Something isn't right - emotional affair or just friends?

[FourAndFive]

Name changed for this. It's a bit of a blur, and long, apologies in advance.

I need help and/or a slap to either wake me up to an emotional affair and huge gaslighting from my DH (47), or to help me deal with a shiny new friendship my DH of 24 years has.

He's hidden a friendship from me that has been going on for nearly a year. He has never, ever done this before, and has been a completely open book in all our years together. The last five years have been so good for us emotionally, and our relationship felt solid as far as I was concerned.

He has a hobby that he is obsessed (not lightheartedly obsessed, genuinely obsessed) with, and while doing this hobby he meets people from time to time. He would usually mention these people in passing, and I'm happy he's happy, so all good. About 6-7 weeks ago, he started to mention at funny times how he was meeting 'great people', and 'so many people to chat to' and 'I know so many people now' while he's doing his hobby and I thought yeah, great, but it was out of tone, and quite odd.

Fast forward a week or so, and he keeps name dropping and then tells me that I have to meet someone (single F28), because I'd really like her, and she does the hobby a bit more than he does, and has done it all over the world and how nice she is etc. and so I found myself meeting her for a few hours across two days, alongside some of her family members, who all knew about my DH and the shared hobby and thought how sweet it was... It was so very odd, and I couldn't put my finger on why, and I was so uncomfortable.

To cut a very long story short, it turns out they've been regularly meeting up since late last year, texting multiple times a day, including gifts and planning things around their hobby... I've since seen most of their messages. I have never seen my DH speak to anyone like he speaks to her (except me). He is a man who I know has strong moral boundaries, and keeps a safe distance from other women, doesn't encourage and is completely platonic with all of his female friends - which is clearly no longer the case! There is no 'sex' chat, and he talks about us occasionally (we have 2DC) but it's overly affectionate/mutual appreciation and excitement for finding each other - and I've hated reading them. (I asked him for phone access after all the minimising he was doing, and he said he'd deleted all messages - but he forgot to remove them from his deleted items, so I restored them. I know this is a massive red flag.)

I've told him that I need him to cut all contact with her - but he had serious meltdown (talk of CS), insists it's just friends and that I should trust him. I am finding this impossible, considering the lengths he's taken to hide her until recently. He hasn't done anything to reduce contact, and has even initiated meeting her multiple times, even though I specifically asked him not to. I know they met today for the hobby, and I know they've text each other, because he is telling me - at my request. But I shouldn't worry, because he loves me blah blah. I just want a bit of respite from it so I can get my head around his utterly bizarre behaviour, and consider everything that's happened. It's so unlike him.

I feel sick. The trust isn't there. I feel anxious all the time. I know what I should be doing, but I don't want him to be unhappy at the same time - especially if it is actually platonic. Thoughts please wise MN women! How do I navigate this shit show?

So you would overlook the lying, the cheating and the gaslighting and manipulation? No woman should feel they have to put up with that, but on Mumsnet the bar is often set extremely low by women as to what minimum basic decency they will accept from a man. Very sad! 😠

I put my first ever thread up last Friday
I was ghosted & feeling shit about myself ..
The women of Mumsnet really helped me with their kind words & advice 👌☺️

Well done on the solicitor OP, and fingers crossed he’s moved out to give you the space you need.

I notice that you said now isn’t the time to tell your parents, because of their ill health. I strongly suggest you tell them. They know more than you think. They will cope. They need to know. You need them to know. His parents too. You’ll be waiting forever for the right time. OP, it’s now. I know you’re reluctant and I think partly it’s because it makes it real, I get it. Tell everyone, shine a great big light on all the grubby behaviour, you’ll feel better, promise.

Ignore stuff about private investigators, going to the event, you don’t need any of this fluff and nonsense. He’s screwed up, he continues to screw up, let him. Stay true to yourself. Take care.

There are some threads on here that are entertaining, some are sad, some make me curious to know more. But this is one of the kind that appears in smaller numbers, that makes me so bloody angry I can't read it late at night because it'll keep me awake! The audacity of this snake of a husband is off the scale! How dare he carry on like this and threaten you, threaten you with suicide if you don't give his creepy dalliance your blessing!?!? If that didn't raise my bp enough he then tries to bring your DF onside by blaming you for your lack of .. what? patience? understanding? I don't care how in love with him you once were, what a good husband he may (or may not) have been previously, he is now the lowest of the low with his "oh woe is me, you're forcing me to end it all".

