Something isn't right - emotional affair or just friends?

[FourAndFive]

Name changed for this. It's a bit of a blur, and long, apologies in advance.

I need help and/or a slap to either wake me up to an emotional affair and huge gaslighting from my DH (47), or to help me deal with a shiny new friendship my DH of 24 years has.

He's hidden a friendship from me that has been going on for nearly a year. He has never, ever done this before, and has been a completely open book in all our years together. The last five years have been so good for us emotionally, and our relationship felt solid as far as I was concerned.

He has a hobby that he is obsessed (not lightheartedly obsessed, genuinely obsessed) with, and while doing this hobby he meets people from time to time. He would usually mention these people in passing, and I'm happy he's happy, so all good. About 6-7 weeks ago, he started to mention at funny times how he was meeting 'great people', and 'so many people to chat to' and 'I know so many people now' while he's doing his hobby and I thought yeah, great, but it was out of tone, and quite odd.

Fast forward a week or so, and he keeps name dropping and then tells me that I have to meet someone (single F28), because I'd really like her, and she does the hobby a bit more than he does, and has done it all over the world and how nice she is etc. and so I found myself meeting her for a few hours across two days, alongside some of her family members, who all knew about my DH and the shared hobby and thought how sweet it was... It was so very odd, and I couldn't put my finger on why, and I was so uncomfortable.

To cut a very long story short, it turns out they've been regularly meeting up since late last year, texting multiple times a day, including gifts and planning things around their hobby... I've since seen most of their messages. I have never seen my DH speak to anyone like he speaks to her (except me). He is a man who I know has strong moral boundaries, and keeps a safe distance from other women, doesn't encourage and is completely platonic with all of his female friends - which is clearly no longer the case! There is no 'sex' chat, and he talks about us occasionally (we have 2DC) but it's overly affectionate/mutual appreciation and excitement for finding each other - and I've hated reading them. (I asked him for phone access after all the minimising he was doing, and he said he'd deleted all messages - but he forgot to remove them from his deleted items, so I restored them. I know this is a massive red flag.)

I've told him that I need him to cut all contact with her - but he had serious meltdown (talk of CS), insists it's just friends and that I should trust him. I am finding this impossible, considering the lengths he's taken to hide her until recently. He hasn't done anything to reduce contact, and has even initiated meeting her multiple times, even though I specifically asked him not to. I know they met today for the hobby, and I know they've text each other, because he is telling me - at my request. But I shouldn't worry, because he loves me blah blah. I just want a bit of respite from it so I can get my head around his utterly bizarre behaviour, and consider everything that's happened. It's so unlike him.

I feel sick. The trust isn't there. I feel anxious all the time. I know what I should be doing, but I don't want him to be unhappy at the same time - especially if it is actually platonic. Thoughts please wise MN women! How do I navigate this shit show?

Yes, it's all about them and what they want isn't it! They don't seem to realise that their wives could choose to leave them. It's like everyone else is just a cast member in their story, rather than an actual autonomous person. Narcissism.

No OP is not similar to my DH ex at all.. I'm just saying that from personal experience putting friendships under threat can heighten the situation. And it doesn't achieve anything.
I mean i agree with PP that really if you are that unhappy about this all you can do is end the marriage at this point.
But if that's not what she wants to do, in my personal opinion it would be best to befriend the woman rather than make ultimatums about contact with her. It can create drama and romance where there wouldn't necessarily have been any.

But even if this overnight rendezvous house goes ahead....they're going to be alone together, sharing dinner and drinks and being close to a bedroom....how is that normal in any normals person friendship handbook given he's older, married and has kids

If they're unmarried, post uni and still experimenting with whose who for them....but they aren't in that grey area anymore

tell him that if he goes on the weekend away your marriage is over, and he need not come back. His decision.

Something needs to happen to bring this to a head, or the OP will still be in the same position at Christmas, with her DH wanting to spend Christmas Day with his “friend”

tell him that if he goes on the weekend away your marriage is over, and he need not come back. His decision.

Something needs to happen to bring this to a head, or the OP will still be in the same position at Christmas, with her DH wanting to spend Christmas Day with his “friend”

I'm not embarrassed funnily enough, I'm utterly gobsmacked, jaw open, cannot believe it. However, I feel very confident in my position and I would tell it to everyone if I had to. I have started to, so we're getting somewhere.

And I am listening, I promise, but I don't want to cry when I speak - in anger or sadness - just not there yet. Nearly.

Shenanigans is such a good word by the way!

You are not helping at all with your posts. Lots of marriages are saved by ultimatums, and one partner realising they are behaving badly.
This is not helpful to OP, you clearly have a different agenda for posting.
I hope your husbands ex moved on and found someone worthy, you also need to jog on, off this thread.

If I’ve understood you correctly OP, you have begun to tell people?

If so, I think that is a really great step.

Sunlight is what this needs and hopefully other people’s reactions that this is inappropriate will make you feel stronger.

I think you're amazing OP... The rug has been pulled from under you. All that was safe is no more. You are a strong amazing woman. You're listening and gaining your strength... It takes as long as it takes...but you will soon be able to find your words and say what needs to be said... It's coming. And we are here when it does.
In your own time ♥️

I agree.
Separating from a cheating (that's what ops dh is doing) spouse brings clarity all around.
It allows the betrayed spouse the space to focus on themselves and view the situation clearly. It allows the cheating spouse to see what they are losing.
The attention gained from an affair is like a drug and while it feels like they can both their fix and their family where is the incentive to change anything?
Not having space from a cheating spouse also puts the betrayed into situation where to the cheater they sound all negative and full of aggravation where the ap gets to be in the position of supportive 'friend' and providing positivity and affection that the betrayed very fairly isn't giving.
Having been through this and now well down the road of reconciliation it was so crucial for me to regain control and focus on me. It didn't take long for my dh to drop the ap and want to come back but if he hadn't I was mentally OK with that. It was far worse to sit and be miserable waiting for him to sort himself out and decide what he really wanted to do.
That's not to say I think op should rush into something she's not ready for. It's important she takes these steps for her and not to play games or because we are telling her to.

