ago, he started to mention at funny times how he was meeting 'great people', and 'so many people to chat to' and 'I know so many people now' while he's doing his hobby and I thought yeah, great, but it was out of tone, and quite odd.

Fast forward a week or so, and he keeps name dropping and then tells me that I have to meet someone (single F28), because I'd really like her, and she does the hobby a bit more than he does, and has done it all over the world and how nice she is etc. and so I found myself meeting her for a few hours across two days, alongside some of her family members, who all knew about my DH and the shared hobby and thought how sweet it was... It was so very odd, and I couldn't put my finger on why, and I was so uncomfortable.

To cut a very long story short, it turns out they've been regularly meeting up since late last year, texting multiple times a day, including gifts and planning things around their hobby... I've since seen most of their messages. I have never seen my DH speak to anyone like he speaks to her (except me). He is a man who I know has strong moral boundaries, and keeps a safe distance from other women, doesn't encourage and is completely platonic with all of his female friends - which is clearly no longer the case! There is no 'sex' chat, and he talks about us occasionally (we have 2DC) but it's overly affectionate/mutual appreciation and excitement for finding each other - and I've hated reading them. (I asked him for phone access after all the minimising he was doing, and he said he'd deleted all messages - but he forgot to remove them from his deleted items, so I restored them. I know this is a massive red flag.)

I've told him that I need him to cut all contact with her - but he had serious meltdown (talk of CS), insists it's just friends and that I should trust him. I am finding this impossible, considering the lengths he's taken to hide her until recently. He hasn't done anything to reduce contact, and has even initiated meeting her multiple times, even though I specifically asked him not to. I know they met today for the hobby, and I know they've text each other, because he is telling me - at my request. But I shouldn't worry, because he loves me blah blah. I just want a bit of respite from it so I can get my head around his utterly bizarre behaviour, and consider everything that's happened. It's so unlike him.

I feel sick. The trust isn't there. I feel anxious all the time. I know what I should be doing, but I don't want him to be unhappy at the same time - especially if it is actually platonic. Thoughts please wise MN women! How do I navigate this shit show?

This sounds awful OP. I’m so sorry to hear that you’re going through this.

One thing I’d like to add from a past relationship where a partner did threaten to commit suicide as a means of leveraging me to agree that he could do things/that I would stop doing things, is that the best way to approach this is to treat it absolutely seriously.

If he tells you that he wants to commit suicide because you are asking for time to process this discovery and want him to stop seeing her for awhile, then tell him that this worries you a lot, and that you have no option but to treat it as serious. Treating it seriously means potentially getting him committed. This VERY quickly winnows out a serious attempt from a threat that’s being used as leverage, and committing someone who is at high risk of suicide is one of the only responsible, safe things that can be done to ensure they have round the clock care and mental health support. If it’s a real threat you’ll be protecting him, if it’s manipulation he’ll get a sharp lesson to never use it as a threat again.

Just to reiterate what other posters have said, this isn’t an appropriate response to you sharing your worries. When I have felt insecure about my partner’s female friendships, my partner has listened, reassured me, offered to take a break in seeing them, and told me that if it’s a real issue then our relationship is more important than that friendship. Vice versa. Hiding it and insisting it’s all fine is not OK.

Also start pulling back on the day to day stuff you do for him. Stop doing his laundry, cooking his meals, or cleaning up after him. Let him feel the gap when you step back. It’s not about playing games, it’s about reminding him you’re not a servant and that your time and energy are valuable.

OP, suicide talk is the height of manipulation.

This has every single red flag possible all over it. He is putting her first, himself second and you probably waay down the chain of care.

In your shoes I would leave or end the marriage. There is no way I would be able to come back from this and be happy with him again. I'm sorry you are going through this. I am currently in the sort of 'limbo' you describe. No other person involved but I am checked out for a variety of reasons and being here is making me ill.

Get out before you get ill.

What is the hobby?!! It seems quite full on. Have you thought about speaking with her to tell her how it’s making you feel because she might think you’re cool with it. Then again they could be having an affair and trying to act like they’re just friends to throw everyone off, including her parents!

What is the hobby OP?

