Something isn't right - emotional affair or just friends?

[FourAndFive]

Name changed for this. It's a bit of a blur, and long, apologies in advance.

I need help and/or a slap to either wake me up to an emotional affair and huge gaslighting from my DH (47), or to help me deal with a shiny new friendship my DH of 24 years has.

He's hidden a friendship from me that has been going on for nearly a year. He has never, ever done this before, and has been a completely open book in all our years together. The last five years have been so good for us emotionally, and our relationship felt solid as far as I was concerned.

He has a hobby that he is obsessed (not lightheartedly obsessed, genuinely obsessed) with, and while doing this hobby he meets people from time to time. He would usually mention these people in passing, and I'm happy he's happy, so all good. About 6-7 weeks ago, he started to mention at funny times how he was meeting 'great people', and 'so many people to chat to' and 'I know so many people now' while he's doing his hobby and I thought yeah, great, but it was out of tone, and quite odd.

Fast forward a week or so, and he keeps name dropping and then tells me that I have to meet someone (single F28), because I'd really like her, and she does the hobby a bit more than he does, and has done it all over the world and how nice she is etc. and so I found myself meeting her for a few hours across two days, alongside some of her family members, who all knew about my DH and the shared hobby and thought how sweet it was... It was so very odd, and I couldn't put my finger on why, and I was so uncomfortable.

To cut a very long story short, it turns out they've been regularly meeting up since late last year, texting multiple times a day, including gifts and planning things around their hobby... I've since seen most of their messages. I have never seen my DH speak to anyone like he speaks to her (except me). He is a man who I know has strong moral boundaries, and keeps a safe distance from other women, doesn't encourage and is completely platonic with all of his female friends - which is clearly no longer the case! There is no 'sex' chat, and he talks about us occasionally (we have 2DC) but it's overly affectionate/mutual appreciation and excitement for finding each other - and I've hated reading them. (I asked him for phone access after all the minimising he was doing, and he said he'd deleted all messages - but he forgot to remove them from his deleted items, so I restored them. I know this is a massive red flag.)

I've told him that I need him to cut all contact with her - but he had serious meltdown (talk of CS), insists it's just friends and that I should trust him. I am finding this impossible, considering the lengths he's taken to hide her until recently. He hasn't done anything to reduce contact, and has even initiated meeting her multiple times, even though I specifically asked him not to. I know they met today for the hobby, and I know they've text each other, because he is telling me - at my request. But I shouldn't worry, because he loves me blah blah. I just want a bit of respite from it so I can get my head around his utterly bizarre behaviour, and consider everything that's happened. It's so unlike him.

I feel sick. The trust isn't there. I feel anxious all the time. I know what I should be doing, but I don't want him to be unhappy at the same time - especially if it is actually platonic. Thoughts please wise MN women! How do I navigate this shit show?

@FourAndFive I dont think he will he will give her up! the best thing you can do is catch them in the act and shame him by sending pics to all his relatives and friends! turn up the hotel they will be staying at at night, (they will be in the same room) having booked a room without him knowing. your dc are teens so they will manage without you! also, when you are ready, let your dc know the full story. he does not deserve to be sheilded from their anger and disgust!! let everyone see what an utter shit he has been manipulating you. they will also see how strong you are.

I'm sorry you're going through this OP.

I am going to CS, there is no point going on - "I am taking everything away from him that I love". So I backed off... He has never mentioned suicide before.

As you have clarified he is not referring to the hobby as you haven’t asked him to give that up: he has basically admitted he is in love with her.

Do you think she has any idea about the depth of his feelings or is he just being a stupid, obsessed, middle-aged idiot??

My marriage ended the same way a couple of years ago. It was an ex colleague. It turned out they were on the phone every day, sometimes up to 12 times. He called her, presumably to say goodnight and good morning, just before or after calling me when he was away with work. They were texting constantly. He called her when I was in the shower, when we were at the airport, and even on Christmas day, but she was a 'friend.'

In their case, they lived hours apart, so I never did find out whether it had become physical, but it wasn't logistically speaking possible most of the time, even when he was away.

What followed was a pathetic display of self pity. I apparently didn't want him to have friends. He was depressed. He would randomly burst into tears. We went to therapy. He would gaslight me constantly.

The threats to kill himself are because you're onto him and he's buying time.

I even sent the woman a text, but I never got a reply.

I had no evidence directly, but I kept digging and it turned out he was using escorts. I left him. Whether he had a full blown affair, I'll never know, but he was cheating in multiple ways. He had checked out. I was only 31 at the time. The woman was several years older and not attractive. It wasn't about her, so don't think it's about the woman. It could be anyone. The point is he wants out of the marriage.

Ultimately, I'm glad it happened. He was a horrible man. I'm about to move in with a lovely new partner and the 'affair' cleared the path for a happier new life in every way.

Have name changed for this, as feel embarrassed about it...

