Something isn't right - emotional affair or just friends?

[FourAndFive]

Name changed for this. It's a bit of a blur, and long, apologies in advance.

I need help and/or a slap to either wake me up to an emotional affair and huge gaslighting from my DH (47), or to help me deal with a shiny new friendship my DH of 24 years has.

He's hidden a friendship from me that has been going on for nearly a year. He has never, ever done this before, and has been a completely open book in all our years together. The last five years have been so good for us emotionally, and our relationship felt solid as far as I was concerned.

He has a hobby that he is obsessed (not lightheartedly obsessed, genuinely obsessed) with, and while doing this hobby he meets people from time to time. He would usually mention these people in passing, and I'm happy he's happy, so all good. About 6-7 weeks ago, he started to mention at funny times how he was meeting 'great people', and 'so many people to chat to' and 'I know so many people now' while he's doing his hobby and I thought yeah, great, but it was out of tone, and quite odd.

Fast forward a week or so, and he keeps name dropping and then tells me that I have to meet someone (single F28), because I'd really like her, and she does the hobby a bit more than he does, and has done it all over the world and how nice she is etc. and so I found myself meeting her for a few hours across two days, alongside some of her family members, who all knew about my DH and the shared hobby and thought how sweet it was... It was so very odd, and I couldn't put my finger on why, and I was so uncomfortable.

To cut a very long story short, it turns out they've been regularly meeting up since late last year, texting multiple times a day, including gifts and planning things around their hobby... I've since seen most of their messages. I have never seen my DH speak to anyone like he speaks to her (except me). He is a man who I know has strong moral boundaries, and keeps a safe distance from other women, doesn't encourage and is completely platonic with all of his female friends - which is clearly no longer the case! There is no 'sex' chat, and he talks about us occasionally (we have 2DC) but it's overly affectionate/mutual appreciation and excitement for finding each other - and I've hated reading them. (I asked him for phone access after all the minimising he was doing, and he said he'd deleted all messages - but he forgot to remove them from his deleted items, so I restored them. I know this is a massive red flag.)

I've told him that I need him to cut all contact with her - but he had serious meltdown (talk of CS), insists it's just friends and that I should trust him. I am finding this impossible, considering the lengths he's taken to hide her until recently. He hasn't done anything to reduce contact, and has even initiated meeting her multiple times, even though I specifically asked him not to. I know they met today for the hobby, and I know they've text each other, because he is telling me - at my request. But I shouldn't worry, because he loves me blah blah. I just want a bit of respite from it so I can get my head around his utterly bizarre behaviour, and consider everything that's happened. It's so unlike him.

I feel sick. The trust isn't there. I feel anxious all the time. I know what I should be doing, but I don't want him to be unhappy at the same time - especially if it is actually platonic. Thoughts please wise MN women! How do I navigate this shit show?

Unfortunately it stops being about the woman but becomes about his behaviour toward you, which for me would be the deal breaker. Either way I would be done simply because you are no longer a priority, she is. Whether it's sexual, emotional, or just friendship the trust of him holding you closest to his heart and keeping your feelings for him safe, has gone.

I can see it. She believes he's a good decent family man supporting her with her hobby. The idea of fancying him/her is so ridiculous that it hasn't occurred to her, and in this modern world where of course men and women can be friends...

I don't think approaching her yourself will work. Even if she backs off, he will blame and resent you so much that your marriage may be over anyway. He needs to come to the decision to distance himself, or you set a boundary/ walk away.

The crux is you have a marriage that is meant to be built on trust and mutual respect, which he is now violating. Sitting back and monitoring the situation doesn't address that. Try the counselling but I think you need to ask yourself a hard question of where is your hard line if it doesn't prove fruitful.

Somewhere smack bang in the middle. Interested, but not weirdly so - just like it was a nice thing to meet me finally... Definitely not aloof.

Excellent post. Level headed and not throwing the baby out with the bathwater like some on here would clearly do at the first sign of being disrespected.

I ended up in a regular text conversation scenario over a period of months (but not relentlessly or daily, just the odd chat here and there) with a man I'd never met. We were connected through a facebook page relating to a mutual interest and we'd both gone off board to discuss something about the group that we didn't feel we could say on the page itself, for 'political' reasons.

It turned out we had a very specific thing in common and mostly chatted about that, but the chat was always above board.It never got overly personal or too friendly, or breached any boundaries of any sort. And we both regularly mentioned our spouses. There was never any talk of meeting or face timing or any of that stuff.

But once it looked like becoming a semi regular thing, usually triggered by something that had been posted by someone else on the this facebook page which we were itching to discuss off-board, I told my husband about it. I offered to let him see the messages and explained the context, just in case it ever came to light that I'd been 'chatting to a man online' and not been upfront about it.

He didn't look at the messages because he trusts me. Besides, I barely leave the house without him so god knows how I'd fit in an affair, but he appreciated the honesty anyway. I didn't ever want it to look like I'd hidden it from him, just in case the other man's tone ever changed at any point.

