Something isn't right - emotional affair or just friends?

[FourAndFive]

Name changed for this. It's a bit of a blur, and long, apologies in advance.

I need help and/or a slap to either wake me up to an emotional affair and huge gaslighting from my DH (47), or to help me deal with a shiny new friendship my DH of 24 years has.

He's hidden a friendship from me that has been going on for nearly a year. He has never, ever done this before, and has been a completely open book in all our years together. The last five years have been so good for us emotionally, and our relationship felt solid as far as I was concerned.

He has a hobby that he is obsessed (not lightheartedly obsessed, genuinely obsessed) with, and while doing this hobby he meets people from time to time. He would usually mention these people in passing, and I'm happy he's happy, so all good. About 6-7 weeks ago, he started to mention at funny times how he was meeting 'great people', and 'so many people to chat to' and 'I know so many people now' while he's doing his hobby and I thought yeah, great, but it was out of tone, and quite odd.

Fast forward a week or so, and he keeps name dropping and then tells me that I have to meet someone (single F28), because I'd really like her, and she does the hobby a bit more than he does, and has done it all over the world and how nice she is etc. and so I found myself meeting her for a few hours across two days, alongside some of her family members, who all knew about my DH and the shared hobby and thought how sweet it was... It was so very odd, and I couldn't put my finger on why, and I was so uncomfortable.

To cut a very long story short, it turns out they've been regularly meeting up since late last year, texting multiple times a day, including gifts and planning things around their hobby... I've since seen most of their messages. I have never seen my DH speak to anyone like he speaks to her (except me). He is a man who I know has strong moral boundaries, and keeps a safe distance from other women, doesn't encourage and is completely platonic with all of his female friends - which is clearly no longer the case! There is no 'sex' chat, and he talks about us occasionally (we have 2DC) but it's overly affectionate/mutual appreciation and excitement for finding each other - and I've hated reading them. (I asked him for phone access after all the minimising he was doing, and he said he'd deleted all messages - but he forgot to remove them from his deleted items, so I restored them. I know this is a massive red flag.)

I've told him that I need him to cut all contact with her - but he had serious meltdown (talk of CS), insists it's just friends and that I should trust him. I am finding this impossible, considering the lengths he's taken to hide her until recently. He hasn't done anything to reduce contact, and has even initiated meeting her multiple times, even though I specifically asked him not to. I know they met today for the hobby, and I know they've text each other, because he is telling me - at my request. But I shouldn't worry, because he loves me blah blah. I just want a bit of respite from it so I can get my head around his utterly bizarre behaviour, and consider everything that's happened. It's so unlike him.

I feel sick. The trust isn't there. I feel anxious all the time. I know what I should be doing, but I don't want him to be unhappy at the same time - especially if it is actually platonic. Thoughts please wise MN women! How do I navigate this shit show?

I think some men truly believe they are such good guys that they can't believe it themselves. this is hitting the nail on the head for me right now.

His response: I am going to CS, there is no point going on - "I am taking everything away from him that I love"

So he actually told you that he loves her and his hobby and he doesn't love you or his dc.
I don't see how your marriage can survive that OP. I think you should take legal advice as where you stand in the event of divorce

I'm usually 100% ‘never ever talk to the other woman’ but if you genuinely think this other woman has NO IDEA that your husband fancies her, then you can tell her to back off. And she will.

She does know though. She really really does know.

Honestly you can step in to stop this train crash, or you can watch it happening. It’s up to you, but be advised, you might not even want him back in either case.

OP - I know the pain you are going through- it’s such a terrible feeling. My exH had a very close relationship with another woman and I was always uncomfortable with it - we saw her and her partner socially and they were guests at our wedding and my 50. When she split with her partner I took her for a meal to try and console her. A few years down the line and he suddenly changed - wanted a divorce and then I found emails and meal reservations that I did not go to. He swore there was nothing physical going on and they were just friends. We sold our house and he moved in with her on the day he left the house. I really should have listened to my gut and got out earlier. Sending lots of hugs x

I think you know in your heart it is not platonic. Trust your gut feeling.
He has chosen her over you.
How she feels doesn't matter although the "amazing" comment to a family member makes me think she has a thing for him too.
Him threatening to kill himself was a nasty controlling tactic.
Unless he (without any coercion from you) cuts contact with her, apologises, shows that he has understood how much he has hurt you, takes steps to never let it happen again and is willing to work to rebuild your trust, your marriage is over.
If you stay with him without him doing these things, you will always have that anxious feeling and he will continue to nurture his relationship with her.
By spending lots of time and energy with another woman and then hiding the messages he had already done enough to justify you leaving this marriage, the threatening suicide was the last straw

Ffs the more you update the worse it gets!

They had to meet this amazing person??

And you'd be taking away everything he loves?? Does that mean he loves her? Or things about her that he couldn't possibly live without? Regardless you only saying to cool it with her for the sake of your marriage and kids?

Bin that cunt off. Sorry for the C word but that's awful gaslighting entitled shit behaviour!

I think this perfectly sums up where I am for now. I'm in a holding pattern.

Yes, I am involved in the hobby.

Never. He is a happy person.

Op what is the hobby?

I really don't think it matters whether it's show-jumping, crossfit or tiddlywinks, surely?

Genuinely curious what difference you think it makes to her husband's behaviour and her reaction to it?

