Something isn't right - emotional affair or just friends?

[FourAndFive]

Name changed for this. It's a bit of a blur, and long, apologies in advance.

I need help and/or a slap to either wake me up to an emotional affair and huge gaslighting from my DH (47), or to help me deal with a shiny new friendship my DH of 24 years has.

He's hidden a friendship from me that has been going on for nearly a year. He has never, ever done this before, and has been a completely open book in all our years together. The last five years have been so good for us emotionally, and our relationship felt solid as far as I was concerned.

He has a hobby that he is obsessed (not lightheartedly obsessed, genuinely obsessed) with, and while doing this hobby he meets people from time to time. He would usually mention these people in passing, and I'm happy he's happy, so all good. About 6-7 weeks ago, he started to mention at funny times how he was meeting 'great people', and 'so many people to chat to' and 'I know so many people now' while he's doing his hobby and I thought yeah, great, but it was out of tone, and quite odd.

Fast forward a week or so, and he keeps name dropping and then tells me that I have to meet someone (single F28), because I'd really like her, and she does the hobby a bit more than he does, and has done it all over the world and how nice she is etc. and so I found myself meeting her for a few hours across two days, alongside some of her family members, who all knew about my DH and the shared hobby and thought how sweet it was... It was so very odd, and I couldn't put my finger on why, and I was so uncomfortable.

To cut a very long story short, it turns out they've been regularly meeting up since late last year, texting multiple times a day, including gifts and planning things around their hobby... I've since seen most of their messages. I have never seen my DH speak to anyone like he speaks to her (except me). He is a man who I know has strong moral boundaries, and keeps a safe distance from other women, doesn't encourage and is completely platonic with all of his female friends - which is clearly no longer the case! There is no 'sex' chat, and he talks about us occasionally (we have 2DC) but it's overly affectionate/mutual appreciation and excitement for finding each other - and I've hated reading them. (I asked him for phone access after all the minimising he was doing, and he said he'd deleted all messages - but he forgot to remove them from his deleted items, so I restored them. I know this is a massive red flag.)

I've told him that I need him to cut all contact with her - but he had serious meltdown (talk of CS), insists it's just friends and that I should trust him. I am finding this impossible, considering the lengths he's taken to hide her until recently. He hasn't done anything to reduce contact, and has even initiated meeting her multiple times, even though I specifically asked him not to. I know they met today for the hobby, and I know they've text each other, because he is telling me - at my request. But I shouldn't worry, because he loves me blah blah. I just want a bit of respite from it so I can get my head around his utterly bizarre behaviour, and consider everything that's happened. It's so unlike him.

I feel sick. The trust isn't there. I feel anxious all the time. I know what I should be doing, but I don't want him to be unhappy at the same time - especially if it is actually platonic. Thoughts please wise MN women! How do I navigate this shit show?

I think you need to reinforce your boundaries OP. You've told him to end it, he's refused. So he needs to leave until he does. No more talking until he's ended it. Because without ending it talking is just naval gazing, manipulative bullshit. I'd also be very clear that if he goes away with her then marriage cannot be saved. It's done.

If my husband had said that to my dad, he probably would have responded similarly….but it would have been a threat. ‘Well, she hasn’t got anything to be worried about then has she’. In other words, ‘she better not have anything to worry about.’

But he would have known. Older people aren’t stupid. They’ve seen all this before. Your parents will likely have discussed his confession and be concerned for you.

You probably don’t want to say much to people at the moment because this feels embarrassing for you. Not to mention, you’re hoping he’ll realise what he’s doing and come around, or that things will sort themselves out and you don’t want people thinking negatively of him or your relationship when things are back to normal. You’re also hiding the problem from your children as best you can.
But remember op, that your husband is relying on you doing this so he can keep up his shenanigans. It’s your inability to bring things out into the open, that enables him to gaslight you and maintain the status quo. It’s the hardest thing in the world to be open about what’s happening, because it changes everything.

I would have asked DH ‘Oh so my dad agreed what you’re doing is perfectly fine did he? Did you also mention that you wanted to go to an overnight event with her and that you felt your life wasn’t worth living without her in it?’

@FourAndFive
It you go it will be immensely painful and humiliating and if you don’t go it will be immensely painful and torturous.

Your ‘D’H should not be putting you through any of this.

It’s also absolutely meaningless that he/they have invited you along. They will walk the walk and talk the talk, until next time.

I’m sorry to say but it does sound like it’s the beginning of a slow end.