Hmmm, still don’t buy it. Maybe it’s just my experience, but good, decent men are few and far between, most are letches.

He's been kind and loving because he wants to think of himself as a good man. He doesnt want to break up the marriage until he's sure he has a replacement lined up. However he might be quite ready for you to break up the marriage.

If the hobby is predominantly carried on by males he may never meet another woman like this one. Is he better at the hobby than her so she learns from him and flatters him in doing so? An ego boost is probably what he is getting from this.

You need to decide whether you still want him or if you now have total ick for him. If so then tell him he needs to leave for being so disrespectful. Your children are nearly grown and if at university/ about to go there then they'll get better loans with only your income taken into account. They, and you, can mange without him and although he doesnt see it yet he has more to lose from this than you do.

If you still want him around take your children along to one of these hobby events. Let her see he has children not much younger than her, that may bring it home to her in a way meeting you has not that he is married and she is risking breaking up a family.

I’m so sorry OP. He’s done something terrible to you by threatening suicide when you’ve asked him to step back from an obsessive and inappropriate relationship with a much younger her woman.

I think you need to ask yourself, if he dropped her tomorrow and stopped the hobby, could you live a happy (or happy enough) life afterwards with him? Could you ever forgive him for doing that to you?

If yes, the next question is if you could live a happy life if you had to speak to her and she backed off? (I personally think this would break the spell between them).

Because I’m afraid that is what you are going to have to do if you want him to stop. He is not going to do it. He is experiencing limerance and it is going to take a long time for it to wear off.

I’m the same age and whilst it would definitely cross my mind I think the fact that I’m only 8 years older than one of his children would make me feel safe.

I'm going to play devil's advocate here - please don't be cross with me! At different times of my life, I've had quite intense friendships with both men and women - and sometimes they're very of the "time and place". Whether it's through eg NCT or a shared work focus or sadness or literally just location (I travelled a lot for work), they've been very, very important to me and I look back on them fondly. They haven't been romantic for me (or the other person, I genuinely believe). I wouldn't be thrilled if DH found himself in that situation, but also I can see that in some situations, it might happen and it wouldn't threaten our relationship. I think humans are complex and definitely sometimes need an emotional connection that for whatever reason isn't available in their relationship at that time. I would honestly let this play out (while getting financial ducks in a row!), and keep communicating with him.

Oh no, it's her. I wouldn't stop the hobby at all.

So your situation is completely different then!

It is the OP’s DH who has “thrown the baby out with the bath water “ by threatening suicide when called out on his deleted messages and obsessive relationship.

Do you mind me asking how long he is doing the hobby, what age did he start it?

He knows it's wrong, he's admitted it unreservedly. He understands how I feel, he is just incapable of being the bad guy to her.

Sorry, so he knows he’s wrong, admitted it but still says he will kill himself rather than stop seeing her?

is he suggesting that he continues the relationship as is with her or that he continues seeing her but completely changes how he interacts with her?

Thank you for this, and I assure you I've been outraged - screamingly so at points. At the moment, I'm contemplating. I am quietly getting my thoughts in order. And you lovely lot are helping me do that. I haven't told anyone yet.

One set of firm boundaries fell apart - I cannot afford to do it a second time.

I am strong enough, I hope. I guess I have to be.

It is my decision at this point, I agree - some posters have said this. It really doesn't matter what he does now, does it. The damage is done, his choice is clear. It's heartbreaking though.

@Blondiebeachbabe So, of ABSOLUTELY no threat to your marriage. How would you feel if she was a stunning 28 year old, who was straight and single? Quite differently I suspect

No, don’t be pathetic. I would feel no differently. My ‘emotional affair’ friend (with whom all the boxes of emotional affair would be ticked) is not gay, is an extremely good looking successful man (much more so than my DH objectively) and unfortunately has physically strayed from his marriage on several occasions as no shortage of takers. Yet, my DH doesn’t feel any differently than I do with his friend who is a lesbian and ‘no threat’ in your terms. Although, I really wonder about that as if anyone is viewed as a ‘threat’ then I really think you have no marriage anyway, that’s the bottom line. Thankfully DH was not pathetic enough to fall for the line you trotted out, which is why I’m with him!

And for the other people going, ‘it’s not the same at all’, Correct, which is exactly what I was pointing out. Because it’s NOT a secret, that’s the difference. Per definition my situation would be an emotional affair, but my point was, if only that, then why care and all this arm waving. And, No, I would never threaten suicide if DH said I couldn’t have contact with my ex-work husband (and I don’t give two fucks if anyone dislikes the term as it’s exactly what it is), as that is weird, controlling and abusive. I would however leave DH in a heartbeat if he ever suggested it, which, while no words have ever been spoken, I’m pretty sure he has been aware of since i first ‘took up’ with my work husband (which was post my marriage).

He just said, he didn't know how to tell me, because I was having a hard time at work, aging parents, a few health issues...

But what was there to tell you!? If there's nothing untoward going on, why on earth the massive song and dance about it?? (Answer: because there IS something untoward going on. That's why he deleted all their messages etc.)