Having been the 28 year old in this scenario with married men, she is probably seeing him as a friend while he increases intimacy and time
together and eventually makes a move. Don’t put up with it OP. Who would commit suicide because they have to stop texting a friend they met through a hobby less than a year ago? He has feelings for this person and it is massively disrespectful for your marriage for him to essentially be dating someone else while married to you.

In this case he should be even MORE supportive of you and not thinking about how to tell you but not doing it! A year !!

Because some hobbies that require overnight would be incredibly weird to do as a man and women friends. Going to run an extreme marathon together I’ve seen lots of boy and girl friends do. Go sleeping in a tent up a mountain hiking just alone is different.

I haven't suggested me meeting just her, yet. I wanted to give him the opportunity to tell her I had no clue about it and am finding it very difficult to understand the secrecy and depth of feeling they clearly have - friends or otherwise. I have that power though, and will follow through if I need to.

He doesn't confide as such - they share. Its hard to explain today, I'm so thankful for all the messages, I'm getting through them all, slowly.

I'm so sorry this happened. It really is absolutely shit.

He won’t tell her anything. He is trying to impress her. He is mad about her!!!

He probably will agree to therapy. It allows him to continue to have his cake and eat it. I know it’s incredibly difficult to face, but affairs in plain sight are a thing. Emotional, as well as physical. Those involved can also go to counselling. All the while ignoring their partner’s needs and wants, as is happening here. He will kill himself otherwise!

Please think very carefully about all of this. You are already ground down and miserable whilst he lies and gaslights. Counselling/therapy may just be an opportunity for him to continue to do that. With an audience. Don’t assume he will do it in good faith, he’s way beyond that now. Well ahead of you.

If you still want to try and retrieve a relationship with him you need to be brave, no matter how painful it will be. You need to show him by your actions what he is risking. An ultimatum to stop seeing/communicating with her, then you can consider therapy. If he says no, see a lawyer, make serious plans, leave . Of course this may be what he wants, sorry to say., although he seems to be enjoying having two of you on the go atm. If he still wants you it might be the shock he needs.

It’s not an easy choice, but it will allow you at least to hold on to your self respect. Otherwise I fear, it will be the slow death of that, and your marriage.

You’re in a holding pattern, op?

Why so passive? You do have choices, you know.

I get that you’re stunned and probably too anxious to make a move but it is only going to get worse.

He’s tested your boundaries and you have given way.

Wheels out the wife 😂 omg, I shouldn’t laugh but that was funny

Sorry to hear your turmoil OP 🙁

I'm so sorry to read all this, OP. It sounds to me like he has an almighty crush on her and wants to have his cake (spending time with her, even if "nothing happens" beyond that) and eat it (stay with you). Is he trying to cling to his youth/prove he's still got it/can be friends with whoever?

I too get the vibe that the girl probably isn't interested in him but I'm damn sure she knows perfectly well how he feels. Either way, it's monumentally disrespectful to you. The mentions of suicide are really concerning esp as it's all so out of character and make me think he's so comfortable with you and so sure of your relationship that he's treating you as a support/counsellor figure while he processes whatever the fuck is going on in his head. Appalling for you and completely unacceptable. I think I'd be giving him the shock of his life and saying v calmly that you can't be in that role and deserve better. You can always phrase it like a "break" or something if you want to keep open to reconciliation but it feels to me like setting your own boundaries and deciding what's right for YOU is all you can do. X

My ex did this with a woman (girl half his age) from work.
Secretly met up with her, got over involved. Secretly messaged her whilst we were on holiday etc.
I asked him to stop as it made me uncomfortable and I got all the gaslighting shit back of 'we're just friends, why cant I have female friends, you're trying to control me, its all in your head' blah blah blah.....🙄 He wouldn't cut contact with her as apparently telling him who he could and couldn't see was a deal breaker for him bit apparently putting his DP feelings second, wasn't.....
Long story short, I believe she got the 'ick' or realised he wanted more than just flirting and backed right off. His nose was completely put out of joint let me tell you!!! I would sarcastically ask 'not heard from sarah today then?' He would snap back with something along the lines of 'no, why would I?'
The milk was well and truely soured after this and our relationship went south anyway. I wish I'd had the balls to tell him to pack his bags and fuck off there and then rather than waste another 6yrs of misery

That sounds absolutely awful.

Sorry this is happening to you. Happened to a family member.... nearly same scenario.... just good friends apparently... he divorced my family member, and within a month us getting married to his good friend. He claimed all mental health issues and reasons for splitting, but really he was just having an affair with this good friend! Has rewritten the whole narrative to suit himself, and has spread lies about everybody else. Just be wary of this friendship, i am not convinced men can just have good friendships without looking for more.

I’ve been in a similar position and learned the hard way that even calmly setting a boundary can backfire. When I did, he told her, and she actually started calling him more, I think because she realised our relationship wasn’t solid.

If I’d kept my cards closer to my chest and “power played” in small, everyday ways, he might have had space to rethink on his own. My advice: don’t let him or her know she bothers you. Keep your cool, keep your dignity, and don’t hand them any insight into your weak spots.

Haven't rtft, but my husband tried to convince me his friendship with a work colleague was purely just that, a friendship. He made me feel jealous and unreasonable for suggesting it was inappropriate.

Cut a long story short, he's been living with her for five years. Still denies it was an affair 🙄