Something isn't right - emotional affair or just friends?

[FourAndFive]

Name changed for this. It's a bit of a blur, and long, apologies in advance.

I need help and/or a slap to either wake me up to an emotional affair and huge gaslighting from my DH (47), or to help me deal with a shiny new friendship my DH of 24 years has.

He's hidden a friendship from me that has been going on for nearly a year. He has never, ever done this before, and has been a completely open book in all our years together. The last five years have been so good for us emotionally, and our relationship felt solid as far as I was concerned.

He has a hobby that he is obsessed (not lightheartedly obsessed, genuinely obsessed) with, and while doing this hobby he meets people from time to time. He would usually mention these people in passing, and I'm happy he's happy, so all good. About 6-7 weeks ago, he started to mention at funny times how he was meeting 'great people', and 'so many people to chat to' and 'I know so many people now' while he's doing his hobby and I thought yeah, great, but it was out of tone, and quite odd.

Fast forward a week or so, and he keeps name dropping and then tells me that I have to meet someone (single F28), because I'd really like her, and she does the hobby a bit more than he does, and has done it all over the world and how nice she is etc. and so I found myself meeting her for a few hours across two days, alongside some of her family members, who all knew about my DH and the shared hobby and thought how sweet it was... It was so very odd, and I couldn't put my finger on why, and I was so uncomfortable.

To cut a very long story short, it turns out they've been regularly meeting up since late last year, texting multiple times a day, including gifts and planning things around their hobby... I've since seen most of their messages. I have never seen my DH speak to anyone like he speaks to her (except me). He is a man who I know has strong moral boundaries, and keeps a safe distance from other women, doesn't encourage and is completely platonic with all of his female friends - which is clearly no longer the case! There is no 'sex' chat, and he talks about us occasionally (we have 2DC) but it's overly affectionate/mutual appreciation and excitement for finding each other - and I've hated reading them. (I asked him for phone access after all the minimising he was doing, and he said he'd deleted all messages - but he forgot to remove them from his deleted items, so I restored them. I know this is a massive red flag.)

I've told him that I need him to cut all contact with her - but he had serious meltdown (talk of CS), insists it's just friends and that I should trust him. I am finding this impossible, considering the lengths he's taken to hide her until recently. He hasn't done anything to reduce contact, and has even initiated meeting her multiple times, even though I specifically asked him not to. I know they met today for the hobby, and I know they've text each other, because he is telling me - at my request. But I shouldn't worry, because he loves me blah blah. I just want a bit of respite from it so I can get my head around his utterly bizarre behaviour, and consider everything that's happened. It's so unlike him.

I feel sick. The trust isn't there. I feel anxious all the time. I know what I should be doing, but I don't want him to be unhappy at the same time - especially if it is actually platonic. Thoughts please wise MN women! How do I navigate this shit show?

Yes the secretive nature of the relationship is the red flag.

We are all permitted to have friendships that meet other emotional needs within us.

I guess it’s the ‘unknown’ which is a problem… What is the OPs husband feeling about this friend of his? You’ll never know that really unless he decides to act on it.

But suspicions have been raised and if the relationship between the OP and her DH is otherwise healthy and the OP is not known for having issues around jealousy and insecurity then the DH should consider the OPs feelings about the relationship and not wish to sacrifice his marriage.

In DH’s case his friend/ex-work wife is a happily married lesbian who is truly revolted by the thought of a relationship with a man

So, of ABSOLUTELY no threat to your marriage. How would you feel if she was a stunning 28 year old, who was straight and single? Quite differently I suspect. 🙄

OP, sorry this is happening. Why not tell him you and he need to attend couples counselling to work through this. I don’t think you should
give up on your marriage until trying this. If he truly wants to sort your marriage then he will agree to it

Obviously your situation is platonic but i absolutely detest the term “work wife / work husband.” I find it quite disrespectful. I have absolutely no problem being close friends with the opposite sex, especially at work, but if my DH referred to a colleague as his “wife” I’d be telling him she can wash his pants and bring up his kids then.

Hang on, have I read this right? When you asked him to stop contact with her he had a meltdown and threatened suicide?

