Something isn't right - emotional affair or just friends?

[FourAndFive]

Name changed for this. It's a bit of a blur, and long, apologies in advance.

I need help and/or a slap to either wake me up to an emotional affair and huge gaslighting from my DH (47), or to help me deal with a shiny new friendship my DH of 24 years has.

He's hidden a friendship from me that has been going on for nearly a year. He has never, ever done this before, and has been a completely open book in all our years together. The last five years have been so good for us emotionally, and our relationship felt solid as far as I was concerned.

He has a hobby that he is obsessed (not lightheartedly obsessed, genuinely obsessed) with, and while doing this hobby he meets people from time to time. He would usually mention these people in passing, and I'm happy he's happy, so all good. About 6-7 weeks ago, he started to mention at funny times how he was meeting 'great people', and 'so many people to chat to' and 'I know so many people now' while he's doing his hobby and I thought yeah, great, but it was out of tone, and quite odd.

Fast forward a week or so, and he keeps name dropping and then tells me that I have to meet someone (single F28), because I'd really like her, and she does the hobby a bit more than he does, and has done it all over the world and how nice she is etc. and so I found myself meeting her for a few hours across two days, alongside some of her family members, who all knew about my DH and the shared hobby and thought how sweet it was... It was so very odd, and I couldn't put my finger on why, and I was so uncomfortable.

To cut a very long story short, it turns out they've been regularly meeting up since late last year, texting multiple times a day, including gifts and planning things around their hobby... I've since seen most of their messages. I have never seen my DH speak to anyone like he speaks to her (except me). He is a man who I know has strong moral boundaries, and keeps a safe distance from other women, doesn't encourage and is completely platonic with all of his female friends - which is clearly no longer the case! There is no 'sex' chat, and he talks about us occasionally (we have 2DC) but it's overly affectionate/mutual appreciation and excitement for finding each other - and I've hated reading them. (I asked him for phone access after all the minimising he was doing, and he said he'd deleted all messages - but he forgot to remove them from his deleted items, so I restored them. I know this is a massive red flag.)

I've told him that I need him to cut all contact with her - but he had serious meltdown (talk of CS), insists it's just friends and that I should trust him. I am finding this impossible, considering the lengths he's taken to hide her until recently. He hasn't done anything to reduce contact, and has even initiated meeting her multiple times, even though I specifically asked him not to. I know they met today for the hobby, and I know they've text each other, because he is telling me - at my request. But I shouldn't worry, because he loves me blah blah. I just want a bit of respite from it so I can get my head around his utterly bizarre behaviour, and consider everything that's happened. It's so unlike him.

I feel sick. The trust isn't there. I feel anxious all the time. I know what I should be doing, but I don't want him to be unhappy at the same time - especially if it is actually platonic. Thoughts please wise MN women! How do I navigate this shit show?

And that was helpful. Sigh. Not

Well it worked out alright for you didn’t it. It just illustrates that you husband has form for it so he’s hardly a catch is he

I’m sorry. It this “advice” is laughable

Well you would say that, because that’s what your husband did for you isn’t it? Couldn’t have given a fuck about his then partner so long as he could stay ‘friends’ with you. Ultimatums do work. When the person you’re giving them to actually gives a shit.

It's good that you have your DC's support, OP - I know this is a situation that you don't want to be in (to put it mildly), but knowing your DC are behind you has to be reassuring.

I haven't kept up to date with all of the latest posts on here, but it beggars belief that your DH hasn't offered to give up his friendship, or even his hobby for the sake of saving the marriage, and that the 28 y.o. hasn't voluntarily backed away from your DH.

@Athreedoorwardrobe , Congratulations, you've bagged yourself a 'My ex is a psycho'.

@Nachoinseachthu , OLD is probably the last thing on OP's mind right now, and seeing as OP is married she's not going to be in a hurry to find a father figure for her 20-yr old and 17-yr old.

Damn sight easier to be a single parent than being betrayed and then wondering, waiting for the next betrayal.

Hopefully @FourAndFivewill find her way and not let daft rationales like this one be the reason she stays with her h.

@olderandwiser83 says it perfectly.

I think sending him away could be playing into his fantasy at the moment. I bet he thinks that it’s perfect timing to be separated and going through marital problems just prior to going away with her. How convenient he gets to cry on her shoulder and play out the fantasy where he again is the victim. He will think he can come back with his tail between his legs and work on your relationship after he’s explored his ‘friendship’ further. He will still think he is in control because he has the trump card — when he’s ready he can tell you he won’t see her anymore and it will all go back to normal. He can’t see now that he is destroying your future one step at a time.

I would give him the ultimatum — it is his choice whether he goes away with her but if he does he should spend the time talking about their future and not your relationship because there will be nothing left to save and you will progress with divorce. Tell him that your mental health is as important as his and he is destroying yours and you won’t tolerate his behaviour anymore.