A good few years ago, I found myself part of a regular pub quiz team (mixed sex) and became a bit obsessed with it. I was married, but probably a bit lonely and lost at that time. It was the highlight of my week, very active Whatsapp group and I'd be disappointed if I got a ping and it wasn't that. There was a "core" group of friends, and one particular woman who I clicked with and started messaging and got pretty close to (although was often gutted I wasn't part of the "core" and only occasionally invited to things they did). I would worry about what to wear to fit in, feel anxious I might become less popular and no longer asked to join. When we had a "good" night and I got some answers, and the group made a fuss of me, it felt such a buzz that I feel a bit mortified by it now. I made me and DH arrange holidays so I wouldn't miss the quiz night, id sit on my phone messaging the group ignoring a film I was watching with DH, changed plans I had with him to do things with them etc. For a year or so, I definitely invested much more time, effort and emotional energy in that group and particular woman than my DH. Never about anything sexual, just me feeling like I belonged to something/part of a special fun gang who paid me attention. It did fizzle out/loose it's intensity over a few years and people and lives moved on. Possibly something like this is going on with your DH and he can't see it as comparable to an affair.

However, I'm telling this story because because I can imagine I would have been gutted at the time if my DH had told me cut down this contact. I'd have thought it's just a hobby/friendship group and probably he was jealous and being unreasonable. However on reflection I was overly invested and definitely neglected my DHs relationship. It wasn't really healthy or good for us. (And just to say I'm not normally someone who has unhealthy relationships or hobbies etc, I think it was the time and place I was in).

I think when you are talking to him, it's not about if he's having/thinking about having sex with her. What matters is has she and the hobby become more important than you? Would he rather be with her/the hobby? Would he cancel on you to see her/the hobby? When his phone pings and it's you, not her/the hobby, is he disappointed? If she has taken priority over you, then that is a problem, regardless of what sort of relationship it is.

So sorry op x

This! It sounds like he is definitely infatuated.

So agree about not being a ‘cool wife’!!! Really wish I hadn’t. We really don’t have to be.

Agree - so regret not telling friends and family in my situation - get the cold blast of daylight on this so he can squirm and you can keep your head high and get support in RL.

About the threatening to take his own life, I'm unclear if that was because he thought that OP was going to make him give up with obsessive hobby that's been part of his life since he was 6, or because his marriage was in jeopardy, or because he was being asked to give up the woman. OP, can you clarify what part of the discussion made him so upset?

Her message saying she was worried “it was her” when he was tied up with family matters.That sounds like he has been speaking negativity about you with her.
If after you asked him not to go on the over night trip he still goes I'd have his bags on the front lawn waiting for him. Good luck op .

OP, he should also be worrying about YOUR feelings towards him. He's mooning about lovesick over this woman twenty years his junior. Could he be any more of a pathetic middle-aged cliche? And then, when Mummy threatens to take his toy away, he stamps his ickle foot and threatens to off himself. Those are the amateur dramatics of a fourteen-year-old girl! How did your vagina not clamp shut so hard that the clanging was heard in France? I mean, it's not exactly cool, competent, masculine territory, is it? 😂 Does he jump on a chair squealing if there's a mouse, too? Because he sounds like the type.

My fanny has dried up just reading about your baby-man.

If he hasn't done so already, he is in great danger of giving you the SERIOUS ick, and it's really hard to come back from such heights of ickiness.

I agree.

It sounds like he needs a MASSIVE shock. A real bucket of cold water. Like packing a couple of bags, driving him over to his girlfriend's, ringing the bell, and banging their heads together.

Well, not the last part. Fantasy took over. But if he can't live without her, you take her there to him. Even if they are having a real affair, I highly doubt she's ready to have him and his baggage - both physical and figurative - dumped on her doorstep. If she lives with her parents, even better!

Of course, he could just take his bags and get a taxi home. But your point will have absolutely been made, and he will have received the utter shock that he needs.

Put the bags in the boot, tell him you're going out somewhere nice together, and then dump him on her doorstep. And say "He said he was going to take his own life if he couldn't see you anymore, so you might want to ring the NHS." 😂

She said earlier in the thread is was about the woman not the hobby.

I’m sorry this is happening to you.

I don’t personally think taking a break helps. I think it just creates more distance and whilst this is all novelty for him, he then has the freedom and excuse he needs to take things to the next level.

If you want to save your marriage and you might not, you need to reset your boundaries and like a pp said, if CS is threatened, then say you’ll support him by calling the gp or a psychiatrist. But no, you will not live being placed below another women in this relationship. You require him to cut all ties and attend couples therapy.

I also agree that you should not try to hide this. Tell friends and family what is happening, as it brings his bit of excitement out into the cold light of day, and rather than the situation making him feel good, needed, desired and appreciated….the situation will suddenly feel like something that brings shame, embarrassment, guilt and is messy.

Hes got control at the moment. You need to take that control back. And if he makes the choice to prioritise his ‘friend’ then you have your answer.

When you speak to him next, ensure he knows the consequences of his actions:
CS threat - professional help will be sought for him
Continued interaction with ‘friend’ - divorce
And in-between, family support will be called upon and his secret is out.

