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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Sex in marriage and consent...

139 replies

RenaultClio · 09/08/2025 06:07

I guess I need a sense check. I'm mid forties, been married 20 years to my childhood sweetheart. Sex is... fine sometimes quite enjoyable, other times I get it done if you know what I mean. But sometimes I don't want to have sex or I'm asleep. Last week I woke up and he had both fingers inside me (one in each place sorry to be graphic). I led completely still and then he had sex with me. I was totally silent and not moving the entire time. He finished and without saying anything got up and went away. It happened again a few days later exactly the same except I put a pillow over my head to sort of get away? I don't expect rose petals and soft music (literally never happened!) But I had hoped for more than this in my marriage.
I would like to know whether others "get it
done"? that's normal right... sometimes it's a bit of a chore but you know it'll be OK and he'll feel better and I might even enjoy it. Also I want to tell him to stop doing stuff when I'm asleep, it feels... weird.
He's otherwise a very nice man, great with he kids, does loads of housework, sorts all the money out etc. Just a bit hard work when it comes to sex.

OP posts:
unsync · 12/08/2025 19:56

@SquishedMallow and @K8ate shame on you for being rape apologists. In MN parlance - give your heads a wobble and do better.

@RenaultClio I hope you are OK. Take care of yourself.

SquishedMallow · 13/08/2025 09:36

K8ate · 11/08/2025 16:40

Forget the nut job replies on here that could put him in prison if you follow their advice.
You’ve stated he’s a good partner so the next step is to have a frank and honest discussion about what is acceptable to you.

I agree with you for what it's worth. But the replies on here were all very predictable.

MiloMinderbinder925 · 13/08/2025 10:20

SquishedMallow · 13/08/2025 09:36

I agree with you for what it's worth. But the replies on here were all very predictable.

I'm sure it was you on another thread telling women that they signed away consent when they signed their marriage certificate.

TwistedWonder · 13/08/2025 10:28

Of course the responses are predictable because no decent people are rape apologists.

SquishedMallow · 13/08/2025 10:37

MiloMinderbinder925 · 13/08/2025 10:20

I'm sure it was you on another thread telling women that they signed away consent when they signed their marriage certificate.

I 100% did not ever say such crap.

I'm reporting your post for spreading misinformation that may goad others.

I have zero idea where you got such utter tripe from.

MiloMinderbinder925 · 13/08/2025 10:45

SquishedMallow · 13/08/2025 10:37

I 100% did not ever say such crap.

I'm reporting your post for spreading misinformation that may goad others.

I have zero idea where you got such utter tripe from.

Edited

Perhaps I'm mistaken. Why do you think that posters here telling the OP that she's been raped are nut jobs?

BustyLaRoux · 13/08/2025 11:16

MiloMinderbinder925 · 13/08/2025 10:45

Perhaps I'm mistaken. Why do you think that posters here telling the OP that she's been raped are nut jobs?

Don’t worry, this poster routinely offends and falls out with pretty much everyone on here! One ought to ask themselves why….

SquishedMallow · 13/08/2025 11:22

MiloMinderbinder925 · 13/08/2025 10:45

Perhaps I'm mistaken. Why do you think that posters here telling the OP that she's been raped are nut jobs?

It was obvious those responses would be blanket "correct" and everyone else would be "rape apologists who dared to even suggest police/rape/rape crisis centres " may be an extreme choice.

Whether you like it or not : it is a grey area.

Example 1: a woman is threatened by no reason by a man that she doesn't know. He puts his hands on her neck and leaves bruises. Kicks her abd runs away. That is 'assault'

Example 2: two teen boys fall out with each other. They exchange insults. Boy 2 spits at boy 1 (the spit doesn't quite reach him ) he cycles off. Boy 1 has just been "assaulted" legally.

Example 3: mum frog marches her 15yr old daughter to the drs surgery to insist her Dr inserts a contraceptive implant. Daughter doesn't want it and feels forced into it. The nurse doesn't question the daughter any further but goes ahead and puts the implant it . The daughter has legally been "assaulted".

Assault is a crime. All 3 fall under "assault" . Police for all ? You could. But you would ?

Rape:

Example 1: man unknown to woman drags her into an alley and violently rapes her under threat.

