Something isn't right - emotional affair or just friends?

[FourAndFive]

Name changed for this. It's a bit of a blur, and long, apologies in advance.

I need help and/or a slap to either wake me up to an emotional affair and huge gaslighting from my DH (47), or to help me deal with a shiny new friendship my DH of 24 years has.

He's hidden a friendship from me that has been going on for nearly a year. He has never, ever done this before, and has been a completely open book in all our years together. The last five years have been so good for us emotionally, and our relationship felt solid as far as I was concerned.

He has a hobby that he is obsessed (not lightheartedly obsessed, genuinely obsessed) with, and while doing this hobby he meets people from time to time. He would usually mention these people in passing, and I'm happy he's happy, so all good. About 6-7 weeks ago, he started to mention at funny times how he was meeting 'great people', and 'so many people to chat to' and 'I know so many people now' while he's doing his hobby and I thought yeah, great, but it was out of tone, and quite odd.

Fast forward a week or so, and he keeps name dropping and then tells me that I have to meet someone (single F28), because I'd really like her, and she does the hobby a bit more than he does, and has done it all over the world and how nice she is etc. and so I found myself meeting her for a few hours across two days, alongside some of her family members, who all knew about my DH and the shared hobby and thought how sweet it was... It was so very odd, and I couldn't put my finger on why, and I was so uncomfortable.

To cut a very long story short, it turns out they've been regularly meeting up since late last year, texting multiple times a day, including gifts and planning things around their hobby... I've since seen most of their messages. I have never seen my DH speak to anyone like he speaks to her (except me). He is a man who I know has strong moral boundaries, and keeps a safe distance from other women, doesn't encourage and is completely platonic with all of his female friends - which is clearly no longer the case! There is no 'sex' chat, and he talks about us occasionally (we have 2DC) but it's overly affectionate/mutual appreciation and excitement for finding each other - and I've hated reading them. (I asked him for phone access after all the minimising he was doing, and he said he'd deleted all messages - but he forgot to remove them from his deleted items, so I restored them. I know this is a massive red flag.)

I've told him that I need him to cut all contact with her - but he had serious meltdown (talk of CS), insists it's just friends and that I should trust him. I am finding this impossible, considering the lengths he's taken to hide her until recently. He hasn't done anything to reduce contact, and has even initiated meeting her multiple times, even though I specifically asked him not to. I know they met today for the hobby, and I know they've text each other, because he is telling me - at my request. But I shouldn't worry, because he loves me blah blah. I just want a bit of respite from it so I can get my head around his utterly bizarre behaviour, and consider everything that's happened. It's so unlike him.

I feel sick. The trust isn't there. I feel anxious all the time. I know what I should be doing, but I don't want him to be unhappy at the same time - especially if it is actually platonic. Thoughts please wise MN women! How do I navigate this shit show?

Good luck OP, though I’m not sure what outcome would be a good result for you. I guess the only really satisfactory one would be him coming to his senses.

But his emotional blackmail of you is despicably insulting and he needs to hear and recognise that. Are his family really of so little importance to him?

😱

Hi OP
Through experience , I'd say he's not some magical unicorn who has this unusual situation?as he thinks he is) he's just some totally average unimaginative guy who has met someone else.
If you ended the relationship, in time or even straight away, they would be together
Men like this twist you in angst and you are denied common sense, like somehow in this case , he's a tortured soul or blah blah blah
In reality he's just yet another feckless bloke willing to ruin everything for testosterone. Its so boring and typical, despite all his histrionics and over acting

It will take time but you will eventually recognise that the man you loved no longer exists. If he loved you and his children he would not still be putting you through this. He is not a good man.

Time to show him just how upset you are. Tell him to leave and mean it. Tell him he doesnt love you, he doesnt care for his children, all he cares about is this woman. Find your anger but be icily insistent.

If he’s been hiding the friendship from you, that says it all, really.

