Something isn't right - emotional affair or just friends?

[FourAndFive]

Name changed for this. It's a bit of a blur, and long, apologies in advance.

I need help and/or a slap to either wake me up to an emotional affair and huge gaslighting from my DH (47), or to help me deal with a shiny new friendship my DH of 24 years has.

He's hidden a friendship from me that has been going on for nearly a year. He has never, ever done this before, and has been a completely open book in all our years together. The last five years have been so good for us emotionally, and our relationship felt solid as far as I was concerned.

He has a hobby that he is obsessed (not lightheartedly obsessed, genuinely obsessed) with, and while doing this hobby he meets people from time to time. He would usually mention these people in passing, and I'm happy he's happy, so all good. About 6-7 weeks ago, he started to mention at funny times how he was meeting 'great people', and 'so many people to chat to' and 'I know so many people now' while he's doing his hobby and I thought yeah, great, but it was out of tone, and quite odd.

Fast forward a week or so, and he keeps name dropping and then tells me that I have to meet someone (single F28), because I'd really like her, and she does the hobby a bit more than he does, and has done it all over the world and how nice she is etc. and so I found myself meeting her for a few hours across two days, alongside some of her family members, who all knew about my DH and the shared hobby and thought how sweet it was... It was so very odd, and I couldn't put my finger on why, and I was so uncomfortable.

To cut a very long story short, it turns out they've been regularly meeting up since late last year, texting multiple times a day, including gifts and planning things around their hobby... I've since seen most of their messages. I have never seen my DH speak to anyone like he speaks to her (except me). He is a man who I know has strong moral boundaries, and keeps a safe distance from other women, doesn't encourage and is completely platonic with all of his female friends - which is clearly no longer the case! There is no 'sex' chat, and he talks about us occasionally (we have 2DC) but it's overly affectionate/mutual appreciation and excitement for finding each other - and I've hated reading them. (I asked him for phone access after all the minimising he was doing, and he said he'd deleted all messages - but he forgot to remove them from his deleted items, so I restored them. I know this is a massive red flag.)

I've told him that I need him to cut all contact with her - but he had serious meltdown (talk of CS), insists it's just friends and that I should trust him. I am finding this impossible, considering the lengths he's taken to hide her until recently. He hasn't done anything to reduce contact, and has even initiated meeting her multiple times, even though I specifically asked him not to. I know they met today for the hobby, and I know they've text each other, because he is telling me - at my request. But I shouldn't worry, because he loves me blah blah. I just want a bit of respite from it so I can get my head around his utterly bizarre behaviour, and consider everything that's happened. It's so unlike him.

I feel sick. The trust isn't there. I feel anxious all the time. I know what I should be doing, but I don't want him to be unhappy at the same time - especially if it is actually platonic. Thoughts please wise MN women! How do I navigate this shit show?

@HotHotHome I remember it well with my ex husband. He was a self proclaimed good man (ie an abusive shit) and I had to play the game of still pretending he was wonderful and being upset he was leaving when secretly I was really fucking relieved I would never have to listen to the shite he talked ever again. And as a previous poster has said, you just don’t know how dangerous a ‘good man’ can be when the facade is shattered.

It’s awful so many women on here have similar stories.

And these types of women are often the ones who end up with boys that have loose boundaries and act selfishly like their mothers.

You know what I mean ladies, many of these marriages wouldn't have lasted two minutes if it was upto the males to nurture them, they require women to do everthing, including sorting out their ego's and mental health. Aging and women needing their support will quickly have them thinking they need another carer.

Forget them, the women on here who have been rewarded with absolute betrayal and disloyalty are the one's that know, we know fairness, empathy and love.

They don't.

So sorry you are going through this OP.

You say you adore him and always have. It sounds worth saving.

I think you (plural) can get through this but he needs to recognise the seriousness of what he is doing and pull out all the stops. He must cut contact; tell you everything; agree new boundaries.

Helping Couples Heal is a good podcast.

I wouldn’t really call it giving him the benefit of the doubt, I just thought it might explain the behaviour OP has described in their specific case.

No sane person threatens to commit suicide, and other things she has said seem like he might actually be quite delusional about what is going on.

She has also read his messages and is quite convinced that although he does seem guilty, it hasn’t progressed to a physical affair (yet).

He isn't sane. He's obscene. And obsessed

@CelerySticker I’m undecided - but am putting myself in a position that I can actually make a choice and it takes time - ( we don’t own a house for instance) and work in a joint business - like you I had all my eggs in one basket on more ways than one - I don’t hate him and I do care - and to be fair he’s a handsome dude for his age and we do get a lot of good life experiences in. being honest I’m no longer sure I actually like marriages or living with someone and that’s after 30 years , I find it’s all somewhat one sided , and I’ve ended up just going along with their path because I never get my own way and at 63 I can’t be arsed to create friction . An example is that I fancied doing a few nights out doing voluntary - he busily thought of every reason in the book why it wasn’t a great idea and then said if he was my friends partner he wouldn’t be remotely ok with the fact she goes out to activities or socialising 4 nights a week ( she’s in her 40s and one older child) - it’s this kind of thing to me that gets me, and I guess when you have had an episode of disloyalty even years before small other things kind of add to the pile of dissatisfaction .