Example 2: woman enjoys a date with a hot guy. Got guy invites her back to watch a movie. She believes it's just a movie and a kiss and cuddle. He wants sex. Whilst they're watching the movie he starts trying to put his hand down her trousers. She feels uncomfortable and awkward and says she's not really up for that yet. He pressures her and carries on undressing her. She feels uncomfortable and repeats "I'm not really ..." He pretends she isn't making attempts to protest and sticks his penis in her. She ends up with it happening to her through fear and shock and feeling frozen. She brings it up with him the next day and he texts "come on, you know what we were going back to my place for , don't play the innocent, you enjoyed it as much as I did ".

A very black and white example. A more covert example that we can see is rape but could easily be twisted in court by the perpetrator.

Now: married couple. They're married. Long term. Very much known to each other. Regular consensual sex.

  • no abuse or history of in any category
-respectful in all ways usually.

The husband initiates sexual contact whilst the wife is asleep. There has never been any agreement or disagreement whether this is ok. (These people are married and have good knowledge of each other) Many couples are ok with initiating sex whilst the other is asleep and it goes from there. Horrifying if done to you by a randomer. But it is something married or long term together people can and do do.

Now : woman allows penetration, is awake and it happens and husband finishes. Wife said nothing during or afterwards. Unusual practice to not communicate that you didn't like it or want it when the person is someone you do not fear and are long term together with.

It's obvious that the first port of call (to me anyway) in this scenario, would be to have a conversation and make it very clear that you did not like that and it will not be happening again.

It's grey: and I get that. You can argue from both angles. But I do stand by mine.

Adding to this : chance of conviction is nil. So why competitively encourage her to label herself a rape victim and put herself through police services to zero avail ?

If there's kids involved - an otherwise happy home life is smashed to smithereens over a desire to label this act and her husband.

To me : it's feminists desperate to prove a point on a technicality, that in the process ruins both their lives (for ultimately no end point ) and achieves maximum drama for all involved.

In this particular scenario: I maintain: a conversation is a starting point.

SquishedMallow · 13/08/2025 11:26

BustyLaRoux · 13/08/2025 11:16

Don’t worry, this poster routinely offends and falls out with pretty much everyone on here! One ought to ask themselves why….

I really don't. There is a poster with a very similar name to me. You may be getting us confused. I stand by my posts and believe they are good pints and well intentioned. I refuse to be silenced by "feminists" with an agenda. We need balanced alternative opinions. I won't budge.

MiloMinderbinder925 · 13/08/2025 11:40

@SquishedMallow

You don't understand what rape is. By law you must be able to consent throughout the act.

But sometimes I don't want to have sex or I'm asleep. Last week I woke up and he had both fingers inside me (one in each place sorry to be graphic). I led completely still and then he had sex with me. I was totally silent and not moving the entire time. He finished and without saying anything got up and went away. It happened again a few days later exactly the same except I put a pillow over my head to sort of get away?

The OP clearly says she sometimes doesn't want to have sex (non consenting) and she was asleep when he sexually assaulted her (you can't consent when you're asleep).

It's a common response to trauma to freeze. Many victim's of assault, freeze, it's your body's way of protecting you. Freezing during an assault does not mean you are consenting.

The legal definition of rape is in three parts:

(1) A person (A) commits an offence if—
(a) he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person (B) with his penis,
(b) B does not consent to the penetration, and
(c) A does not reasonably believe that B consents.

We know b Is true because the OP says she didn't consent and she was asleep when he began the assault. He had sex with her (a) and he thought she was asleep (c) and you can't consent when you're asleep.

I hope that clarifies that rape took place. You don't resolve rape with a conversation as it's a gross violation of someone's rights, it's a criminal act and it's deliberate. He's done it several times and it has a detrimental effect on the survivor's mental health. It's highly abusive and we don't encourage women to stay with abusers.

SquishedMallow · 13/08/2025 11:52

MiloMinderbinder925 · 13/08/2025 11:40

@SquishedMallow

You don't understand what rape is. By law you must be able to consent throughout the act.

But sometimes I don't want to have sex or I'm asleep. Last week I woke up and he had both fingers inside me (one in each place sorry to be graphic). I led completely still and then he had sex with me. I was totally silent and not moving the entire time. He finished and without saying anything got up and went away. It happened again a few days later exactly the same except I put a pillow over my head to sort of get away?

The OP clearly says she sometimes doesn't want to have sex (non consenting) and she was asleep when he sexually assaulted her (you can't consent when you're asleep).

It's a common response to trauma to freeze. Many victim's of assault, freeze, it's your body's way of protecting you. Freezing during an assault does not mean you are consenting.