I was cheated on (there’s a long back story to it, but it happened), a coworker I didn’t even know existed. I knew every other coworker, just not this one. My partner has no history of cheating and had been cheated on so it was something he was very vocal against. I was completely blindsided and shattered.

Anyways, fast forward to us eventually chatting about getting back together. At some point I asked how could I ever be sure that this wouldn’t happen again?

He said because he’d never put himself in a position to cheat again. And I think really, that’s the crux of it. If you enable situations where an affair might start, you’re already venturing into dangerous territory. If your H isn’t prepared to accept that he needs to cut it out, maybe you need to let him go so that he feels the weight of his actions.

I'm several years down the road from this. A co-worker, young, pretty, "needed support because she was going through such a hard time". DH was a typical White Knight feeling the hero, riding in to save the day. Definitely emotional, very possibly physical affair, but I never had definitive proof. Secret meetups, long chats, making sure their schedule coincided so they could be around each other during the day. I confronted him and asked him if he was ok losing a 35 year marriage over it. Typical script, gaslighting, excuses, feigning innocence. It was a wakeup call for him. He immediately distanced himself, switched jobs, has since gone out of his way to make me feel I am his priority in life.

It's all good on paper. Day to day life is fine. We still have a laugh, still do things together, have fun with our children and grandchildren. However the way I feel about him has fundamentally changed. He was my go-to person, best friend, life partner for 30+ years. I don't trust him and involuntarily tense up every time his phone pings or he is chatting online with someone, which always turns out to be one of the kids or grandkids. I have full access to all his devices, but that feeling safe in the relationship is gone. I know he has the capability to do this to me and could do it again.

I've been quietly getting my ducks in a row and plotting my escape route. It will take a couple more years as I am nearly at retirement age and even a 50/50 asset split would currently leave me in a dire financial situation. I will not spend the dwindling years I have left in my life with this shit of a husband who still maintains he never crossed any lines and tries to re-write it all as a big overreaction on my part.

I wish only the best for you. Even if you stay, I would suggest getting your ducks in a row. There is great power in knowing you can leave if you want to. My grandmother used to tell me that every woman should have a secret Plan B, with money hidden away that your husband knows nothing about. I only wish I had taken her advice earlier.

Really good advice

I know you are processing deep hurt and sadness (and waiting for your anger) but the awful reality is that whilst you are in the depths of emotional turmoil, he continues to message the other woman.

His reality and your reality are poles apart. He is 'just messaging his friend, it's all above board, you've met each other, she's no threat to the marriage, she is his best friend etc.' whilst you can see the destruction and heartbreak ahead. He is in denial. You are in the reality zone.

It will be worth understanding this polarity when you tackle the conversation. It will be almost impossible to drag him out of his denial. Only one of you is trying to save your marriage.

You have to decide on your silver bullet.

So he’s basically told you life isn’t worth living without her? Manipulative in the extreme. You have your answer OP. I’m sorry but time to get angry and organised as you can’t live this way and he’s clearly obsessed with her.

@HeadDeskHeadDesk and @User6537905 : yes; it's less about the woman / hobby than it is about deprioritising his DW/the OP (IMO). And we can all do it (the deprioritising thing); and having a wake up call is important.

OP, this is so tough. Sending love and strength (and wondering about my own DH's relationship with his hobby -- not b/c I think there is an OW but b/c it is definitely more important (in terms of time) than me or the family). I have let that happen (not without pulling him up on it sometimes, but I am BORED of pulling him up on it and think that he is choosing to lie in the bed that he has made). Reading through all of this and thinking about you ... I wonder.

Love your strength @CelerySticker. I agree with you. Once the trust has gone, you don't really have anything.

Thanks @Robin67 - I certainly don't feel strong. I feel a fool for putting all my eggs in one basket so I was unable to leave the moment I understood what was going on.