Hi OP,

Just wanted to offer my support. I was in your situation around February time and it's not been easy. My DH had been acting strangely from Oct - Dec of last year and I became suspicious. We've been together 8 years and in all that time, he was 100% romantic, dedicated and never wanted anyone but me. We spent so much time in each other's company, but I wasn't keen on moving in together. We'd been on holiday a few times and although I love him, living together was something I didn't want for me (or my two teenage kids).

I thought I'd give it a try and test the living situation, so he moved in last July and all was well, until that Oct - Dec period. He would go out some evenings and would always be on his phone. He was still committed and we had a wild sex life, but there was just something 'off'. In February, his phone was unlocked and I just wanted to know for sure. I had NEVER not trusted him and had never snooped, but I just wanted to make sure I wasn't going mad.

His phone was full of Whatsapp messages with a woman he was working with. A woman who, for two years, he had been meeting up with on days out and who (at first) had apparently 'just been friends'.

I confronted him and he denied everything initially, until I showed evidence I knew. He told me he befriended her, because she needed help at work and things 'weren't going well with us'. After getting to know her, he apparently didn't want to be more than friends, but she did. Like an idiot who seemed to love the attention, he decided to continue with their friendship and hid it from me. Then they kissed after a meal one evening and he got cold feet the next day. Some months went by where there was minimal contact and fast forward to Oct last year, he started up the friendship again, kissing her again around Christmas.

I was told the usual. He enjoyed her company, she wasn't judgemental, she was sooooo nice and offered him a life he ultimately turned down because he 'loved me' (and ended up choosing me, so I should have been grateful). We went to therapy, but I never got over it. During therapy, I felt the onus was on me to make changes and whilst he was VERY dedicated to making things better, I just never got over the fact that this 'friendship' spanned over so many years. Right under my nose. He had convinced himself it was just friendship, despite admitting they kissed. To this day, he still corrects me when I state they were more than friends.

He did cut ties with her and (after some snooping), I can see the evidence of an email he sent to her explaining his regret in ever being part of her life. He has also left his job and works elsewhere.

But the trust has gone and I've decided to leave him. He has threatened suicide so many times, but I just don't see him in the same way.

Please note, OP, that my DH INSISTED it was just friends. I was drip fed information over months about the kissing. He lied through his teeth until he felt comfortable I was going to take each nugget of information well. He also protected her - when I hit the roof, he made it clear I was NOT to contact her and ask questions. My therapist agreed that confronting this OW would be considered harassment, so I went against every vengeful atom in my body not to seek her out. Even now, writing this, I am so angry about what they did - I often fantasise about how to get my revenge. But it would get me nowhere - probably the nearest jail.

So I am walking away now. Silently for the time being, but I am leaving.

Op is doing exactly the right thing.
She is showing what a strong woman she is.

OP, you said he’s gone away at the moment, but where has he gone? Apologies if I have missed something

You do actually need to read the thread, WTAF are you on about, just dont comment if you cant be bothered to read the thread and take your problem chat elsewhere! You have not helped OP so sod off!

Agreed! I'm glad you've got such a forthright person in your corner and your kids all understand and support you.. that will give you strenght. (he has utterly betrayed them too btw, but they are wise enough to recognise they have a parent they can rely on.}
Some great advice on this thread.
I also hope you will all have an enjoyable bank holiday with out having to look at Poor Me's Pity Me's long face as he tries to go through all the reasons why his hobby friend is so important.
Wishing you all the best OP.

@DianeC2020 - I hope things work out well for you now you have made that decision.

FWIW the threats of suicide are in the "deadbeat man's book of what next to say". I have heard this so many times it is ridiculous. My ex said it, sadly 15 years later he is still alive.

Horrendous situation OP. Feel for you and DC. I cannot believe he threatened suicide. Under the circumstances and appreciate he may have been serious seems also by design or default a really manipulative act.
He is hugely in the wrong, you’ve outlined the impact on you his Wife, asked that he stop but then he pulls that!?
I’d of told him do not even go there. To think you’d put our DC through all that pain, ruin their lives just because you’re unwilling to give up a ‘friend’ is absolutely ridiculous.
That’s not friendship level connection but something much much deeper. They’re both complicit and just hoping you can be extra kind to yourself as you navigate this.

My ex would threaten suicide. Not only that but he told me, more than once, just exactly how he would kill himself.

For a while, every time I turned into my road in the car, I dreaded seeing a police car outside my house, because I honestly felt he was stupid enough to do it, just to spite me.

I was also terrified of how I'd explain it to my daughter (from a previous relationship). The last thing I wanted was for her to grow up thinking that suicide was one way out of a difficult situation.

It was, quite frankly, a hellish time.

So I do understand, OP, how difficult this is for you.