Have more fight in you, Op.
You seem to think that no good husband can have fleeting weeks of stupidity.

If you and your husband have something good to protect, insist on also going to the overnight event.

While there plan most of your meals as just you two. Act like a couple and treat the Hobby Friend as just that - a hobby friend.
Sit at tables for two, or tables for ten - never tables for three or four.
Say things like - "You won't mind us having this evening stroll together, just us two." "We've booked a date at the cinema tonight, won't be eating in, see you tomorrow, Hobby Friend."
You might even be able to travel up separately, for good reason. Do any of your children need to visit a uni prospect the day before?

Once back ask genuinely of Hobby Friend why she doesn't C.C. you into Hobby communication with DH.
Make it easy to see that you can see their communication is affronting.
Ask her family whether HF usually becomes obsessed with other hobby friends.

If DH screams suicide again remind him that the person most upset will be you, and your children will never get over it.
Tell him not to be so selfish. Hand him the phone number for emergency mental health in your shire.
If he speaks like that again take him seriously and call that number yourself, for them to make an emergency home visit.
You are not a counseller nor a paramedic.

Act as a wife who has invested much into the marriage and wants a chance for the relationship to heal.
Six months of a forty year marriage will be a mere blip.

I agree with the last two posters
I would tell my family today, get some support in place, this is real and you need people around you who know what is going on
Then get angry with him and tell him it stops once and for all. I wouldn't kick him out yet unless you are sure you want your marriage to end
You need to take control now, as he has lost focus and lost his grip on reality, and is about to lose his wife
I would also be going round to see her family if your husband still insists on seeing her
I really hope you can sort this out OP, wishing you well

Slightly not the point but what would he say if you said you were coming with them on the hobby trip and would share the accommodation, sticking to him like glue?

This really resonates with me. Back in the very early days of t'internet and forums For about 18 months I got completely hooked on a forum for a specific interest I had and the very same thing happened. It was all competely above board, mixed sex bunch, completely harmless. But I had to actually sit in the room where our desktop computer was in those days and DH felt like I was shutting myself off from the rest of the family and ignoring everybody for hours on end to chat to my online friends. Which I was. But again, it was at a time in my life when I had young children and not much opportunity for socialising or conversation that didn't revolve around my kids and being a SAHM. I found the range of conversation topics really interesting and it was a laugh, plus full of useful info on the specific topic it was set up for, which I was very into at the time.

I remember they arranged a meet up once and as we were spread all over the country it involved an overnight stay. DH suggested we all go, then we could take the children to a nearby attraction the following day. And he'd take them out for a pizza or or something while the evening meet up was happening. This was fine with me but only years later did he admit he'd done that to see my reaction and whether I'd try to put him off coming along. He was feeling ignored and insecure and wondered if I was meeting a man from this forum and hoping to spend the night with him.

Then a few years later I discovered MN and the same thing happened. When smart phones were introduced that became even worse, because like you say, you can be wih your loved ones in the same room but paying more attention to people in your phone or lap top than them.

It's very different on here now, very big with everyone much more anonymous, but back then it felt more like being with a group of mates where we knew every detail of one another's lives. I'd be laughing like a drain (back when MN was full of incredibly funny and witty people) every five minutes and DH would be feeling like an unwanted guest at a party where everyone had their backs turned on him. He'd get irritated because he'd be trying to talk to me about something and I'd be nodding and 'mmm-ing' but not really listening. With hindsight, he was completely right to feel that way. It's rude when it goes on too long and it makes people feel insecure and unimportant to you.

But at the time it was really important to me to have these funny, interesting people in my life, even if it was only online. I sort of lived for it. I was addicted, in a way. Although I was never obsessed with any one person, it was still damaging to my relationship with DH because I was spending so much of our joint free time focusing on people who were not him and was behaving a bit like a lovestruck teenager over it.

That would be just so demeaning for OP.

She shouldn't have to physically be his body guard to try to remind him it is her who he is married to and who he made vows to.
A marriage where you can't let your spouse out if your si ght to remind him where his loyalties lie isn't worth anything.

He wouldn't be threatening to kill himself just because he doesn't want to look like the bad guy. He's full of shit. How dare he not respect your boundaries and how dare he manipulate you in that way

I was going to say the same. This is a pivotal event, if he goes off for a weekend away with her, then he’s ramped it up to a whole new level, and rubbed your nose in it in the process.

I had a very similar experience with my first DH, only he booked a 2-week beach holiday with the OW, and there was no coming back from that.

Your DH doesn’t want to see himself as the sad old cliche who’s fallen for a younger, home wrecker type. He doesn’t want to be the arsehole who broke up his marriage and family. He doesn’t want to be seen as a gasp cheater, because that ruins his good guy narrative.
He is throwing all responsibility for his real relationship at OP and is avoiding all accountability. Utter coward.

I agree with all of this, but taking control is pretty difficult unless you’re actually prepared to leave/kick him out. You can tell someone to ‘stop’ until you’re blue in the face, but if they won’t, your options are limited. And finding your anger doesn’t help much either, if they’re really not wanting to stop.