You, as a good mum, woman, human, wife are worth a million of him and his type. If he dares to threaten suicide again tell him he's already making his own decisions in this marriage, so he won't get any input from you on this one.

I probably should add, we've had a suicide in this family so I am not making light of it, but using it as a threat to put you back in your box is utterly unforgivable.

You're with so much more, sending strength and support.

Sad isnt it that YOU dont want to involve YOUR parents due to their health issues, but HE has no such care and consideration and merrily brought it up with your dad.

Selfish bastard

God, what a sad, sad little cliché he is. Stay strong OP. I recommend the cold approach.

You are doing so well OP, proud of you!

The husband isn't on here asking for advice is he? Of course you'd say that to him if he was.
And actually I was suggesting the woman back off as that would be a natural consequence of befriending her.. that she would become more aware of the issue she was causing and withdraw.
But unfortunately you can't get people to do what they don't want to do. You can't enforce boundaries on someone who won't accept them.
Your only option is to separate or accept that that's how they are and navigate the situation somehow.
Clearly the OP has made the choice to end things which I totally think is a good idea.
I don't know why I'm getting flack for stating my opinion about ultimatums regarding friendships.
I just do not think they work at all. They make things worse.

Hey op I hope he’s gone when you get home did he not threaten cs? Or is this only if he loses his friend and not his wife and kids.

What an awful bitch she is. Booking a night away with a married man. I am so glad I read this thread. It’s an eye opener for me.

I don’t think staying in her marriage, if she decides to, is necessarily ‘overlooking’ or ‘accepting’ any of it.
It’s clear major changes need to happen one way or another.
As far as I can see so far OP’s standards for what she expects aren’t set low at all.
Not everyone who doesn’t want to end their marriage has turned a blind eye or overlooked anything. It’s a huge task for him though if he’s still so deluded about his actions and thinks it’s ok to manipulate in this way.

Just want to say you sound lovely OP 🌹

So, he would rather leave than give up a friendship? He is delusional if he thinks anyone is going to believe he is only friends with her. What a fool he is to throw away his marriage like this.

Dear OP, so sorry you are going through this but it sounds reading through to the end that you are finding your way out, it is admirable.
The rock in throat especially in the context described caught my eye
That feeling in your throat is not unusual and in my experience almost always it is repressed anger that wants your attention. Be kind to yourself and try and welcome your anger, it is their for a reason. Remember this, anger is a healthy normal emotion, people tend to avoid it because it is associated with certain behaviours. If you cannot manage on your own, it is hard, seek a good therapist, it will be well worth it.
I wish you the very best and I hope you will heal and rebuild a good life that you deserve. sending you hugs

I agree with pp who said tell your parents the truth, I would be very upset if my adult DD had kept quiet, after all it didn't bother your H, as you know it was very manipulative of him.

In time you'll look back on this time and know you did the right thing. I tried to forgive but you always wonder what's in their head and whether they're messaging. I eventually got brave like you and I've never been happier. It was like a weight had lifted. I got stronger and met someone amazing. I wish you all the best x

OP you are handling this like a star. I can’t believe what a cunt your H is being. He definitely doesn’t deserve you and you deserve better.

I like the cut of her jib!

We all need friends like that

Obviously that's the case. Seems he agreed to leave the marital home without self harm threats. Says it all. Realistic is best tbh

I think it also answers the question she’s more than a friend. I’m not sure if your angry enough yet but I would tell him to go and be with his friend because that’s where he wants to be and you start the ball rolling on a divorce I think he will be shocked at how fast you can move things along. He’s not going to give her up but f it was me I would like the control of giving him his marching orders.

Hi OP, I've read most of your thread and felt like I had to share my 0.02 as I went through something similar (not to this extent) with my DW in our early 30's. I wasn't nearly as attached as your DH is, but looking back it wasn't an appropriate relationship though at the time felt totally fine.

I worked with a woman who was very flirtatious and attractive, but I was very much in love with my wife so didn't see an issue as I would never do anything. A group of 6 of us developed a close friendship and would often have lunch together, though communication outside work was limited. She would occasionally call / text but I intuitively felt that was starting to cross a line so would be a bit aloof.