Whatever you decide to do OP, take this opportunity to start working on your own life and putting yourself first. Let him get a taste of what it would be like if you decided to move on without him. Your kids are at an age where they are fairly independent and you’ll be gaining some time back. Enjoy your hobbies - perhaps some new ones without your husband, focus on your friendships and yourself. As the saying goes put your life mask on first. He’ll see how capable you would be without him & if things don’t work out, you’ve already taken a big step forward in your independence.

I think he’s already checked out of your marriage, so it’s probably beyond saving. His behaviour is suspicious and underhand - he knows it’s wrong and isn’t stopping. He doesn’t care enough about you or your marriage to stop. I’m really sorry - it’s shit. You can have a ‘marriage or her’ conversation but it sounds like he’s really deeply in an EA (even if mainly on his side). I would take the control back if it was me and see a lawyer - he needs to see what he’s going to lose here and you need to value your self worth, and not put up with this behaviour. I’m so sorry.

I had something similar to this around 10 years ago.

My DH got really into marathon running and there was a woman who happened to work in his office that was also into marathon running.

i was happy for him at first but they were getting closer and closer. I could just tell that something was off. He couldn’t though and we had plenty of arguments about it.

I worked in a very small, male team at the time and confided in my male colleagues. They all strongly encouraged me to nip this in the bud as this is how affairs start. They had all been in this type of situation themselves and had ended up cheating.

To cut a long story short, DH came home one day to tell me that they had signed up to do a marathon together in a European city. That was the final straw. Either he cancels this marathon and stops running with her, texting her, having anything to do with her or me and the children are off.

He wasn’t happy about it but he knew it wasn’t an empty threat so he did as I asked.

I think you need to ignore his emotional blackmail and give him an ultimatum.

My ex behaved like this. The only thing I don't regret from this period, is that while I was being gaslit and lied to and desparately trying save our marriage, I also sought legal advice behind his back. This meant I already knew what I had to do when he left and ended up with her. Tell someone you know IRL and ask for their support, if they can go with you to see a solicitor that's best.

I just didn't get that from her, at all.

I don’t think it’s her per se you even need to be concerned about. If it wasn’t her it would be someone else.

The suicide threat is the biggest red flag here, and should be enough for you to seriously consider ending the marriage.

IF he’s serious (big IF), then he would literally rather die than stop / limit contact with her. That is a depth of feeling for someone else that simply cannot be tolerated in a marriage. Regardless of whether or not it is reciprocated.

If he’s not serious then this is the absolute height of emotional manipulation, and also shouldn’t be tolerated as a way of treating your spouse.

I know that’s much easier said than done, but it should be the nail in the coffin.

So he’s kept her a secret, he’s lied, he’s broken boundaries and ignored your feelings, he’s tried to gaslight you and use emotional blackmail when faced with the prospect of not getting what he needs and wants.
He’s tried to keep you sweet throughout all this because, (for whatever reason) he wants you both.
He’s in complete and utter limerence of this woman.
It could well be as others have said that she has no interest in any sort of relationship other than friends sharing a hobby. Who knows?
For me that wouldn’t matter so much as his crush and his intentions.
He’s prioritising himself, his hobby and his relationship with this woman over your relationship and you.
It’s utterly disrespectful and not what you signed up for.
Time now to think about what you want. From what you say you’ve already lost trust in him and I can tell you from experience, once that’s gone it’s nigh on impossible to repair. It would take motivation and a gargantuan effort on his part.
You mentioned couples therapy. Is this something he has suggested? If so, and only if he’s prepared to find the right therapist (one who is experienced in this area and will advocate for the relationship), I’d consider going. He thinks that it would help to make you see his point of view so that he can continue along the same vein with this woman.
I think that once the situation is unpicked and, providing the therapist is one who advocates for the relationship as the no.1 priority, I think they will advise absolutely the opposite.
I’m so sorry you are having to go through this.

Did he make the suicide threat when you told him he couldn't do an overnight trip with this woman? It was that important to him? Did you discuss how it's not normal to want to kill yourself over seeing less of a new 'friend'?

You can't go on with him using this threat to be allowed to have a physical or emotional affair with her. He's supposed to be married.

