Something isn't right - emotional affair or just friends?

[FourAndFive]

Name changed for this. It's a bit of a blur, and long, apologies in advance.

I need help and/or a slap to either wake me up to an emotional affair and huge gaslighting from my DH (47), or to help me deal with a shiny new friendship my DH of 24 years has.

He's hidden a friendship from me that has been going on for nearly a year. He has never, ever done this before, and has been a completely open book in all our years together. The last five years have been so good for us emotionally, and our relationship felt solid as far as I was concerned.

He has a hobby that he is obsessed (not lightheartedly obsessed, genuinely obsessed) with, and while doing this hobby he meets people from time to time. He would usually mention these people in passing, and I'm happy he's happy, so all good. About 6-7 weeks ago, he started to mention at funny times how he was meeting 'great people', and 'so many people to chat to' and 'I know so many people now' while he's doing his hobby and I thought yeah, great, but it was out of tone, and quite odd.

Fast forward a week or so, and he keeps name dropping and then tells me that I have to meet someone (single F28), because I'd really like her, and she does the hobby a bit more than he does, and has done it all over the world and how nice she is etc. and so I found myself meeting her for a few hours across two days, alongside some of her family members, who all knew about my DH and the shared hobby and thought how sweet it was... It was so very odd, and I couldn't put my finger on why, and I was so uncomfortable.

To cut a very long story short, it turns out they've been regularly meeting up since late last year, texting multiple times a day, including gifts and planning things around their hobby... I've since seen most of their messages. I have never seen my DH speak to anyone like he speaks to her (except me). He is a man who I know has strong moral boundaries, and keeps a safe distance from other women, doesn't encourage and is completely platonic with all of his female friends - which is clearly no longer the case! There is no 'sex' chat, and he talks about us occasionally (we have 2DC) but it's overly affectionate/mutual appreciation and excitement for finding each other - and I've hated reading them. (I asked him for phone access after all the minimising he was doing, and he said he'd deleted all messages - but he forgot to remove them from his deleted items, so I restored them. I know this is a massive red flag.)

I've told him that I need him to cut all contact with her - but he had serious meltdown (talk of CS), insists it's just friends and that I should trust him. I am finding this impossible, considering the lengths he's taken to hide her until recently. He hasn't done anything to reduce contact, and has even initiated meeting her multiple times, even though I specifically asked him not to. I know they met today for the hobby, and I know they've text each other, because he is telling me - at my request. But I shouldn't worry, because he loves me blah blah. I just want a bit of respite from it so I can get my head around his utterly bizarre behaviour, and consider everything that's happened. It's so unlike him.

I feel sick. The trust isn't there. I feel anxious all the time. I know what I should be doing, but I don't want him to be unhappy at the same time - especially if it is actually platonic. Thoughts please wise MN women! How do I navigate this shit show?

You have to understand that threatening suicide is totally abusive. If you call him in it, (by speaking to his GP/calling 111 for a welfare check, etc… truly force his hand) he will quickly stop beating you with that stick.

Yep - let me have a wife and an OW, otherwise I’m topping myself.

I remember Bob Geldof talking about Paula Yates in that way, he said ‘it looked like her, but it was like a different person was inside her body’ it’s so confusing, this person you loved is not in there anymore, it’s like an alien has taken over their body, they sound like them, and look like them but their words are not them’

it can take a long time to get over the shock of that, if you ever do.

He has an amazing relationship with both my parents. It is very odd, and I was so angry. He was with my Dad, so it came up in conversation, but they rarely talk about "things", they just enjoy each others company.

He told me that, the conversation went like this: 'I didn't tell Four about my new friend, and I should have, Four is angry with me, but I am not doing anything wrong - she's just my friend who I sometimes hobby with'.

Apparently DF said, 'well she hasn't got anything to worry about has she, so don't worry'. Which is understandable, given the utter rubbish he's been told. Due to ill health I cannot tell my parents anything at the moment - they will be so concerned, and they just don't need that.

It's all about controlling the narrative - I will have my time for the truth when it's right.

Oh how fucking dare he. He probably feels like a winner now that he has got your dad to agree there is nothing to worry about. I would be absolutely livid.

You are being so calm and controlled. I am in awe. Perhaps down the line you could ask your dad why he thinks your H felt the need to mention it to him if it was such a non-event? Especially given that he doesn't go running to his FIL every other time you have a disagreement....

His colours will be shown OP.

Due to ill health I cannot tell my parents anything at the moment - they will be so concerned, and they just don't need that.

Yet more confirmation of what a selfish, manipulative and devious man your H is proving to be : he has no reservations about involving your parents despite being aware of their health issues.
And knowing full well your decency and concern for your parents means you won't want to burden them by telling them the truth about his affair.

Isn’t it amazing how easily a very suspicious situation can be made out to be so innocent by the perpetrator.

In my example it was

him : (to his family) oh fedup isn’t coming for Xmas anymore as she’s jealous over my female best friend and has had a bit of a mental breakdown

actual situation: ridiculously over the top enmeshed codependent ‘friendship’ with another woman who he saw and communicated with behind my back , lied to me about her etc etc etc. not to mention me finding used condoms and other sex aids he hadn’t used with me . But you know , I’m just ‘jealous’

Yes - booked and paid for, by her. I have an invitation to go. How nice for me.

It's all about controlling the narrative - I will have my time for the truth when it's right.

OP, the time is NOW.

He's making a fool out of you. You will find it difficult to undo the process he's started. You're letting him have an affair in plain sight that he's now even told your father about!

Do not make the mistake of thinking your parents will side with you whenever you decide to flip the script. It's not a given.

Trust me. That's what I thought.

People don't always behave how you think they will. Look at your DH as an example.