The legal definition of rape is in three parts:

(1) A person (A) commits an offence if—
(a) he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person (B) with his penis,
(b) B does not consent to the penetration, and
(c) A does not reasonably believe that B consents.

We know b Is true because the OP says she didn't consent and she was asleep when he began the assault. He had sex with her (a) and he thought she was asleep (c) and you can't consent when you're asleep.

I hope that clarifies that rape took place. You don't resolve rape with a conversation as it's a gross violation of someone's rights, it's a criminal act and it's deliberate. He's done it several times and it has a detrimental effect on the survivor's mental health. It's highly abusive and we don't encourage women to stay with abusers.

I think you've ignored most of what I've written in my post to be honest. (It was long , granted) But I still stand by what I've written.

MiloMinderbinder925 · 13/08/2025 11:58

SquishedMallow · 13/08/2025 11:52

I think you've ignored most of what I've written in my post to be honest. (It was long , granted) But I still stand by what I've written.

I read your post and the situation here is not a 'grey area' as the three components of the law are evident. I have no idea why you're making excuses for a rapist but let's hope the OP doesn't take any notice and gets away.

Thingamebobwotsit · 13/08/2025 11:59

I am sorry but I find it really disheartening that in this day and age we are still (among predominantly women) arguing over what is consent, and what is acceptable.

What is clear from this thread is (a) general consensus is that what the OP posted about is not normal, nor acceptable (b) that what is happening in context described, would be classed as assault and (c) that OP has a very hard road ahead of her, whatever she decides to do or not do about this.

So sad that as a group of wmone we seem to have decided to fight each other rather than offering pratlctocal advice.

@RenaultClio I hope you are ok. And please do speak to your GP. They won't judge and will be able to help you think through next steps.

surprisebaby12 · 13/08/2025 12:03

Sex without consent is rape.

A man cannot use your body as he wishes, it has to be consensual. You do not have to do it if you don’t actively want to, in fact you shouldn’t!

definitely need to have a conversation about boundaries with him

BlondieMuver · 13/08/2025 12:18

Lots of advice but can I just add, he's not a nice man.

Your minimising his behaviour.

That isn't a safe environment. You know it's not as your not calling him out on his behaviour.

I was in a similar marriage and I would bet your dh has other behaviours that are controlling, toxic and unhealthy. Sadly you just don't recognise them -yet.

Please look after yourself.

EBearhug · 13/08/2025 12:26

Sex without consent is rape, and you can't consent when you're asleep. People aren't nutjobs to point this out. It is legally wrong, not just something to feel weird about, or think everyone goes through it. The OP needs to understand this; what she then does with that understanding is her choice, but it wouldn't be a valid choice without understanding the legal position.

Secondstart1001 · 13/08/2025 12:59

@SquishedMallow you clearly have too much time on your hands and your posts are not helpful. I feel you are hyjacking this post and robbing the op of any real help and clarity ( if she’s still reading). Do the right thing and leave the thread or create your own where you can debate until your heart is content!

SquishedMallow · 13/08/2025 13:05

Secondstart1001 · 13/08/2025 12:59

@SquishedMallow you clearly have too much time on your hands and your posts are not helpful. I feel you are hyjacking this post and robbing the op of any real help and clarity ( if she’s still reading). Do the right thing and leave the thread or create your own where you can debate until your heart is content!

I didn't debate. My post was @ - hence I responded. You do not get to police my valid opinions and produce an echo chamber.

How you've deduced I have too much time on my hands for merely replying in depth to accusations against me is just a cheap low blow and a personal attack.

Luckily, people like you and your personal insults (which are very much not true by the way ) show up your side of the debate very well. "Agree with the narrative or I get nasty".

SquishedMallow · 13/08/2025 13:07

EBearhug · 13/08/2025 12:26

Sex without consent is rape, and you can't consent when you're asleep. People aren't nutjobs to point this out. It is legally wrong, not just something to feel weird about, or think everyone goes through it. The OP needs to understand this; what she then does with that understanding is her choice, but it wouldn't be a valid choice without understanding the legal position.

I never said anyone was a "nut job". Not my words. I do however stand by my lengthy post explaining my stance. And the reasons why are all in it.

SquishedMallow · 13/08/2025 13:11

MiloMinderbinder925 · 13/08/2025 11:58

I read your post and the situation here is not a 'grey area' as the three components of the law are evident. I have no idea why you're making excuses for a rapist but let's hope the OP doesn't take any notice and gets away.

I don't recall offering "excuses for a rapist" . That's your hyperbolic over emotive take on it.