Regarding threatening to CS, there are only two options. Option 1: he is having a mental health crisis - and if so you will contact the local crisis team with him. Option 2 (monumentally more likely, in my opinion): he has threatened this to manipulate you, control you, shut you up and get you back into your box. As others have described, he wants you to be the compliant little wifey who will actually sit by and support him in his relationship with the other woman.

It is NOT NORMAL to hide relationships from your spouse. It is NOT NORMAL to delete all of your messages with your platonic friends. It is NOT NORMAL to threaten to harm yourself when your wife lays down perfectly normal boundaries to protect your marriage.

I would never, ever be able to forgive my husband threatening that in response to my asking him to end an inappropriate relationship. For me, our marriage would actually be over now whatever happens next. If he is not having a mental health crisis then he is a complete shithead who has no respect for you. I couldn't live in a marriage where I was not respected (I'll bet he's now trying to demonstrate that he loves you, but he is not at all showing you any measure of basic respect or even courtesy).

I would sit him down and say, "Steve, we are going to ring mental health services now. We need to get you support for your suicidal thoughts. If you do not need mental health support and were only threatening that to try to make me back off, I have this bag packed for you and I would like you to leave, immediately. I do not wish to remain married to someone who would threaten that in an attempt to force their spouse to allow them to indulge an inappropriate relationship. I am your wife and you vowed that you would forsake all others. Now is the time to put your money where you mouth is (or was). We're ringing mental health services or you're leaving. If you want to stay married you're going to have to start from the ground up toq prove to me that you're worth it, because as things stand I don't want to be married to you any more.'

Best case scenario he leaves, realises the grass isn't greener (shocker) and asks to come back. I would not allow him back for at least a year, during which I would insist he first have individual counselling and then we have couples therapy. You will need to decide if you can forgive a) the affair and b) the threats.

I wouldn't allow things to continue as there are, with him living his comfortable life at home with you whilst simultaneously behaving in ways you have made clear you are extremely unhappy with (because they are threatening the integrity of your marriage). Cheaters are motivated by loss. If he thinks he's losing you, he might snap out of it. If you don't force the issue this will just carry on.

Right now he thinks he's in control and is running round happy as anything like a dog with two dicks. Take the power away from him and assert yourself, make the choice for him. Maybe if he does a complete 180, does extensive work on himself, demonstrates that he understands how awful his behaviour has been and takes steps to reassure you it will never happen again, then you might be able to forgive him.

He needs to stop caring about being the bad guy to her (why would stepping back from their overly intimate relationship make him bad in her eyes anyway?) and start to care much, much more about being a shitty husband to you!

Side note - people who want others to always think well if them often treat their close families really, really badly. My mother is like this towards us sometimes. I have wanted to scream at her to please care a tiny little bit about what WE think of her, and less about randoms on the street.

It sounds like he has formed an infatuation about her bordering on an obsession and I’d be very concerned about that fact he has threatened suicide if he has to stop seeing her.
i would see if he will go to marriage counselling with you but it does sound like he isn’t willing to budge.
Being super affectionate, more so then usual is probably his attempt to manipulating you, so you can’t complain about his other relationship, which is what this is.
im not sure why the other lady hasn’t realised that the whole things is just a bit ‘off’ the level of intensity with another woman’s husband, you would hope someone would have mentioned it to her from her friends/family….

I think we might be going off topic. Even things that are slightly different, are different.

This is clearly different. There is something going on and she is unable to stop him. It’s awful.

Men have female friends particularly at work and doing hobbies I don't know if you have been jealous in the past which would be a reason not to mention having struck up a friendship with a woman. It seems like she is very intrinsically tied up in his enjoyment of his hobby. And he is feeling that you are destroying his happiness by wanting him to give up the friendship which is now a big part of the hobby and by being jealous and sucking the joy out of everything you do together to the point of leading him to suicidal thoughts. You on the other hand feel this woman is a threat to your marriage and relationship. This is all very sad for you both.

It's a shame you can't just think of this woman as a friend (who happens to be female), could you start taking a much bigger interest in the hobby yourself so you are there to see how they interact together and maybe put your mind at rest, otherwise this is likely to end badly, which would be a real shame when you seem to be a very loving couple.

It’s past that now. He is besotted with this woman and won’t give her up. The OP is trying to figure out what to do.

I am so very sorry this happened to you. I can't comprehend it, honestly.

@HoppingPavlova you stated you’re often bamboozled by the term and horror of emotional affairs and MN does the leave leave leave chant.

Your post is nonsensical because you are not having an emotional affair with your friend and neither is your h with his friend. Your relationships with these people are not betrayals. Therefore nobody would say leave.

If you were or if your h was, then leaving would indeed be a valid response.

I think posters are bamboozled as to the point of your post. Is it that neither you or your h are having emotional affairs? Is that you think nobody should leave a relationship if they find their partner is having an emotional affair?

It’s not especially helpful to the op.

Cobblers.