If the only thing that has happened was deleting a thread of text message exchanges then that alone is cause for very serious concern.

Are you still in love with him?

My almost xh (almost divorced, but separated for nearly 2 years) has for form for bad behaviour, gas lighting and manipulation..... But, I had a similar situation and it went on for 2 years with him promising me there was nothing going on, he's hardly in contact with her (he was, constantly), she doesn't go to said hobby anymore (she did).

We separated due a social media post she put up with him, where he screamed in my face that my jealousy wasn't his problem. I was then instantly done. Surprise, surprise they got together 2/3 months after we separated.

I disagree, not with the Amazing Man comments to her family.

She is also living her own little fantasy.

Wow. Thank you for this totally spot on response. Just absolutely hit the nail on the head.

It's not CrossFit.

Again, and brutally, you’re so far behind them, whatever is going on. You’re assuming that they are both behaving in a reasonable and upfront manner. You want to believe the best and not the worst. The reality is ( at best ) is you just don’t know. So assume the worst, and start putting yourself first. It’s the only chance you have if you’re determined to try and retrieve the relationship.

Don’t meet her, don’t do anything that’s part of the pick me dance. Your issue anyhow is with him not her. She’s clearly not your friend ( the relationship is entirely inappropriate even if innocent, and she must know this). Keep what control you have, don’t cede any more to him/them.

thank you.x

I do believe she will walk away. But I also think the resentment it will cause will destroy any hope, honestly.

My DH struck up a friendship with a single female through a mutual hobby and was messaging her in secret, in his mind innocently, but I knew he was enjoying having his ego stroked. I saw the messages when he left his computer logged on one day. When I talked to him about he protested his innocence as nothing had ever happened between them so I had to really explain about EAs and that this secret (and kinda pointless) friendship, which excluded me, was his attempt to look like a hero and a great guy.

Apparently she was going through a tough time and he wanted to help and I really had to spell it out to DH that she had friends, lots of them, and did not see him as a best friend or close confident. I had to state he was close to making a fool of himself and he had a lot to lose - and lose it he would. He was messaging her in a very caring way, when it would have been easy to tag me in, and to me this was betrayal and disloyal to me. He’s a man’s man and not an emotional problem solver, if he doesn’t take that role in our family why was he attempting it one on one with an attractive damsel in distress? She will have told her friends about it and I felt a bit of a twat. It needed to stop. This was a boundary.

I said to DH I would talk, discuss and listen to his pov, But if he absolutely needed this exclusionary friendship more than his marriage then I was sorry he felt that way and I’m sure in time we’d work out how to coparent amicably given our 20 year history. He was stunned I called him out and that I was firm it had major consequences.

Like your DH, op, he likes to look the hero/great guy, so the idea of having to explain his divorce as a result of his slimey behaviour was quite motivating for him to stop. He stopped the friendship.

I’ve given him the benefit of the doubt and in time I’ve tried to think about his needs and communicate more (back then I was lost in childcare/eldercare/work and trying to do it all myself, which I don’t anymore).

It has had a lasting impact on how I feel about him. I don’t expect perfection, I don’t expect us to mind read each other. But I do expect to sit up and have a reality check about how our behaviour affects the other person. Your DH has deleted messages, hidden a substantial friendship, lied about an overnight trip. He needs to have this bubble burst and make some clear headed decisions about where his priorities lie.

Really feel for you, OP.

Agree that the suicide threats speak volumes.

My instinct was to suggest therapy but the really insightful post from @MsPavlichenko has many good reasons why this may just prolong the pain.

I would get all the financial documentation together (inc his pension) take a free initial session with a lawyer and then ask him to move out.

I can’t get my head around how a 27 year old grown woman couldn’t possibly imagine that forming a close friendship with a married man could cause issues and be seen as inappropriate?

I think you are giving her far too much credit, OP.

I get you. However, he's been involved in everything. Very hands on with parents, has been giving me pep talks about work stress and is always just there for me with the health things - championing me even.

Just to be clear visa versa. As I said, we've been tight for so long, and I never have taken it for granted. Thanking him, and just being there for him too. It was really shocking that he used this as an excuse, honestly.

Thank you for this x