I agree Op - you need to not let him totally re-write history and have an emotional affair in plain site. The time is now.

It sounds like your DH is not only getting validation in his version of this is just friendship from the girl’s family but now yours! What next the kids?

This will sadly have to blow up! Be in charge of it and let him be the one who blows up as he can’t have his cake and eat - and also continually tell everyone actually this is humble apple pie we’re all eating!

Has she booked a triple room?

It sounds like your DH is not only getting validation in his version of this is just friendship from the girl’s family but now yours! What next the kids?

@Tofudinosaur has hit the nail on the head here - that’s completely overstepping.

Yes - booked and paid for, by her. I have an invitation to go. How nice for me. @FourAndFive

Re the hobby overnight booking - has she paid for you as well? Is she expecting you to be there? Who's invited you?

Do you know for certain she has paid?
Why would she?

She's completely innocent or she's completely involved, I can't see how it can be anywhere in the middle.

And if she is completely involved then it points to something definitely more than what he's calling it.

Ive read all your updates and really feel for you 💐

Do you know what hotel so that you can surprise him by joining him in his bed at an unearthly x o’clock in the morning?
Have a friend stay at the hotel to be a detective.

Sad, but print out all the disgusting text messages and show your parents, before they are brainwashed. He started this, get your narrative in.

I think I've mentioned, no issues - dynamics or otherwise - of course the usual ups and downs. This is so completely out of character, which is why it's so difficult - if he had form, I wouldn't be here.

I can't start second guessing my whole marriage. Therein madness lies. That may come, when the dust settles, but not right now.

Yes, both kids at home.

But OP your marriage is now not the one you signed up for.
It's a different marriage: there are now 3 people in it.
You can't live your life as it used to be, by the old norms, because it has fundamentally changed for ever.

I agree. This is alarming.

This has been minimised to your father, who now also thinks there's nothing to worry about. What happened to the man who was suicidal at the thought of you taking everything 'he loves' from him? Where did he go? That same bloke is now casually telling your father that 'Four's mad because I've got a friend'.

No. Four's mad because he's in love with another woman. She's mad because he expects her to allow them a night away together in a hotel that's already been booked and paid for.

He's seems disturbingly confident that he can get away with this.

My (ex)friend had an affair and dangled it in front of her husband just like this. He coached her son at a hobby. She'd stay with her son at the hobby and flirt with him. Said she couldn't leave her son on his his own. so she had to stay for the session. Her son was 17.....

They also pretended to join a walking group. This bloke picked her up from the house and her DH and kids waved them off for a 'group' hiking day out. They were actually off for a day of shagging of course. There was no group.

I admire your flat feeling typing all this op...but ...is this the time now for getting disengaged ....and just observing

There is so much to respond to here -

turns out they've been regularly meeting up since late last year, texting multiple times a day, including gifts and planning things around their hobby

They're not friends. It may have not crossed over the physical line yet, but I don't think he just sees her as friends. What a lovely but predictable coincidence that she's much younger and single, eh?!

and is completely platonic with all of his female friends

That you know of.

ALL of his female friends? Exactly how many does he have OP? I'm sorry, but I see men with a lot of female friends as red flags now. They might not be intending to cheat, but there is a certain type of man out there who loves female attention a bit too much. They like keeping their options open for a rainy day, and developing friendships with women is how they do that.

These men like being seen as being progressive when it comes to relations between the sexes (and they think these female friendships are a sign of that), will outwardly support women's issues or women's rights, and say things they think will be interpreted as green flags, whereas actually........they just love having a bunch of women circulate around them as much as the typical lad-about-town. They're just much more covert about it.

'I didn't tell Four about my new friend, and I should have, Four is angry with me, but I am not doing anything wrong - she's just my friend who I sometimes hobby with'.

I agree with the other posters on here. He went above your head here and is trying to control the narrative with the people that are the very closest to you, who are meant to protect you, in a situation where he clearly has been behaving inappropriately.

He can't stand the thought that he will be seen as anything less than the upstanding citizen and husband that he thinks he is.

It is beyond cheeky for him to try to get your dad to back him up, with his selective retelling of the story.
But ultimately it doesn't matter, it's your marriage and your boundaries. If your entire family were quite happy for him to put this young woman first in his life, rather than you, it still wouldn't make it right. YOU are the only person who gets to decide what you will put up with in your marriage.
A married heterosexual man having a close relationship (including time alone, prolific secret messaging, overnight stays together etc) with a young, single, presumably heterosexual, attractive woman is not compatible with a happy marriage if your wife doesn't like it.
You said you backtracked before, on the cutting contact issue, because of the suicide threat. You can revisit this, it's not a one shot deal. As others have posted, signpost him to help if he still claims to feel like that. And insist he cuts contact or you split.
He is taking you and your dad for fools.
The woman knows exactly what she's doing as well. Health issues he can sympathise with, "oops have I caused an issue with your wife" whilst booking an overnight trip together, told her family all about him, I bet she has, and it's ok because you can come too!! Why would you want to legitimise a relationship that is wrecking your life, by going with them.
Don't try to keep things calm OP, blow things up, it is necessary. No-one would be ok with this.

She has booked and paid for it. It includes accommodation where you specify single occupancy or otherwise. I haven't seen the booking, but I know it's confirmed, it started the whole 'suicide' argument - it went from 'thinking about doing' to 'booked and confirmed' even though he knew it made me deeply uncomfortable.

She just said she would sort it, so she did. They are best friends after all (how cute! Silly me!). He wants me to be overjoyed and grateful and of course H would stay with me at a local hotel.

It's never fat, old, Dave who's retired, with a couple of missing teeth that they bond with at a hobby......

Double posted - oops

Op have you thought about calling his bluff and saying yes I’ll come?

Go with the children, if they can be persuaded.