Something isn't right - emotional affair or just friends?

[FourAndFive]

Name changed for this. It's a bit of a blur, and long, apologies in advance.

I need help and/or a slap to either wake me up to an emotional affair and huge gaslighting from my DH (47), or to help me deal with a shiny new friendship my DH of 24 years has.

He's hidden a friendship from me that has been going on for nearly a year. He has never, ever done this before, and has been a completely open book in all our years together. The last five years have been so good for us emotionally, and our relationship felt solid as far as I was concerned.

He has a hobby that he is obsessed (not lightheartedly obsessed, genuinely obsessed) with, and while doing this hobby he meets people from time to time. He would usually mention these people in passing, and I'm happy he's happy, so all good. About 6-7 weeks ago, he started to mention at funny times how he was meeting 'great people', and 'so many people to chat to' and 'I know so many people now' while he's doing his hobby and I thought yeah, great, but it was out of tone, and quite odd.

Fast forward a week or so, and he keeps name dropping and then tells me that I have to meet someone (single F28), because I'd really like her, and she does the hobby a bit more than he does, and has done it all over the world and how nice she is etc. and so I found myself meeting her for a few hours across two days, alongside some of her family members, who all knew about my DH and the shared hobby and thought how sweet it was... It was so very odd, and I couldn't put my finger on why, and I was so uncomfortable.

To cut a very long story short, it turns out they've been regularly meeting up since late last year, texting multiple times a day, including gifts and planning things around their hobby... I've since seen most of their messages. I have never seen my DH speak to anyone like he speaks to her (except me). He is a man who I know has strong moral boundaries, and keeps a safe distance from other women, doesn't encourage and is completely platonic with all of his female friends - which is clearly no longer the case! There is no 'sex' chat, and he talks about us occasionally (we have 2DC) but it's overly affectionate/mutual appreciation and excitement for finding each other - and I've hated reading them. (I asked him for phone access after all the minimising he was doing, and he said he'd deleted all messages - but he forgot to remove them from his deleted items, so I restored them. I know this is a massive red flag.)

I've told him that I need him to cut all contact with her - but he had serious meltdown (talk of CS), insists it's just friends and that I should trust him. I am finding this impossible, considering the lengths he's taken to hide her until recently. He hasn't done anything to reduce contact, and has even initiated meeting her multiple times, even though I specifically asked him not to. I know they met today for the hobby, and I know they've text each other, because he is telling me - at my request. But I shouldn't worry, because he loves me blah blah. I just want a bit of respite from it so I can get my head around his utterly bizarre behaviour, and consider everything that's happened. It's so unlike him.

I feel sick. The trust isn't there. I feel anxious all the time. I know what I should be doing, but I don't want him to be unhappy at the same time - especially if it is actually platonic. Thoughts please wise MN women! How do I navigate this shit show?

What sort of gifts op? I never buy any of my friends random gifts , not sure if that says more about me .

Ultimatum time then OP.

How long have you got until the overnight trip? Ideally you need to know where you would stand legally and financially if it came to a separation.

He doesn't think it will come to that. He's not really facing up to the potential consequences of his choices. He will be shocked to discover that you are taking this seriously, even if he is not.

And yes, tell him that if he threatens to self harm you will call emergency services on his behalf as you are not responsible for his behaviour and will not be manipulated by him. You will help him seek mental health support if his need is legitimate.

Definitely call out the suicide threat -if he says it again call 999.

^ this, and make it clear you will do this.

I think I would go on the overnight trip. If only to signal to the other hobby members.

I'm on my 2nd marriage. There were a few things like this in my 1st marriage and I was such a wimp (and young), and for fear of looking silly, I did nothing. Without boring you with the details, lesson learned.

If I was ever in that position again, I would go fucking ballistic. In your shoes, I would be contacting this woman and telling her to back the fuck off and stop texting my DH. If I knew her address, I'd actually turn up on her doorstep.

How big is the group on this night away? Gaaahhhh, I can feel my anger rising on your behalf.