Are you ok op?

God I am so sorry. I can only imagine how devastated you are feeling right now. I can only agree with what other have said - it doesn't matter whether it's an affair or not, what matters is that he's putting it ahead of your marriage, and feels so strongly about this relationship he would threaten suicide rather than end it.

I hope you’re okay OP, this was a sad one to read.

OP, I think men often mistake a new ‘friendship’ like this for being something incredibly important not because of you or your marriage but because of the way they feel about themselves. A solid marriage provides security and genuine love but infatuation is on a whole new level. It’s intoxicating and drug-like. It’s not based on reality. It makes them feel empowered and significant. This really isn’t about the way he feels about you, it’s about the way he feels about himself. Midlife does random (devastating) things to people.

He’s an idiot. You can get through this if he walks away from this friendship and sees it, and his behaviour, for what it is. It won’t be easy and there’s a strong chance he will blame you for the loss of something special in his life but, with distance, he will see things more clearly. See it as a drug that he believes makes him feel better and wants to continue using because that is exactly what infatuation is.

@Crikeyalmighty Our stories are incredibly similar xx

Many of the posts here resonate with my own experience. DH has a hobby and was a member of a club meeting every 2 weeks, there was always a high volume of messaging, and eventually I became suspicious and read the very flirtatious texts to a female member of the club. I was shell-shocked and heart broken and my first reaction was to end the relationship, which had been very happy ( I thought), until this discovery. My DH apologised sincerely, broke off all contact, did not attend the club again and has has tried his best to regain my trust. We are still together but it has been a difficult journey, 18 months later it does feel like it is in the past and it is not something I dwell on, but I am sad that there is not 100% trust between us anymore.

@CelerySticker indeed - and I’ve realised if I leave it’s going to be to be ‘on my own’ - for me the disloyalty killed our sex life too, my heart just wasn’t in it the same way . I think in my Hs case it was a mid life ego buzz that he was lacking in other ways, not into sport, didn’t have local friends although has a lot of non local friends/business colleagues. He is honest enough to say it wasn’t dissatisfaction with me one bit, just general dissatisfaction and he missed that ‘in love’ kind of intoxication high that in reality is usually only for a few years. Sad really that some very stupid behaviour kind of ruined the feelings long term -

I know the position you are in. I am older and have not had the advice of your grandmother. I wish I had moved on when I first found out but am now too old to do that.

Sometimes finance makes it impossible. But wonder if these men do stay in the marriage

So so hard op to even think of separation in such a long marriage

I agree with those who say get this out in the open. He needs cold water in the face.

Does he have a close friend you could get involved ?

Getting this out in the open is great advice.
I didn't keep my dhs infidelity a secret and have no regrets.
I got amazing support from friends when I really needed it and it totally burst what was left of my dh's little fantasy bubble.

What is it about people on Mumsnet and their “mutual hobbies”. Seems to cause more harm than good.

Interesting turn on this thread. We're back on to how it's the fault of the temptresses who woo these men and the poor men can't resist. They need that rush that they're not getting from their marriage. Cut them off from their drug and all will resume ... it's depressing to read this kind of thing.

Yes it is depressing.
I must say I found the posts like the one made by @Itwasallyellow2
extremely galling because it seems to regard OP's H as a poor silly little deluded man.
He is an adult with a wife and children. Not some stupid little boy who doesnt understand what vows and commitment to his wife and family means.
Why should it be up to OP to make allowances for his infatuation?

She doesn't need make any allowances ...the man or his gf need to go

Because if the op dares give update on the overnight event, this will be a whole new drama in its own ...they had sex

Yes I agree with you. But obviously some posters think differently.

Thank you for sharing. My ducks are lining up.

I'm so sorry you have to relive this every day - amazing that you're carving your own way. I am doing the same.

This resonated - even in these early days: I will not spend the dwindling years I have left in my life with a husband who still maintains he never crossed any lines and tries to re-write it all as a big overreaction on my part.

Wow. So much excellent advice on this thread. Things like this just still my mind, helps me to regain a bit of quiet and focus. I'm really grateful.

@FourAndFive and believe me as @CelerySticker knows all too well as do I , they will want to minimise it asap - a kind of ‘oh let’s just forget that happened and get back to you thinking I’m amazing and you are 100% in ’ kind of view - and if there’s anything they think you don’t know, they won’t be 100% open either.