Something isn't right - emotional affair or just friends?

[FourAndFive]

Name changed for this. It's a bit of a blur, and long, apologies in advance.

I need help and/or a slap to either wake me up to an emotional affair and huge gaslighting from my DH (47), or to help me deal with a shiny new friendship my DH of 24 years has.

He's hidden a friendship from me that has been going on for nearly a year. He has never, ever done this before, and has been a completely open book in all our years together. The last five years have been so good for us emotionally, and our relationship felt solid as far as I was concerned.

He has a hobby that he is obsessed (not lightheartedly obsessed, genuinely obsessed) with, and while doing this hobby he meets people from time to time. He would usually mention these people in passing, and I'm happy he's happy, so all good. About 6-7 weeks ago, he started to mention at funny times how he was meeting 'great people', and 'so many people to chat to' and 'I know so many people now' while he's doing his hobby and I thought yeah, great, but it was out of tone, and quite odd.

Fast forward a week or so, and he keeps name dropping and then tells me that I have to meet someone (single F28), because I'd really like her, and she does the hobby a bit more than he does, and has done it all over the world and how nice she is etc. and so I found myself meeting her for a few hours across two days, alongside some of her family members, who all knew about my DH and the shared hobby and thought how sweet it was... It was so very odd, and I couldn't put my finger on why, and I was so uncomfortable.

To cut a very long story short, it turns out they've been regularly meeting up since late last year, texting multiple times a day, including gifts and planning things around their hobby... I've since seen most of their messages. I have never seen my DH speak to anyone like he speaks to her (except me). He is a man who I know has strong moral boundaries, and keeps a safe distance from other women, doesn't encourage and is completely platonic with all of his female friends - which is clearly no longer the case! There is no 'sex' chat, and he talks about us occasionally (we have 2DC) but it's overly affectionate/mutual appreciation and excitement for finding each other - and I've hated reading them. (I asked him for phone access after all the minimising he was doing, and he said he'd deleted all messages - but he forgot to remove them from his deleted items, so I restored them. I know this is a massive red flag.)

I've told him that I need him to cut all contact with her - but he had serious meltdown (talk of CS), insists it's just friends and that I should trust him. I am finding this impossible, considering the lengths he's taken to hide her until recently. He hasn't done anything to reduce contact, and has even initiated meeting her multiple times, even though I specifically asked him not to. I know they met today for the hobby, and I know they've text each other, because he is telling me - at my request. But I shouldn't worry, because he loves me blah blah. I just want a bit of respite from it so I can get my head around his utterly bizarre behaviour, and consider everything that's happened. It's so unlike him.

I feel sick. The trust isn't there. I feel anxious all the time. I know what I should be doing, but I don't want him to be unhappy at the same time - especially if it is actually platonic. Thoughts please wise MN women! How do I navigate this shit show?

Maybe not 100% but a LOT, yes.

Your DH has embraced the 'good guy' persona for so long that he has either got to the point where he is complete denial about the path he is on, or more likely (based on his responses to you pointing out the path he is on!), convinced himself that a little bit of frisson and spark is fine because he would NEVER do anything physical. That he almost 'deserves' to have a bit of an exciting friendship and some 'harmless' fun because he is SUCH A GOOD GUY.

He is heading down a very dangerous road. Because he is not a player/cheater by nature, he may well end up confusing his ego being boosted with feelings of love/'meant to be' etc

I refer back to @OchreRaven 's approach again. It's exactly what he needs to hear.

@Allthegoodonesareg0ne I remember your thread 😢. It’s really good you are able to offer support when it’s all so raw and fresh for you.

Big Hugs to you and your DC. Nothing else counts.

I found out DH was infatuated with another woman and taking her out twice a week. I had loved him deeply for nearly 50 years. Six years later we are still living together but I totally get the vibe that he resents me finding out when they went Ballroom Dancing at a local hotel. Nothing is right between us, resentment and tension all the time. I really feel he still wants to be with OW. She was a new widow of 4 months when it began apparently and she already had a new man in tow. I am sure that man was already in her life before H died. She was a collector of men and I think she still is.

I'm now too old and fragile to divorce now. I should have done it 6 years ago when I was nearer 70.

Look after yourself and DC that is all that matters. He is a lying cheating adulterer and not worth the mud on your shoe. Do not stoop to her level. Just imagine, in your dreams, leaving red crutchless knickers tied to her front door for all her neighbours and family to see! Take that vision to your heart and leave it there. That is all they are worth.

Divorce your H and put all thoughts of anything else away and focus on you and your DC's happiness and future.

Thank you for this, it’s so helpful.

Drip fed, like unbelievably so… then I walked into the bedroom and he hid is phone and I asked him why - he mumbled a bit and then told me who he was texting. I’d already asked him to put distance between them before this happened, because I was finding the whole thing weird.

I'm so sorry this has happened to you. But - and I know this might sound blunt - there's no saving a marriage with someone who's currently threatening to CS over another woman.

Maybe in time there'll be something to save, but right now, you need to focus on you. Is there somewhere you can stay for a while?