Been in this situation OP. Guess how it all turned out? Unfortunately, he has shown you who he prioritises. If he agrees to marriage counselling, maybe something can be salvaged. But if not... I wasted 4 more years on the twat, what a waste of time, energy and my own mental health that was. You must do what is right for you - I'm glad you can see through the BS at least.

@FourAndFive where you said you were still very much in love with him, I could just tell how much pain this whole situation is causing you. It must be agony. I'm a similar age to you and also still very in love with a DH of many years and it would rip my heart out if he did this.

Oh, now I may be be a bit of a dick in a situation like this, because I would be planning to divorce him but I would absolutely go to the hobby event just to make things uncomfortable for him.

My husband of 20 years left me. I loved him more than anything and I begged him to stay. For me, for the kids. In the end he just wouldn't. It broke my heart, but I got through it. You will too.

You are wasting your time, money and energy on this dreadful uncaring couple. Divorce is your only real option. I know how much this hurts but your DC needs you as a whole person, not a grieving mess. There are better people out there. Let him have his strumpet, it probably won't last long.

I was also reluctantly invited to the hobby event. Afterwards thought I should have gone, sat in the front of the car with her in the back.

Hi op it sounds like the situation is getting worse if you threaten to leave him or kick him out would he also threaten cs? I agree with others the female isn’t innocent in all this you say you could not see anything obvious from her side but doesn’t mean she isn’t interested in your dh. He’s treating her like she’s the wife and you’re the friend anyone who puts a friendship before marriage is not the husband you think he is. He should be able to let go if it was all innocent but he’s not willing to.

My ex husband had an emotional affair, which by the time I found out, had developed into a physical affair. Just sharing my experience here OP, but it didn’t matter that it became physical, that to me was irrelevant. The damage was done when I found out that for a couple of years she had been his confidant, effectively she had replaced me, without me realising.

As soon as I knew, I threw him out, started divorce proceedings. Because for me I couldn’t get passed what he had done. Even if he begged, promised me that he’d cut contact, anything, it would be futile, because the damage had been done.

Perhaps imagine him agreeing to stop seeing her, even dropping the hobby. You might imagine you’d feel delighted, but dig deeper, would you really? Or would you constantly be watching to see if he was still seeing her? Would you really be able to carry on as if this was a blip in a long happy marriage? Because this doesn’t happen in a happy marriage. Any decent man would not do what he did. And he’s revealed himself, and he’s deceitful and you will never trust him or love him or be loved by him as you deserve to be.

It’s happened, it can’t be swept under the carpet, so don’t waste your energy trying to. You deserve the best, we all do. Don’t compromise, because you’ll regret it. I wish you well.

He is your DP still, he is choosing to behave in this way. He can choose not to. He is not, he is choosing her, and what he wants over you, and your relationship.

It’s beyond painful but it needs to be faced. He may well “ need “ help of some sort or another. Don’t we all sometimes!
He’s not been taken over by some outside force, or undiagnosed illness. He is in plain sight of you, your DC and the hobby friend group having a relationship with another women. One that is causing you untold pain. I get it’s easier to speculate here and in real life about the whys and wherefores. You are understandably trying to protect yourself from the full horror. But, it doesn’t matter why he is doing it. He is doing it, and bluntly in his eyes you’re allowing it. You need to make him realise it’s not allowed. As I said before by your actions not words. Otherwise you’ll be a participant in a slow car crash with the end outcome the same. Except you’ll be done in, and emotionally bruised and battered as he sails off into the sunset.

Take control. He won’t kill himself, despite him behaving like a teenage Romeo.

If your kids can sense / see it too do what you need to do to show them that you are a strong woman who will not put up with being treated like an option or second best. We underestimate how much they take in and showing them you have self worth and deserve better will stay in their heads subconsciously - if they're ever in a bad relationship they'll remember the strength of their mother.

Has he had any mental health issues in the past OP? Because if not, threatening suicide over this is so manipulative.

Yes - in my case I bitterly regret that my sons saw me going along with all of this.

@SaltyCara has nailed it at 12:24

It needs to stop and you need to lay down your firm dealbreaker.

HIm threatening to CS makes it easy in some ways, as it really shows how emotionally attached he is to another woman. So he either gets help for his threats to CS immediately, you'll help him make the call to get support, or he packs a bag and goes as he's told the most horrible lie to shut you up while he carries on mooning after another woman. You're done.