How would you feel if you went on the trip op? Would you feel like you were imposing on them? If so, that’s your answer right there re whether this is an inappropriate relationship. A man should be able to go on a trip and share a room with his wife with no consideration of anyone else there. If you feel like you’d be the third wheel then their connection is waaaay too strong for comfort. He’s taking the utter piss IMO and making a fool of you, take control back and make some moves for your own sanity.

I agree - you need to take action for your own sanity, and that of your children.

People aren’t blind, you are causing more worry by being silent.

Ask him to move out today.

If he won’t cancel the event, then go with him and make it your opportunity to tell the both of them together that this is unacceptable. He’ll be mortified, but so what. I’d be past caring at this point. I’m angry on your behalf.

Good idea

He is playing with fire. He has feelings for her and has crossed many lines but is clinging to the ‘I haven’t done anything wrong’ but it’s going to happen.

(and also, he HAS done something wrong, he has prioritised her over you. That’s wrong)

its like watching a toddler playing with matches. Except he is not just going to burn himself, your entire house is about to be burnt down. Sorry for your troubles.

Whether OP goes or not is the wrong thing to focus on. 'D'H shouldn't be doing this at all. This shouldn't even be on the table.

Imagine wondering if you should go away with your H and his AP to put a spanner in the works. In what fucking world is any man going on a trip like this or even considering it? Then threatening suicide if he's not allowed to.

I just can't with this thread anymore. I'm out.

Posters telling the OP to go with them to the hotel, even take the kids? Why? She would be condoning it by going and humiliating herself too! Why would she want to see the shit show close up? Why would she put herself there, how is it going to make her feel better or make her husband see that he is wrecking his marriage?
So they can say "look we didn't do anything this time so it's totally fine for us to go away together in the future" or "we invited OP and she came with us so she's fine with it."
It's not even about if they shag or not, it's the total inappropriateness of the relationship.

Long ago I was married to a man with lots of female friends and I was totally fine with it. Then I caught him in bed with someone (who wasn't one of the friends). However it then came out that several of the platonic ones were not platonic at all, including one of my friends.
When I left, he threatened suicide by going off for a long mountain walk in midwinter. Days without contact. His mum was frantic. He had actually gone to stay with one of the non platonics, in her rich parents' mansion. Some men are incredibly selfish and best left to it.

Well you’ve seen all the messages OP & you’ve said no sex texting , so clearly nothing physical going on yet , but that’s just it , not yet ..
I have a friend & this is exactly how it started out , he was her boss , he was married , they became great friends , they joined a running club together, Kayak club , gym together ..
Geuinely nothing ever happened between them for 2 years , it was all emotional until it wasn’t , & they became lovers ….
It ruined his marriage, she’s not with him either , ended up having to leave her job , a job that she loved , nothing to do with him , she was completely broken hearted & left the Country..
These things never EVER end well ..
Your husband needs an ultimatum , he can’t have this woman in his life ….

He ain't going to change so call his bluff. Pack his bags and kick him out already. This is so disrespectful towards you.

This is not me blaming you OP because I can only imagine how heartbreaking all of this is, but so far it doesn't sound like you’ve followed through on any of your boundaries. So in his mind, why bother changing the status quo?

You told him to stop seeing her - he didn't, you stayed. You told him to move out for a week - he hasn't, you stayed. You told him you were unhappy with this overnight - he's going, you're staying.

Don't fall into the trap of inertia or you'll wake up in 6 months and it'll be the same, and death by a thousand paper cuts. If you want him to respect you, you need to follow through.

I would say you are going. Create a group WhatsApp for the trip. They can communicate in the group WhatsApp from now on.

Then watch him try to squirm his way out of you going. It will tell you everything you need to know.

Well, the conversation with your DF is startlingly economical, no?

I would see it as missing a few phrases - you, presumably, would have even more to see as conspicuously absent:

-- He told me that, the conversation went like this: 'I didn't tell Four about my new friend, and I should have
(I've known her for a year, actually, so quite well by now)
Four is angry with me, but I am not doing anything wrong - she's just my friend who (is 28 and) I sometimes hobby with'.
(We'll be doing this hobby as an overnighter in a couple of weeks, Four's been really sore about that but I'm going, come hell or high water).

