Something isn't right - emotional affair or just friends?

[FourAndFive]

Name changed for this. It's a bit of a blur, and long, apologies in advance.

I need help and/or a slap to either wake me up to an emotional affair and huge gaslighting from my DH (47), or to help me deal with a shiny new friendship my DH of 24 years has.

He's hidden a friendship from me that has been going on for nearly a year. He has never, ever done this before, and has been a completely open book in all our years together. The last five years have been so good for us emotionally, and our relationship felt solid as far as I was concerned.

He has a hobby that he is obsessed (not lightheartedly obsessed, genuinely obsessed) with, and while doing this hobby he meets people from time to time. He would usually mention these people in passing, and I'm happy he's happy, so all good. About 6-7 weeks ago, he started to mention at funny times how he was meeting 'great people', and 'so many people to chat to' and 'I know so many people now' while he's doing his hobby and I thought yeah, great, but it was out of tone, and quite odd.

Fast forward a week or so, and he keeps name dropping and then tells me that I have to meet someone (single F28), because I'd really like her, and she does the hobby a bit more than he does, and has done it all over the world and how nice she is etc. and so I found myself meeting her for a few hours across two days, alongside some of her family members, who all knew about my DH and the shared hobby and thought how sweet it was... It was so very odd, and I couldn't put my finger on why, and I was so uncomfortable.

To cut a very long story short, it turns out they've been regularly meeting up since late last year, texting multiple times a day, including gifts and planning things around their hobby... I've since seen most of their messages. I have never seen my DH speak to anyone like he speaks to her (except me). He is a man who I know has strong moral boundaries, and keeps a safe distance from other women, doesn't encourage and is completely platonic with all of his female friends - which is clearly no longer the case! There is no 'sex' chat, and he talks about us occasionally (we have 2DC) but it's overly affectionate/mutual appreciation and excitement for finding each other - and I've hated reading them. (I asked him for phone access after all the minimising he was doing, and he said he'd deleted all messages - but he forgot to remove them from his deleted items, so I restored them. I know this is a massive red flag.)

I've told him that I need him to cut all contact with her - but he had serious meltdown (talk of CS), insists it's just friends and that I should trust him. I am finding this impossible, considering the lengths he's taken to hide her until recently. He hasn't done anything to reduce contact, and has even initiated meeting her multiple times, even though I specifically asked him not to. I know they met today for the hobby, and I know they've text each other, because he is telling me - at my request. But I shouldn't worry, because he loves me blah blah. I just want a bit of respite from it so I can get my head around his utterly bizarre behaviour, and consider everything that's happened. It's so unlike him.

I feel sick. The trust isn't there. I feel anxious all the time. I know what I should be doing, but I don't want him to be unhappy at the same time - especially if it is actually platonic. Thoughts please wise MN women! How do I navigate this shit show?

He's said she doesn't have many friends, has her own health issues, and he's come to the rescue - so I'm sure there is more to it on her side, but I don't think it shifts into affair territory in her head. Who knows though.

Damsel in distress and knight in shining armour. A few pp describe this, including me.

He has already got a foot out of the door. I speak from experience. Itsjust friends until, it isnt. Hehas carved out a secret friendship for a prolonged amount of time with a much younger woman and hidden it. My husband did the same last year. Even if it's no sex talk it's looking for attention and validation from someone else first. My husband's messages were about music, they both happened to like the same band, at first glance the messages were not salacious butit was when they were sent, context. I went mental and did various things to shut it down. Distance helped. But unless hecan see what he is doing is microcheating then you will not be able to move past it. The just friends bookis an eye opening read.

I would tell him that he can absolutely go to this overnight event with her … but you will be spending your time alone applying for a divorce .

overnight with her, I said I wasn't comfortable with it, I then found out she'd booked and paid for it and I just said - NO.

What has been booked, @FourAndFive ? The event or the event and overnight accommodation?
What accommodation has been booked? Even if it is separate rooms, it still sounds as dodgy as f**k.

I've just downloaded the Just Friends book, thanks to those who have recommended it. He is out this evening with his friends (legit), so I'm going to spend the evening with the DC.

Someone asked if the DC know, and yes, they do to some extent - and before it got to the point of me asking him to cut all contact, they both thought the constant drip feeding from him about his new friend was completely out of character, the side-eye from them was very telling. According to my H (back when the drip feeding started) he thinks the kids will also get on with her... It's just absolutely bonkers, isn't it.

Mumsnet really is amazing. A therapy session with the wisest women - a chance to really get things off your chest. They more I go into it, the more resolute I become.

Thank you for taking the time, sharing your stories, and helping me cut through the noise.

The event includes accommodation - there is a choice of venues.

I’ve just read what you’ve reported about her message saying she was worried “it was her” when he was tied up with family matters.

I think you could be reading her wrong when you say that she may not be that into him and just sees it as hobby-friends: that message is her actively pulling him into an emotional relationship which is not just about the hobby.

You say he sees himself as the good guy and the rescuer: it sounds like there’s something quite intense in the dynamic between them. Which may also fit with his uncharacteristic and weird as well as upsetting and inappropriate threat made to you.

I thought the point made about cross fit was good: is there anything in the dynamic around the hobby that is encouraging a sort of culty over investment?