I'm so sorry.

Am very sorry for all you are going through OP. To do with the advice to see the OW and tell her to stop ruining your marriage - I think this is a really bad idea. Whether or not she is knowingly involved in your DH's fantasies, it really is not her responsibility to sort your marriage out. That is your DH's to do. Going to the OW is a bit like a mummy sorting out a quarrel with another child for her DC. It would imo infantilise your DH and remove his responsibility for making an adult decision for himself.
If you really want to save your marriage, tell him that the position he is forcing you into is unacceptable and untenable and you are not going to put up with it. And mean it, As he has threatened cs, say you will contact MH services or he needs to attend couples therapy immediately (throw money at this if necessary to see someone straightaway).
Alternatively, if you feel he would respond better, give him the choice of MH services or as was suggested upthread, a packed bag and off he goes. The risk would be he goes to her and/or comes back later with tail between legs.
So hope you can get through this in the best way for you. 🌺

No - I wouldn't be happy, because ultimately, if he was truthful in the first place we might all be in a happier place now.

I don't want him to be upset, he (seemingly) hates to see me upset and is going great lengths to 'prove' his love at the moment - except the one thing I need him to do, which is step back, cut contact and fix our marriage back to one built on mutual trust and respect.

Thank you for taking the time to post

I've been as clear with the DC as possible - relationships can often be messy, that this will pass, one way or the other - words to that effect. You get the drift.

He has done some mental gymnastics to arrive where he is. He thinks they have an innocent friendship, that you would like her and she would get on with your kids. He somehow believes he can assimilate her into your lives with no fall out or consequences. But his actions don’t align to those beliefs. He kept her a secret, deleted their messages and has made no effort to make you feel comfortable with their connection like agreeing to strong boundaries that he doesn’t cross.

He has compartmentalised this whole situation. He’s so invested in the relationship that reality doesn’t play a part. His threat to CS is evidence of how deep in denial he is. Often people become depressed and even suicidal while having an affair because lying, especially to yourself, is extremely damaging. Especially when you consider yourself a good person.

IMO there is still a chance to shock him out of this before it goes further. Lay out the reality and the choices he has in front of him. Because he does need to choose. The time for introducing a platonic friend that his family would like and accept has long gone. Her continued presence in his life will cause further trauma to you, and your kids who have no doubt picked up on all of this. I would sit him down and say something along the lines of:

‘DH at this point I am unsure of whether I can get over the betrayal of you pursing an inappropriate relationship with another woman despite the hurt you know it is causing me. Nevertheless you have a decision to make. Is your relationship with her more important to you now than our life together, our children’s happiness and mental wellbeing, our future plans, our shared experiences. Imagine your life without me, being a part time father, no more family holidays and not celebrating their milestones together. Consider halving all our assets and possessions —everything we have worked for our entire lives. Accept that we would no longer be a part of each others extended family. If that is not the worst thought you could have, if instead not seeing and talking to this woman would be worse then your decision has already be made. And you need to be honest with yourself and me that our marriage is over.

If that is how you feel, I hope for your sake this woman who is 20 years younger than you, is invested as you in your future together as you will no doubt face extreme challenges when you are in completely different stages of life — but that is for you to navigate. I don’t want an answer now. I want you to really think about it. Take the weekend and we can talk Monday. If you choose this family then you will have a lot of making up to do and will need to cut contact with her and do so in a way that you acknowledge the impact on your marriage. And I will need therapy to rebuild what we have already lost.’

The plain fact is; OW paid for the ‘stay away’, so that OP wouldn’t even realise what was going on.

Excellent advice. He has to choose what he wants his future to look like. He has not thought about what he has to lose because he is so caught up in ‘feelings’ and self-absorbed thoughts. He needs to think about the reality of making a choice.

From what you’ve described, this situation already crosses multiple boundaries that go far beyond a “shiny new friendship.” Whether or not there’s a sexual element, the secrecy, intensity, emotional investment, and resistance to ending contact point toward an emotional affair or, at the very least, a breach of the trust and transparency that your marriage is built on.