Has she booked two rooms for them?
I’d turn up in the middle of the night and ask to check into his room. You’ll see with your own eyes what’s going on.
Or, you could put your foot down and make him move out. Any man who accepts another woman - single woman - paying for him to go away for a weekend despite his wife being unhappy about it deserves the boot.
Please be careful because as others have mentioned, you’ll end up with the story have been written and believed and when you finally kick him out you’ll be the bad guy, afterall it was just a friend. Dont underestimate that this could go on for years only for him to then leave you anyway.
your parents may be devastated not to be able to be there to support you, ill or not, once it all comes out If it was your child you’d want the opportunity to be there emotionally for them.
and perhaps he will have a bit more of a mirror held up to him once more people know the truth. This is not your shame. It’s his and he needs to have it reflected to him with no ability to be able to rewrite the narrative to suit himself.
please believe all these posters - lots of us have been in similar situations and are trying to help you feel less trauma. Even if it doesn’t feel like it to you. You will get through this. Big hugs.

Sorry I seem to have posted twice so just deleted

Having been in this position, I do agree with others saying, the more time you give him to gaslight friends and family into feeling he's the victim here, the harder it will be to put across your side (reality). People like him, who do what he is doing, are absolute GENIUSES at making everyone around them feel sorry for them, even though they are the guilty ones. I can't stress this enough - they are SO good at it, and if given long enough to talk BS, will gaslight you too. Don't fall for it and get your side across to your family as soon as you can (can be done calmly and gently if you are worried about how they will take it.)

I completely understand the

‘getting your ducks…’

’not rushing in to anything…’

etc etc

But OP, how are you going to feel sitting on your own in the evening when your DH is away with ‘OW’ on that trip?

Even if she is just a friend and innocent, I rather think this trip has set the timescale for some definitive conversations that you may otherwise have delayed.

I’m so sorry that you are in this situation, but if you let it continue on like this you have set the tone.

I can’t see how you will be able to ‘turn the clock back’ on what your DH will deem as acceptance.and then put your foot down on his inappropriate behaviour - he will simply say you are being even more irrational and unreasonable after the teip….

Do you think not covering for your husband with your family and calling in mental help when he threatens suicide is going to put your marriage past recovery?

Why didn't you call the police or at the least a suicide line when your husband yet again threatened suicide?

Why did you not tell your father that your husband's threatening suicide if he can't see his hobby partner?

This has gone way past a friendship. Your husband is covering so he can maintain that nice guy image and you're colluding with him in that. Is it because of he's exposed as an awful husband deep into an emotional affair, he'll leave you? Is that his boundary for you to stay married? Or do you think it's a boundary?

I think you need to be honest with your family. He's actively working to isolate you from any support system and you're way behind here.

This.

He is a manipulative bastard. He’s trying to isolate you from your parents and your support network. When you tell them, he’s already told your dad that you’re being a silly billy and over reacting. You need to tell people so you can have support. You are being far too kind to him and he’s being a complete arsehole. You’re already one step behind - he’s kept this from you for ages and now is manipulating you and those around you.
Please put yourself first - he is not your friend and deserves no loyalty from you.

One of the things that really sticks in my head in my situation was him almost screaming , tantrum like, that he ‘will not stop talking to my ‘friiieeennnnnnddddddd!’ Like a child. I’m imagining your H was much the same with his suicide threats . It’s pathetic . No friend should be causing this much drama . He’s broken the ‘forsaking all others’ vow.

I don't think you'll ever get the trust back. You'll never really know the truth. He has prioritised her. Knowing what I know now having been through the same I would get my sicks in a row.

Hope your doing OK, op. I haven't given any advice as you have been given AMAZING advice from all these fabulous females.
Just wanted to send my love and support to you xx

She's actually paid for your DH (he may have said that because you might kick off about household spending) ... This would make me so angry. The utter cheek of it.

I'd be ringing her up and saying what the fuck are you playing at. You are having an emotional affair with my DH and I am NOT ok with it. Stop pretending that you are innocent in this. etc.

But I know that might interfere with getting ducks in a row. which is better done without alerting him.

It's difficult because one can't help but be concerned when someone close to you tells you they are having suicidal thoughts ....but its funny this has coincided with having a new supportive female friend...

Is it all just part of the Poor Me... I'm just a confused Good Guy act? I think it sounds like utter BS.

Also, you didn't want to tell your parents the whole story just yet because you are concerned about their health, but he's had NO concerns at all has he?.I 'd be telling him in no uncertain terms to stay the fuck away from them and NOT to be having conversations about his "situation" with your poor Dad. Because now that he's opened the floodgates and got a sympathetic ear, who knows what he will say next. The utter cheek of it! Also I'd ask your dad what he's actually said.

Sorry OP