My H acted like this too in his 40sOP -it was someone who did some work for us intermittently in her early 20s . Not remotely the kind of guy you would have thought it if and we had a very strong relationship and a business together too . I didn’t find any of this out till 10 years after it all happened. The idiot had left songs he had written and recorded too and poems all about it stuffed in a drawer -which I found- I have no idea if it was just all one sided on his part , he said it was just a crush on his side- but he did used to text an awful lot as I had kept the phone bills - I know how you are feeling Op , I suspect he is infatuated - it may indeed be very much ‘all in his head’ and one sided - but I certainly would make my views known and keep an eye out for shifty behaviour and tell him he needs to cool it as it’s making you unhappy - if he doesn’t then I think you have decisions to make -

I'd have to follow that thread he created tbh, either because jts genuine and you really need to help him get help if that's how frantic he feels at the potential loss of this friendship, or to essentially call his bluff and in doing so hopefully make him realise what a vile thing that is to throw out without thinking onto an already overwrought partner.

A proper sitting down face to face conversation, friendship aside, get him to clarify - is this the only thing tethering you to life now? He has children, a life with you, have they ceased to be important to him? How has a friendship become so all consuming that if it were to end it would cause him to want to cease to exist?

What if she ended the friendship, would he be suicidal? It can happen, she may meet someone herself and pull away, how will he feel when their status quo or dynamic changes? If they're just friends surely she can meet someone, what if she does? What then? What if she leaves the hobby, will he want to die??

Would love to know his answers. And if he tries to gaslight you that he didn't mean it ... no. You don't get to say that and walk away from it.

Hopefully that'll provide clarity to him and you, if he's nit so deep down the selfish rabbit hole he can't see.

Remember your worth op. The lady that you are. Hold your values, your soul and your life away from this man. He is damaged goods now. Please treat him as such.

A good lawyer and your dearest friends should be forming a seal now around you. That is what is required. Please freeze him out. Let him know what the cold feels like. Cut the communication. Let him feel the real experience of life without you. It may be enough to shock him into sensibility. Or you may consider it is over already. Just serve the papers and choose your wellbeing and dignity.

I’m so indignant on your behalf op! Who the hell does he think he is! Please use some of the posts on her to formulate what you want to say and give him a clear ultimatum. You don’t deserve this

@FourAndFive I know you are, but has he told the 'hobby friend' that you are a wife in marital status only? Were you introduced to the others as 'my wife'?

It's hideous, isn't it. I remember it as feeling like I'd been winded (punched hard in the stomach), and I was walking around in a daze.

This! He said exactly that, that he’d need to meet her and explain what’s happened and explain it was his fault.

I said no (this was before the trip came to light), because I know he will downplay it to protect himself and her. I don’t want him to control the narrative. And he doesn’t owe her anything as far as I’m concerned.

OP - All I would say to this is - Go with your gut instinct here. I hope things work out x

If he's determined to meet her and explain , then you should go with him ( your argument could be you know her as well after the intro / spending time with her family )
Bet he won't be as keen then .

Thank you. Things are much better now, but it's been a long road x

Thank you again for posting and all your words of advice. I really do appreciate it. I’m so happy to hear that things are much better now. Much love to you.

I completely understand. It's like entering another reality. It's so hard to find the surface when you're being tossed around under water.
Find your feet and figure it all out from there x

Gosh im so sorry to read this. It sounds so so similar to what I went through with my no exH. He gaslighted me into thinking I was going mad, after we split (various reasons this being one) I found them walking hand in hand on my birthday when we still lived together, all came out in the end and he claims ‘I ruined his happiness’. A womens gut is a powerful thing, trust it. If it dosent feel right it probably isnt and if hes not respectful enough to value your concerns for what he claims to be a friendship then I think you need to have a serious think about your next steps :(

Unfortunately you cannot trust that he will do what he says he will do. Infatuation means that he will follow his feelings wherever they lead him and he will be thinking that this ‘drama’ he is creating equates to life having meaning. That’s the thing with a midlife crisis - they convince themselves that the drama of it all is ‘being alive’ and they haven’t felt this ‘alive’ for years. The whole thing is divorced from reality. Be cool, be clear and don’t let his drama disturb your peace of mind. It’s his chaos and his alone - not yours. You are not an actor in his ridiculous play having your strings pulled according to his whims. Set your own goals. Paddle your own canoe.

Thank you again to everyone who has taken the time to post, it’s been such a help. I cannot tell you.

To those of you who have been through this before, I am listening I promise. You are all amazing. Thank you so much for sharing.

I will find my anger, and my resolve. I’m just desperately sad today.

Understandably. I completely lost my mind when this happened to me. I didn’t function for weeks. It’s desperately sad because there is very little you can do. You won’t recognise him as the man you have known for all these years. You can only be clear with him about what you will, and won’t, tolerate. And then focus only on yourself. Not him. All your energy right now is likely going into him. No more. Look after yourself and prioritise your own wellbeing.

This too shall pass. It really will.

I agree with others, really important to focus on yourself.
Sending strength

@FourAndFive I’m actually welling up reading your post because I so remember that desparately sad feeling - everything I had always thought about us being special and all that -when reality was like an awful lot of others 10 years of marriage in and all it took was a reasonably attractive 20 something giving him the time of day to suddenly make me feel second best and not the priority - we have been married 30 years now and it’s 9 years since I found all this out and if I’m honest I’ve never 100% felt the same since- if I had found out at the time it happened I would have probably hit the roof at the lack of disrespect and consideration - even though as I said, a lot of this may be one sided from his side -

I think to protect yourself copy everything, texts, bank statements, payments of any kind and paperwork. Put all them in a safe place, where they will never see the light, just in case.

Pretending to be happy takes a lot of time and energy, and in a lot of cases, doesn't mean a fork in the road to really being happy.
Ask yourself, based on the recent events, if this is where you really are.