This is so tough for you - honestly, I can imagine my husband in this situation ; he’s had several what I would call “crushes” over the course of our 25 year relationship which we have weathered and which I have always called out and which we do sometimes laugh about tbh. I am positive that none have become physical and like you because I know him so well I can always spot the signs and I genuinely think he thinks he is doing nothing wrong. I’m sure the trolls will be out to tell me otherwise but maybe he isn’t. At the end of the day you cannot police or stop how someone feels but acting on the feeling is the issue. What you describe however is the next step up in emotional attachment and I think you need to give him an ultimatum: you or her. Whatever happens though he has had those feelings for another woman so when he picks you (as I am sure he will if I’m reading his personality correctly) you will still have to work though your grief that he had such a deep connection with someone else. Good luck xxx

Spot on!

If he goes away for this overnight trip it‘s over. Whether or not they are physical, whether she feels the same or not as him, it really doesn’t matter. Bottom line is he would rather you hurting than the OW or himself. That would be the “no coming back from” situation for me. You’ll forever feel second best and worthless in the marriage. I’m so sorry. I hope he sees sense and drops all contact and doesn’t go. If he does I would pack his stuff for when he comes back. Have the bags and greet him with them as soon as he walks through the door.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and nothing about you is foolish.

I wasn’t clear whether he’s done the hobby for six or seven years, or since he was six or seven ?

Hope you’re ok OP

The fact that he did something so despicable as threaten to CS if he wasn’t able to go to spend the night with this woman says to me that he possibly sees this as the turning point - the beginning of his new life with this woman. I imagine that they both expect sleep together/get physical on this trip. She booked his sleeping arrangements?! I mean come on. Why?

He’s said ‘you could come’. I bet there is a reason you can’t.

when you say you met her family? What family? Siblings? Parents? So very very odd.

It’s never an older bloke called Keith who they get these special friendships with is it. You’ve had some great advice op, I’m sending strength. Just look how busy this thread is from women who have been there or who understand how common it is to have a man take us for granted and disrespect us this way.

I think you have entirely focused on him and her - you need to focus on yourself and put it out there what you want!

Start with a temporary separation.

I wouldn’t worry about what he wants - he is directing all the narratives.

At some point you need to stand up and make the decisions - because ultimately he isn’t going to.

Playing PICK ME dance isn’t going to change anything except enlarge his ego.

He has everything he wants at the moment.

Stop setting boundaries for him or asking him for anything. The only person whose behaviour you can control is yours. Decide whether you can live with it (sounds like not, and you shouldn't have to), or whether you want out of the marriage, and do that. If he cared about you, you asking him to stop would matter; he has shown you that he doesn't care. Anything you do now is just doing the pick me dance.

Maybe he will come to his senses, maybe he won't, but you can't control him

OP, I would tell him to leave. He is clearly holding on to the marriage only until he secures the relationship with his girlfriend. Presumably that is what he intends to do on the overnight trip.

The suicide threat is absolutely despicable. I understand you were shocked and cowed into submission at the time but I actually agree with pp who said they would have laughed in his face. Threatening to kill yourself because your wife won't let you see your girlfriend? Ffs.

He's let you down and I think you deserve better.

Yep, this would be an absolute deal breaker for me

I’ll say it again - a man you have to do this for is NOT WORTH having. If HE won’t stop the contact on his accord then there is no relationship to save.

How many women’s doorsteps will you find yourself on before you realise that?

If my DH was enjoying a relationship like this and won’t stop FOR ME, SHE is welcome to him.

I certainly wouldn’t be having a go at the OW. She is not the problem. HE IS.

Good luck today OP. I hope you are talking to him now, as per OchreRaven's wise advice.

You can't keep living in limbo, it's like being tortured by the person who is supposed to love you most.

Keep telling friends and family what's happening. He might be able to lie to himself, but anyone else will instantly see how wrong he was to keep his relationship with this woman secret for a year, while he was buying her presents and meeting her family behind your back.

How dare he put you in a position where you have to meet the relatives of his secret friend and stand there smiling while they tell you what a wonderful man your husband is.

He's not a wonderful man, he's a manipulative liar and liars are ten a penny. You are worth so much better than him.