This. This is where I am and I've started with a solicitor and pensions this afternoon. We're not communicating well at all and I've asked him to leave for now - he should be gone when I get home. My poor DC are completely behind me, which makes me unbelievably sad and I hate him for that.

It feels completely hopeless.

She just said she would sort it, so she did. They are best friends after all (how cute! Silly me!). @FourAndFive

I hope she's extremely ditsy and naive, otherwise it looks very suspicious on her behalf, which again calls into question your DH's version of their friendship.

I know younger pp these days are better at platonic friendships than my generation (mid 50s) but even they know that marriage is a boundary that counts.

Why does the woman not just back off? I mean the only person you say should compromise is OP. She either ends the marriage or she has to accept it. Instead why doesn’t her husband pull his head out of arse or alternatively her DHs friend (clue - they’re not friends) just get back in her lane and fuck off to find her own friends that can spend nights away with her? I mean, you’ve sort of proved the point! Your relationship with someone else’s partner wasn’t platonic was it? Hence, why you’re not married with children.

Read updates...

I'm so sorry it's come to this.

You do need that space from him.

Do you have a plan for if he's still there when you get home? Do you have anyone who can back you up physically and apply pressure (by their presence, I don't mean anything more!).

Thinking of you x

You've got this op.
Do lots of nice things for yourself. Cook meals you and your dc love - bonus points if dh hates them! Start a new tradition - we started pancake Sunday breakfast (still do that and he's been back a year).
Do something to make your home feel yours - you don't have to wait to do that. I cleared out all dhs condiments from the fridge that drove me mad. I did it for me but seeing the look on his face when he went to the fridge for something when visiting the kids was an added bonus.
Start your life today and carry it on, whether you sort this out (and for what it's worth I believe he'll come to his senses) or not.

"It can create drama and romance where there wouldn't necessarily have been any."

He's threatened suicide more than once. There's already toxic histrionics on his part, so toxic that I think he needs a psych eval. He's also been deeply manipulative. He's creating the drama to get his wife to agree to going away with his EA partner.

There's a longer marriage than yours and kids here.

Just because your friendship turned romance jumpstarted with an ultimatum on a gf's part mean that OP would be worse off with setting boundaries. Her husband is using suicide threats either because he's seriously and dangerously mentally ill or he's that manipulative.

I think you have come off a bit smug and tone deaf to what's going on here. This is not a boyfriend with a prexisting friend (whom the gf was right about as it turned out, he had romantic feelings for you that you returned). This is a long time marriage being disrupted by a husband who wants an enmeshed relationship with a younger woman but also wants to look like a good guy so his wife must approve. Did your friend try to pressure his gf with suicide threats to get his way? It doesn't get more dramatic than that.

This means a lot - thank you.

{{{{FourAndFive}}}}

I'm so glad you have your kids for support. Take care of yourself, you need the space.

Just know we are all here rooting for you. I am amazed he thinks this is all ok on a friendship level? He will hopefully snap out of it, do you have a mutual friend who can give him a quiet talking to? Give his head a wobble! Sending you love and hugs from Wales xxx

After your most recent updates, I agree with PPs that it's probably time to end it. Threatening suicide again just shows what a manipulative shitbag he is.

@FourAndFive

Please talk to your parents about this. Ill or not, they would want to support their girl in her hour of need. Your idiot husband will be round to them complaining that you have thrown him out for no reason before you can bat an eyelid, if he stays away. I hope to God he would not be crass enough to ask them to put a roof over his head. Your folks should be shown whatever evidence you have of this inappropriate relationship, pronto.

This is a sad situation for DC, but better by far that they have your back, therefore they will be unlikely to listen to your husband's bs. They are grown ups and you will not need to pussyfoot around them as you would with younger children.

Hope you can build a good working relationship with the solicitor, but don't forget to keep all your dealings with him/her close to your chest.

All the very best to you and DC. Teacosy x

Thank you again, all of you, for every post of encouragement and care - so many of us have been and are going through it. No doubt others will come behind us. I hope this thread helps them as much as it's helped me.

Your stories are hard to read, and my heart goes out to all of you (lurkers and posters) with similar experiences. You are all incredible women.

I will not put up with it, that much I am absolutely sure of. This thread has helped me so, so much. I desperately want things to work out, but I am strong enough to push forward if they don't. His loss, isn't it? He will look the fool.

All of a sudden I don't feel like I'm on the back foot, anymore. Which is down to you lovely lot, and my vicious best friend, who wants to inflict physical pain on him - hurrah for her too.

Yep. A real 'friend' would be advising the husband to think carefully about what he's risking and would be mortified to be getting in the middle of a long marriage especially with children involved.
But said friend is 28 years old 🙄 so obviously doesn't have the life experience to understand fully whats at risk here for the husband, or the part she's playing in hurting his kids.
What middle aged man really values a friendship with a 28 year old woman anyway?! How ridiculous he'd seem in a group of her friends or vice versa.