My wife definitely caught on with all the mentionitis about my new friend and of course grew suspicious. I can tell you what was going through my head at that time:

1. I really did like (platonically) this woman as we had a similar mindset, a lot in common and had a lot of fun at work (along with the other group of people)
2. I realized that I found her attractive to some degree, but wasn't interested in taking it further
3. I convinced myself that I could walk the rope of being platonic friends
4. At a later point (shortly before I left that job), she made a fairly obvious yet nonchalant 'pass' at me that kind of freaked me out (mid meeting we were sitting next to each other and our manager that we hated did something stupid so I nudged her with my leg for her to notice and she ran her leg up and down my shin slowly)... I wasn't looking for more so excused myself, but for whatever reason it didn't ring alarm bells to terminate this friendship or dial it back - I was still the good and moral man who knew his boundaries
5. This was a point of contention between my wife and I (she didn't know about the pass) and looking back I was playing mental gymnastics to justify this. I mean, I wasn't looking for anything more so what was the big deal here, right? Why can't she just trust me

Today, being a bit wiser I know I was playing with fire - we were juggling two young kids and it was a difficult time, and all it would take would be a shitty few weeks that could have tipped the balance of everything.

I think your husband is being a very foolish and has convinced himself this is totally fine, but to threaten suicide, even in hyperbolic, should show him logically that something is off. He is risking throwing everything away for a fantasy he is indulging. In some deep part of himself he has 100% fantasized about being with her and he is blinded to the fact that real life is never as wonderful as our fantasies. If he can play out the fantasy to reality what will happen? He will leave you (or you him), they will get together, have kids, babies + diapers + living together and the fantasy will bring him full circle back to reality... and he will have to live with the fact that he threw away a good marriage and probably the respect of his kids to indulge his ego and make him feel young.

I wish I could talk some sense into him - men pride themselves on being logical but right now, no matter how good and amazing he thinks this friendship is, is it really worth the risk of losing the life he has been building with you? Fine, marriages can grow stale (every marriage has the dull periods), but like anything they need to be invested in - if he is spending all this time chatting and thinking about her by default he will be neglecting you and your marriage.

I hope he realizes that no friendship / hobby is worth throwing that away, but right now he is likely so deep in his fantasy world that it will take an earthquake to wake him up. For what it's worth, I think you sound like a great person and I'm wishing the strength and clarity to rattle him enough out of this so he will come to his senses

When men are having a mid-life crisis they are deluded into thinking that they can have everything they want. They aren’t necessarily thinking about having to make hard choices, they are thinking of a fantasy that does not and cannot exist where they have control of everything. You are taking the rug from under his feet by setting a boundary. He won’t like it at all - he is still wanting his fantasy - he will try to tell himself that he is right and you are being mean.

You won’t be able to reason with him so you need to take control of the reins. He’s behaving erratically so you have to behave rationally and logically. Protect yourself. Put yourself first. Don’t tell him what you are doing or what your plans are. Be kind only to yourself. He doesn’t deserve your sympathy.

In the end I told my DH to do what he wants and made it clear that I would get on with my life without him in it because quite frankly I didn’t want the drama and ridiculousness of it. I was exhausted by it all. He was welcome to the drama.

I haven’t read every comment, but it sounds @FourAndFive that you’re moving towards leaving him.

Are you sure? Are you sure this isn’t a war you could possibly win?

My views are coloured bc I’m a widow, and so far still single since the death of my partner. So I’m acutely aware how hard it is to be a single parent (albeit no EOW respite, which you would have). You can’t ever find a new birth father for your children; apparently the OLD scene is more of a snake pit than ever; and bringing a step dad into the home - if you somehow find the time to get to know someone properly - is fraught with risks.

It sounds like you’re sure. I’ve never been in your situation, and plenty of wise women on here have. Just be sure you’re sure. Your H would end up dumped, regretful and bitter soon enough. Don’t let a LTB ducks-in-a-row frenzy sway you when you’re still on the battlefield.

Kids are 17 and 20 so she'll be fine, no EOW respite needed.

It sounds like you’re sure. I’ve never been in your situation, and plenty of wise women on here have. Just be sure you’re sure. Your H would end up dumped, regretful and bitter soon enough. Don’t let a LTB ducks-in-a-row frenzy sway you when you’re still on the battlefield.

I think the husband needs to see what he stands to lose.

And I agree with the OP, his behaviour has undermined their whole relationship and the feelings she had/has for him. She’ll be in a much stronger place by taking these steps than if she just waits for him to do whatever he wants to do.