The upside is that I eventually called his bluff as we split up. Many years later he's still alive and on wife number 4 (or maybe more, we're not in contact so I haven't kept a close count!)

Hello OP,

Just checking in. I am sure it must be overwhelming reading all of the responses and although many are very helpful, some are possibly not. For what it's worth, I don't think this has to be the end of your marraige at all. But whatever happens next, it won't be your fault. You must remember that. It is not you that has prioritised a person you have known for a year over your husband of many years. It is not you who has deceived your husband about this person and it is not you that is causing immense emotional and mental harm because of your irrational desire to put this 'friendship' above all else.

The facts are that your husband lied about this friendship, he would say he didn't but not telling you about it for such a long time is lying. It is lying by omission but it is still lying. And in doing so, he has further proved that it is not the innocent scenario he wants you to believe.

I think it is very likely it hasn't crossed the boundaries into an affair yet, we can never know 100% of course as other posters have said but I am as sure I can be that my husbands didn't. However, I will always question whether if she had made the move, he would have crossed that boundary too, We can never know for sure.

What you do know is that your husband is prioritising a recent friendship with another woman over your long marriage and many happy years together. He is putting his selfish desire to cling on to this woman over your happiness and mental stability and your children's happiness. It is appallingly selfish behaviour.

As I said before, they have to paint you as the bad one. 'If only she stopped all this fuss we would be fine!'. If they don't, they must accept the pain and hurt they have caused and the shame of having let down their family and shown themselves to others to be less than perfect. In the midst of it, that is too high a price to pay.

I believe the only way to cut through that is to utterly disengage and take a party line: DH you have lied to me about this friendship, you concealed it from me for a long period of time, you have overstepped the boundaries in going away with this woman together, you have said you cannot give up something you 'love', you have said you would rather die and remove yourself from your children's lives than give up something you are still insisting on naming a friendship. Your behaviour is extreme and you are showing no self-awareness and no empathy for the damage you have caused. Until you do so, I will not engage further with you about this.

Someone else mentioned upthread about policing your partner's actions. I don't agree with the sentiment they used that in but I do agree with the this. I have had to learn this post-emotional affair/inappropriate friendship. He may do it again and I can't spend my life worrying about it, I can only control what I do in response. That is all you can do too, he knows how much he has hurt you and his actions in the coming days, weeks and months will show you what you must do.

Either way, this is all so unfair. A week ago or more, you thought your life together was steady and stable and he has thrown a grenade into the middle of it.It is him who has done this and you do not bear any responsibility. Sending hugs!

Op I’m so sorry that you are going through this!

Some really great support in this thread for you in terms of navigating and bolstering you I think.

I really hope he is shocked eventually by his behaviour and you can perhaps navigate this and if not, know that you can build a wonderful life of your own!

I don’t disagree. I just think she needs to be prepared that he will use this time away to further his agenda and it might not be the wake up call she is hoping for. She needs to be resolute in what her red lines are and stick to them because he has very little respect for her at the moment.

Long term there is very little hope of him having a happy relationship with this OW but if @FourAndFive lets him he will destroy in the process. She needs to put herself first and it can’t be a threat but a determination to do so.

The op has a responsibility to keep taking the action she's already started.

Agree!!

She doesn't have a responsibility to do anything actually, none of this is her fault. I don't know if you have been in this position, I haven't read all of your posts, but it is such a shock. Just getting through the day and finding out basic information she needs to know is enough at this stage, Her husband has had a whole year to hamster away his justifications for everything he has done, she has had what a week? Days?

Disengaging is a fine strategy at this point as talking to him isn't working anyway as he is entrenched in his own fantasy.

I agree also and it is very telling that your children, of their own accord, have such clear morales that they have seen through your husbands delusions too.

Totally unacceptable keeping it secret. He obviously knew itis in appropriate behaviour for a married man. I think she means a lot to him otherwise why be devastated if he ended the friendship?
Difficult to know how she feels. Seems odd introducing you to her family.
But she is a threat to your marriage whether she means to be or not. Give him an ultimatum.

The support on this thread is Mumsnet at its best. Wisdom gained through pain, heartache, deceit and life experience.

I wish I knew of Mumsnet when my mega relationship disrupted 20 years ago. Even reading today, snippets of memories suddenly make sense.

Posts invariably lead to an expectation of an instant decision from OP. I read and saved the following info the other day but didn’t save the author unfortunately so cannot credit them but it resonated with me and explains why the process takes time, so I’m posting it here as reflection for those who may be feeling frustrated with timescales:

“No one can talk you into leaving somebody quickly. Your soul leaves first but your heart still hopes, your head rationalises even though their apologies stop soothing, the patterns stop surprising. Sometimes you need to try again to know it won’t work again, to learn that they won’t change just because you love them harder or give them more time.”