If that’s the case then his behaviour is seriously manipulative and unpleasant. Google “DARVO”. It sounds to me like he knows deep down this is an emotional affair but is trying to twist it to make you feel like you’re the one being unreasonable, like being overly affectionate to you so you can’t claim he’s not being loving. Giving you phone access but deleting the messages first.

If he was apologetic, admitted he had crossed a line and was committed to stopping contact and working on your relationship then I’d say there was a future for you.

However his behaviour is manipulative, deceitful and showing zero respect for your feelings or the marriage. Sorry, OP, but I don’t think there’s anything worth fighting for here.

Would you threaten suicide if your DH asked you to stop seeing your friend though? I get what you're saying, there's nothing wrong in theory with close friendships of the opposite sex. But this is a very clear case of some kind of mid- life crisis for the OP's husband- the secrecy, the intense frequent messages, the suicide threat- its not a normal friendship. The OP needs support to set a hard boundary or her self- esteem will be destroyed

You haven’t grasped the definition of an emotional affair at all.

Because in this case it’s got completely out of hand, you are comparing it to your situation which is in no way the same. This man has threatened suicide when confronted with his feelings for the woman, is that how you would react if your husband started having doubts about the nature of your friendship?

Op, even if the ‘friend’ is not reciprocating your h’s feelings, his own pathetic, embarrassing and shameful behaviour is enough to end your marriage.

What an utter utter prat he is. Threatening cs if he can’t see her?

They do love their drama, these blokes, don’t they? They are so governed by their cocks.

Please try to detach from him. Please see a solicitor. Just for a chat.

Please preserve your dignity. Hold your head up. Find out more about life without him and what you can expect.

He needs a sharp shock to jolt him. It is too late though really. He’s caused so much damage. Dickhead.

I found out another big lie he told about an event coming up, that he wanted to do with her and I said no, under no circumstances is this okay (involved overnight). His response: I am going to CS, there is no point going on - "I am taking everything away from him that I love". So I backed off... He has never mentioned suicide before.

I agree with the posters who have suggested couples therapy, I believe he will do it because he will see it as an opportunity to convince me of the "only friends" title. I am more than up for it.

It is a big gap. I may've mentioned, and other posters have noted - I get the feeling she feels he is safe. She probably has no idea I've been put in this position. If she did, she would stop all contact. His problem is he hates looking like the bad person.

Our DC are 17 and 20.

So the suicide threat is about stopping the hobby, not stopping seeing her?

If he can’t prioritise you over a relationship with another woman (after all he can do this hobby without her) then I would be off.
It’s unfair. Fundamentally unfair to expect you to put up with this.
I had a very good friend, who i still miss, that my DH didn’t like as he knew he is in love with me. I no longer have any contact with him (since finding out about his love for me). I love my DH. Why would I risk that and risk his feelings? Your DH is way out of line imo.

They were just there... And one of them even said - "XXX mentioned she'd met this amazing person, so I just had to meet him (my DH)".

Can someone tell me what CS means?

I think it’s commit suicide.

Putting aside the suicide comment for one moment (although not negating the severity of that), the fact that he's lying in itself is a red flag. Sorry, OP - no advice to offer other than sympathy and concern.

"You are taking everything from me that I love" - so what about you, OP, and your children? Where do you feature in his priorities?

Disagree
I think if someone is disrespecting you, like the ow is, she needs a dose of reality.
To the ow, the wife isn’t real, or an absolute cow … but if you present yourself as real, it certainly burst the romantic bubble.
ive known friends, whose dh’s have gone off with the romantic ow, to be sobbing , yes sobbing down the phone to their wives , to be forgiven/ taken back… a few weeks later …
Best to burst this bubble, before families / children/ lives are torn apart.
This is because ow is bored - a bit of reality , and it will become far too much trouble for ow, and she go find some other gullible fool.

I just think this friendship is inappropriate and he knows that seeing as he's been meeting up with her behind your back and has deleted the messages between them.

He shouldn't be keeping a relationship secret from you which he obviously was doing as there was no mention of her for an entire year. She's obviously very enticing for him, female, 20 years younger, shares the same passions. If you are in a committed relationship, these would all be signals to stay well clear because the risk of developing feeling is very high.