But have your way. I've said my (balanced ) opinion. Have your echo chamber. Let's hope you're there for OP when her and her children's previously stable life descends into utter chaos. When maybe , just maybe, a conversation and an assertion of boundaries could have been a more sensible starting point in these circumstances.

Secondstart1001 · 13/08/2025 13:13

@SquishedMallow why do you think single parent hood is chaos? Or unstable? It’s generally more stable and calm as the woman no longer feels stressed about having a man in the house. Home becomes what it should always be, which is a safe haven. The op will be able to sleep peacefully at night without fear of assault.

MiloMinderbinder925 · 13/08/2025 13:22

SquishedMallow · 13/08/2025 13:11

I don't recall offering "excuses for a rapist" . That's your hyperbolic over emotive take on it.

But have your way. I've said my (balanced ) opinion. Have your echo chamber. Let's hope you're there for OP when her and her children's previously stable life descends into utter chaos. When maybe , just maybe, a conversation and an assertion of boundaries could have been a more sensible starting point in these circumstances.

I'm certainly willing to try to understand your point of view. Given the fact that the OP experienced a non consensual sexual assault as defined by the law, and has experienced it repeatedly, why do you think a conversation about boundaries would help?

SquishedMallow · 13/08/2025 13:28

@MiloMinderbinder925 @Secondstart1001 : can I be honest ? I don't want to engage anymore on this thread as I feel the replies are starting to become personal attacks aimed at me and I can see that only escalating further. I don't think that's going to end up being beneficial to anyone.

You are allowed your stance. I am allowed mine. My thoughts are detailed in the long post I wrote.
I feel it explains my thoughts coherently.

I am trying to give my viewpoint in a logical, constructive way with rationale for my stance.

I'm having posts call me names, make personal insults and fabricating my supposed posting history. That's turning very personal and once we've digressed to that level, it's no longer constructive.

Op if you're reading: talk through your feelings with someone you trust wholly (sister, friend, therapist, helpline) good luck.

BustyLaRoux · 13/08/2025 13:31

SquishedMallow · 13/08/2025 11:26

I really don't. There is a poster with a very similar name to me. You may be getting us confused. I stand by my posts and believe they are good pints and well intentioned. I refuse to be silenced by "feminists" with an agenda. We need balanced alternative opinions. I won't budge.

Actually yes, the poster I was thinking of isn’t you. They have one letter different in their username. I’m glad you pointed that out to me. I’m sorry for getting the two of you confused.

I do still think telling the OP in this thread that “people will jump to tell you it’s rape” is very unhelpful and dangerous advice. She has, of course, been raped. It’s not a viewpoint that hysterical women are jumping to. It’s legally defined as rape. By downplaying this person’s experience you are, perhaps inadvertently and well meaning, sounding like a rape apologist. I would say 99% of the people who have taken the time to post on here are fairly categorical about what has happened to this person. You’ve warned her to be careful of this advice. I really think you should think again.

SquishedMallow · 13/08/2025 13:40

BustyLaRoux · 13/08/2025 13:31

Actually yes, the poster I was thinking of isn’t you. They have one letter different in their username. I’m glad you pointed that out to me. I’m sorry for getting the two of you confused.

I do still think telling the OP in this thread that “people will jump to tell you it’s rape” is very unhelpful and dangerous advice. She has, of course, been raped. It’s not a viewpoint that hysterical women are jumping to. It’s legally defined as rape. By downplaying this person’s experience you are, perhaps inadvertently and well meaning, sounding like a rape apologist. I would say 99% of the people who have taken the time to post on here are fairly categorical about what has happened to this person. You’ve warned her to be careful of this advice. I really think you should think again.

Edited

Thanks for admitting the mix up- I appreciate that.

(It's not the first time it's happened in the last few days 🙈 and I'm left thinking "I never said that !?") Think a name change is in order 😬.

My Initial post may not have been worded tactfully I agree.

I'm afraid I do stand by my post earlier (it's a long one , so many people probably won't read it granted ) but it explains fully my viewpoint and I hope it at least comes across in the way intended and why my stance is different)

It isn't about me saying "sounds absolutely fine to me"
It's me saying , within these particular circumstances i believe a conversation is tjr starting point and I've detailed why.

Anyway, thanks for having the dignity to admit to the error - appreciated.

I am leaving the thread as some of the replies are becoming personal attacks and ultimately no good is going to come out of that and it will end up derailing the thread if it's all insult flinging.