Something isn't right - emotional affair or just friends?

[FourAndFive]

Name changed for this. It's a bit of a blur, and long, apologies in advance.

I need help and/or a slap to either wake me up to an emotional affair and huge gaslighting from my DH (47), or to help me deal with a shiny new friendship my DH of 24 years has.

He's hidden a friendship from me that has been going on for nearly a year. He has never, ever done this before, and has been a completely open book in all our years together. The last five years have been so good for us emotionally, and our relationship felt solid as far as I was concerned.

He has a hobby that he is obsessed (not lightheartedly obsessed, genuinely obsessed) with, and while doing this hobby he meets people from time to time. He would usually mention these people in passing, and I'm happy he's happy, so all good. About 6-7 weeks ago, he started to mention at funny times how he was meeting 'great people', and 'so many people to chat to' and 'I know so many people now' while he's doing his hobby and I thought yeah, great, but it was out of tone, and quite odd.

Fast forward a week or so, and he keeps name dropping and then tells me that I have to meet someone (single F28), because I'd really like her, and she does the hobby a bit more than he does, and has done it all over the world and how nice she is etc. and so I found myself meeting her for a few hours across two days, alongside some of her family members, who all knew about my DH and the shared hobby and thought how sweet it was... It was so very odd, and I couldn't put my finger on why, and I was so uncomfortable.

To cut a very long story short, it turns out they've been regularly meeting up since late last year, texting multiple times a day, including gifts and planning things around their hobby... I've since seen most of their messages. I have never seen my DH speak to anyone like he speaks to her (except me). He is a man who I know has strong moral boundaries, and keeps a safe distance from other women, doesn't encourage and is completely platonic with all of his female friends - which is clearly no longer the case! There is no 'sex' chat, and he talks about us occasionally (we have 2DC) but it's overly affectionate/mutual appreciation and excitement for finding each other - and I've hated reading them. (I asked him for phone access after all the minimising he was doing, and he said he'd deleted all messages - but he forgot to remove them from his deleted items, so I restored them. I know this is a massive red flag.)

I've told him that I need him to cut all contact with her - but he had serious meltdown (talk of CS), insists it's just friends and that I should trust him. I am finding this impossible, considering the lengths he's taken to hide her until recently. He hasn't done anything to reduce contact, and has even initiated meeting her multiple times, even though I specifically asked him not to. I know they met today for the hobby, and I know they've text each other, because he is telling me - at my request. But I shouldn't worry, because he loves me blah blah. I just want a bit of respite from it so I can get my head around his utterly bizarre behaviour, and consider everything that's happened. It's so unlike him.

I feel sick. The trust isn't there. I feel anxious all the time. I know what I should be doing, but I don't want him to be unhappy at the same time - especially if it is actually platonic. Thoughts please wise MN women! How do I navigate this shit show?

I agree. He's trying to get his 'side of the story' in first. That's a really shitty thing to do as he's trying to get the OP's dad on his side when really her dad is the person that OP should be able to go to for support and comfort.

Like others here, I would be really concerned that he has spoken with your dad. That is the action of someone who is trying to control the narrative and turn other people against you. Narcissistic people do this all the time and it can be devastating (speaking from experience). Also, him going to your dad is a really bold, aggressive move. Have you spoken to your dad yourself?

If I were you, I would be confiding in key people now to get ahead of his potential narrative. I am so sorry that you are going through this. You sound like such a nice person and he sounds awful.

Yup all entirely normal within the emotional affair dance.

He's ticking all the boxes, calling you mad, she's just a friend (who I refuse/can't give up), contacting your support system to undermine you, deleting innocent ? messages, playing the victim card, etc etc, the list goes on and on...

You are not mad, he has a free get out of jail card on offer, drop the friendship and normailty returns, he is refusing your offer.

You say you feel the rock in your throat, that I presume is the fear, not knowing if this is the end, he will throw in the divorce card to put you back in your box and act nonchalant about it, discussing finances, childcare and living arrangements.

He will try to destabalize you with fear to back down.

He is currently bullying you, trying to shame you into silence.

If he continues, be wary of his moods, as a pp said the shame he holds can come out as self harm or more predictably, violence and intimidation, if there is any hint of this call the police.

You must be exhausted, this is an assault on the mind and body which he is currently putting you through. Bastard.

Take care

Totally agree with this.. and trying to get your own parents on his "side" - despicable... I bet he told them the Poor Me sob story too.... expertly leaving the Bad You for them to conclude as he's far too good to say it outloud.

Have they gone ahead with the Overnight Hobby Booking?

I agree you don't need to rush, but talking to your Dad doesn't mean everyone has to know.

Also sending a hug as this must be so exhausting and unbearable but you will come out the other side.

Poor you @FourAndFive . It must be so painful seeing your husband replaced by a pathetic snivelling manipulative pillock.

So now he's got your dad on side?

Not only does he love this other woman more than you, he's happy to throw you under the bus, by painting you as an unreasonable nutter, so he can have her. He's not even giving you respect.

Do your kids live with you? They are aware of this situation, so why haven't they told him: "Dad, you know that mum is your wife, right?"

What hold does this man have over everyone in the family that he can have two wives, in front of your kids, your dad and you, with nothing but:

Side eye from your kids
Nothing from your dad
You asking him not to cheat with her and him saying "no" and carrying on.