So sorry that you’ve got to deal with this OP.
Sometimes people get carried away with mad infatuations, and convince themselves (and try to convince others) that it’s just an innocent lovely friendship. I’m sure, however, that if your DH pauses and digs deep down he will know that it’s not appropriate for him to be doing and feeling all this. That’s the word I would use with him - ‘appropriate’. It’s not appropriate to have such an intensity of feeling for someone else when you’re married. It’s also disrespectful to you as his
wife. If you point this out to him as calmly as you can, then I hope your DH can see sense and admit he’s in the wrong. Then there could be a chance of saving your marriage. It sounds like you and him had a good and healthy relationship before. x

This reply nails it for me.

I wouldn't be interested in counselling to hear the justifications for acting the way he has, even if he stops, and especially not if he's still looking for a way to 'have you both'.

The suicide threat sums the whole thing up. Either he is deliberately insanely manipulative or he is genuinely saying that he would rather die than be without a relationship with her while being perfectly prepared to lose his relationship with you,his romantic partner of 24 years, in order to maintain his "platonic" one with her.

I don't think there is anywhere to go after that except out of the door.

It may be a short, sharp shock that brings him to his senses, but I'm not sure I could go back after this anyway - he's shown you he is weak, untrustworthy and unable to live you wholeheartedly and properly.

Alternatively he may then go and try it on with this young woman / continue to play the long game of excessive contact, unencumbered by wife and family. If successful, that will play out (likely not well, but the timeline could vary). If unsuccessful, you may never hear about it and he may then come crawling back as per scenario one.

Any scenario will come with a huge side helping of how unreasonable you are for 'tearing the family apart' over 'nothing'.

You're not and it's not.

Don't contact this girl. Her motivations and actions (even if she immediately backed off, horrified) are completely irrelevant to your assessment of your husband and whether you really want to spend your life with someone who will treat you like this.

I'm sorry. Good luck.

His problem is he hates looking like a bad person? That’s his problem? He has far far bigger problems than that.

Op, he is taking the piss out of you. Where s your outrage?

He wanted to stay overnight at his hobby and kicked off because you said no? Bloody hell. He is fucking her or at the very least has every intention of doing so.

And her family member commented about having to meet this amazing man (your dh) is really revealing.

Don't get me wrong, I have absolutely no time for people (OW or OM) who have affairs, but for the OP this woman is completely irrelevant to whether she chooses to stay married after this.

Let's say she contacts this woman and is successful in stopping this in its tracks: the two main questions still remain:

1. Do you really want to live the rest of your life with someone this weak, stupid and selfish; and
2. How long until the next one?

He sounds like an over dramatic 13 year old treating you like his mum. Such an ick.

Yep, also nailed it!

I agree with most the other posters - she probably sees him as an awesome platonic friend (I have/have had close work friendships with people I spent so much time with I arguably saw them more awake than their other halves did but that were completely platonic relationships on both sides even though I would genuinely say I love them (in a platonic way), and where there was a reasonable age gap they were almost paternal relationships/ in other cases quite fraternal). However, we would rarely see each other outside a work situation and no way would they even briefly consider prioritising me over their actual family never mind the suicide stuff. He definitely does not see her in a platonic way. He's completely obsessed if he would threaten suicide when you demand cutting the relationship off.

I'd do what one of the posters suggested and sit him down calmly and explain how insane this is. He has hidden this intense relationship from you for a year, deleted text messages to hide what he was saying to her, told you his life is not worth living without her - and then expects you to believe that this is a normal friendship. No one would see this is a normal friendship. It is an obsession not a friendship, and one she may well not return. However, if his obsession with his friend is so vital to his mental health then he should prioritise his mental health and leave the marital home, start the process for a divorce and explain to his children why he is blowing up the family - he can then continue the friendship all he likes. If he doesn't want to do that, he stops seeing her / communicating with her (you're happy to explain why he has stopped yourself if he prefers that over having to explain to her himself) and you go to counselling to start to rebuild trust that both the secrecy and the insane suicide threats/gaslighting he has done later have broken and hopefully allow him to face up to how he almost ruined his otherwise pretty great life.