He’s scared to tell her he might not be able to make the overnight stay.

he’s scared to upset her hence his extreme reaction. It’s far easier to upset and hurt you.

I am so sorry you’re going through this. It’s horrific. You will be in a spin for a while and soon the fog will begin to clear. You will find your way in your own time.

One thing I found help to guide me was imagining myself two years down the line looking back at myself. I did not want to see myself having begged or try too hard with my exh not reciprocating.

God it is horrible. And as you say, what on earth for? Not much. My exh isn’t even with his ap anymore!

All power to you and I hope clarity comes to you along with strength to do what you feel is best. For you and your dcs. Not your h.

💐

Just good friends- great book
it won’t take you many pages to see the light

Yes, and no. Tthe whole vibe is quite cult-y honestly.

I'm sorry that I don't want to divulge it.

I do think she's desperate for friendship.

He's taking you and your stable family life for granted. You're wallpaper to him.

He's trying to call all the shots: be in charge of the direction of his relationship with this woman (hence the treat to CS over pulling out of the overnight event); being overly attentive to you so that you stay where you are. He doesn't want to risk his home life shattering because he doesn't know if there's a future with this woman - he's treading water.

You are not a person with feelings and deserving of consideration in all this. He's completely swept up in whatever is going on, and disregarding you entirely.

That in itself would be enough for me. The selfishness PLUS the lack of care for you is a hop, skip and jump from contempt for you accepting what he's putting you through.

And this is without him having the emotional intelligence and maturity to understand that being married to someone and having children, even 17 and 20yo, comes with responsibilities that you just can't play around with.

So he'd rather be dead than not be able to see this other woman? And he didn't see anything weird about telling you that? And you didn't immediately say WTF?

Oh OP I've read the whole thread and feel so awful for you. Three things stick out to me -

1. She's got mentionitis - talking about your husband so much that her family are all excited about meeting him? That's not someone who's not interested, sorry.
2. His suicide threat. This gives me rage having grown up with a father who threatned suicide regularly as a means to control my lovely mum. They are long divorced now and of course he's very much alive. It's such a vile thing to do I could never get past it.
3. Her questioning whether the sudden drop in contact was "because of her" - clearly she knows the relationship with her is wholly inappropriate

For me, if the trust goes it's almost impossible to rebuild. But you need to follow your gut here and do not let yourself be made a mug out of by him or her

Have you suggested going with him to this event, treat it as a weekend away to see what his reaction would be?

I understand why the OP didn’t react with wtf because it is just so left field - takes a while ) and a village, as we see on here) to digest it.
However it now needs a cold hard conversation.

• the event can’t go ahead.

In the early days of my own situation, a friend I confided in told me that the early morning training sessions had to stop -I feebly said that the only time he can make it and he trains a whole group. Later discovered it was the only times SHE could make it, so he would leap happily out of bed with me in rail/hail/snow etc in the dark at 5am to go train her on the river 😔😔.
I should have listened to my friend and just told him NO.
In this case the European trip has to be a straight no. If he doesn’t agree immediately (and he won’t😔😔😔) and show proof of cancellation then bin him and tell all your friends family why and start divorce proceedings.

Overnight? Absolutely not. You go with him or nobody goes. This has gone way too far already. These things are gradual OP, it all starts small with ‘where’s the harm?’ ‘Just a friend’ and gets incrementally worse where each small boundary gets crossed until where they are seems ok to them and perfectly normal, but the new people to their party are horrified.
No way would I agree to this. Absolutely not!

And I wish I had told out friends and family. Get it out the open.

I've read thru and the overnight event and she has paid for it would be a massive no. What else is he going to hide from you? He goes and sleeps with her and says we'll it was an overnight and we both have so much in common. He is asking to have this woman as a GF while you offer stability at home. Exciting outside the home with another woman and you keeping everything together. He is effectively asking you to support him falling in love with this other woman. I mean is she simple and doesnt realise what he is doing? She thinks he is safe as he is married with kids. Id go and speak to her. I know so.many people are itching to know the hobby. This type of devotion and cult type behaviour screams role play, table top or fantasy. Having a young better player who he fancies is a dream come true.

Have you posted about this before OP? There was an identical thread recently, literally identical. My response here is the same as on the other thread - this is all completely unacceptable. It’s at least an emotional affair, men will very easily turn it into more without even thinking about it, no matter how fantastic they are, how unlikely they would ever be to have an affair. It will happen.
Im sorry you’re going through this.

If he's willing to go into some type of therapy or counselling, I think that's a good idea. I'd want to address his suicide threat. Either he's emotionally manipulating you or he's genuinely feeling panicked or despondent at the possibility of not seeing this woman, in which case not only is the relationship is dire straits, but he needs professional help. That's not remotely a normal response to the situation.

As for the woman, she may be naive for her age, but she's 28, not 18. That's old enough to have a little more sense of what is normal in relationships, surely. I'd just be careful of assuming she's entirely innocent, though ultimately it's your husband who is responsible for how he behaves towards her and maintaining appropriate boundaries out of respect for you.

Oh, I had plenty to say, plenty. But I had to back down at that point too.

Please get your paperwork in order.

No, I haven't - this is all brand new.

@FourAndFive why did you “have to” back down?