I think there's something wrong with the dynamic in your house and it's been there for a long time. You need to look over entire marriage and who this man really is, with a fresh pair of eyes

No, it hasn't hit me properly. I'm glad you're finding it helpful too - it's been such a help to me. The withdrawal is natural, it's just bringing everything to the front again. How dare they!!!

I have - although it's a questionnaire from the 80's, it lacks a little nuance, it's still bang on.

You are not childish - in any way at all.

Remember what he accuses you of is actually his own behaviour.

He is childish.

You are also loved just the way you are - but not by him - likely because he isn't capable of it.

Hope you’re ok OP.

I’ve told you before about my experiences, so that you can consider them. I don’t want you or anyone to go through what I went through, but sadly so many of us have been through what you’ve now experiencing, and I know my heart goes out to you, but get focused and stay firm. You don’t need to rush, but you do need a plan. Vibe I’m getting is that he’s muddying the waters, to suit him. The longer you talk with him, the more he will confuse you. Get him to move out. Please.

One of my adult DDs was in an abusive relationship. Her now ex turned up at my door, because he wanted to get in first with his warped narrative. He got short shrift, putting it mildly. Hope your husband got the same from your dad. Tell family the truth. Tell them. Tell his family also, especially about the suicidal ideation. They need to be aware.You have done nothing wrong. Your narrative lovely, and only you control it. Take care.

I’ve been lurking OP but if put into literal words is he basically saying ‘I am threatening suicide if you don’t let me continue in this marriage while also conducting an intense ‘friendship’ with another woman in plain sight with no complaints?’

If possible, OP, update on what your father thinks now ( I am all fingers crossed he is a decent man and has your back, otherwise ) you leaving all this to go on....is honestly, NOT in your benefit, at all

He’s trying to get you to admit you’re being paranoid and over reacting. Stick to your guns and trust your gut! And definitely look at other ways he could be messaging her. Apps etc?

Your H needs to stop what he is doing with her immediately. This would limit the damage, limit your trauma. As it is, he is extending the damage, deepening your trauma. He needs to stop. And do everything he can to make you feel safe again.

Is there really any point in saying here that this what he must do if he's already said he won't? The OP has told him to stop seeing the other woman and he's refused.

This is what I thought to. If it was just a nice person from a hobby, why did he think he couldn't tell you because there were a few difficult things going on for you? It's clear it's a huge deal in his head and yet he doesn't seem to be able to admit that, only to show you that through his actions.

Before you can move forward together he needs to admit just how much this woman means to him, and also admit that it's not right when he's married, and apologise to you. If he can't do those things then you can't possibly continue your marriage.

Can you go and visit your parents OP. He clearly is controlling the narrative and has probably told them that you are acting weirdly and he is worried about you! suggesting that you are a problem, not him. I think it is pretty vital that you speak to them yourself. Do they llive near enough to get in the car and go and talk with them? Maybe stay with a few nights. It would have the advantage of being apart from DH for a while too. You could do with a break from him!

Personally can't imagine myself at 28 (or any age at that matter) developing such a 'strong' friendship with a married man. Especially one significantly older...unless I was romantically interested (although not on my moral compass!) I think it's inappropriate of her too to be texting etc. I wouldn't trust her either!

How utterly sad and awful, can't imagine how you must be feeling! Sadly agree if he's threatened CS and cleared messages... There's more than meets the eye

Personally I feel messaging FIL is further manipulation. Exactly what my XH would have done (but he had more success with my mother as she was 'charmed' with his Mr Nice Guy persona).
I used to fold and I now look back and realise that the trauma I held affected me deeply and I ceded every time. All my fault for not understanding the 'situation' correctly.
He's currently living his '2 selves' and they both run concurrently within himself.

@FourAndFiveplease don't be me. I caved every time under familial pressure and a sense of duty, a pride in keeping the perfect family together. To not ask the difficult questions.

It's very simple for your DH. He just has to stop this connection because it upsets you.

Op please don't be a mug tell him to get out you are being made a fool of. I hope you find peace and I'm sorry if this sounds harsh.

Yes what a awful controlling abusive man.

Actually although it sounds obvious this is a important message.

Op is currently eperiencing trauma, her nervous system must be shot, anxious, hyper vigilant, fearful and at other times depressed, deflated, desperately sad and grieving not to mention the confusion and second guessing herself.

He must be seeing this, that's why his remarks about CS is so cruel, she is the one who is under extreme pressure.

He could hault this, but these situations don't resolve in days, or weeks they can drag on for months or years. They make false promises and then renege on those promises six months down the line or further, the lack of trust leads to hyper vigilance which can be all consuming and exhausting.

This will be an endurance test and it is this period in years to come if he does come to his senses that op will remember, the cruelty and the lack of mercy during her pain.
This man has no empathy and little care for her physical and mental health.

So yes any person who could put a stop to this and doesn't is in my mind quite evil.

I think you should ask him to go. He isn’t being accountable at all. Tell him you will call his GP and let them know he’s suicidal, etc. he needs to start understanding that actions have consequences and you are an autonomous person - not just a body that facilitates an easier life for him.

THIS, @FourAndFive

He won’t kill himself. The manipulative piece of shit.