Has anyone successfully recovered from infidelity with couple’s therapy?

[TreadingTrepidatious]

Infidelity was discovered within my marriage last night, and we have an appointment with a marriage counselor on the 24th (which feels like forever away!). Just wondering if it’s helped anyone to get their marriage back to a good place, and if you’d be willing to talk about the process. Thanks in advance

@TreadingTrepidatious much as I’ve enjoyed the righteous indignation, fury and assumptions of parallels with others’ situations that your thread had provoked, can I ask: How are you doing? Are you making any progress??

op, marriages can recover from infidelity.

mine has.

we did try therapy, which was unsuccessful (therapist wanted to dig into DW's relationship with her DM, which she wasn't comfortable with at that time).

but it has recovered because we have both committed fully to do whatever was needed, including:

• full transparency (not restriction, as that is not sustainable).

• regular open conversation about feelings, frustrations.

• genuine remorse.

• backing up the commitment with clear unequivocal actions.

• patience.

but above all, a recognition from both of us that our lives can be better with each other in them.

this also needs to be separated from child considerations. any reconciliation has to be because you both agree it's best for you both as individuals and as a couple.

if that is genuinely the case, then it should consequently be good for your children as well.

if either one of you buries your needs in order to protect the children, that is likely to resurface again at some point, which will likely then be more harmful.

DW and i were remarking to our children just the other day, that we are more in love with each other now than we have ever been.

this is largely because the affair changed how honest we are with each other, and how we are now much more effective at communicating with each other.

This has been my experience.
It's definitely not the infidelity that makes for a better relationship, but the outcome of the work that you both have to be willing to put in and the renewed focus on each other.

DH and I have been to a few couple’s counseling sessions. I’m not sure how much they have actually helped in and of themselves, but we are actually doing really well.

We went through the initial “full transparency phase,” where the betrayer answered all the questions the betrayed had about the affair honestly. The betrayed has really put in an effort to make the betrayer feel sexually desired and to connect through meaningful conversation. We feel especially close to one another right now.

We are trying to rebuild the trust, but I know that will take time… The betrayed is going on holiday with our children and leaving the betrayer home for several days, which I think is a good opportunity for rebuilding.

And this is one of the biggest issues I have with reconciliation.

The manipulation of the missing needs narrative that means usually a betrayed spouse turning them upside down to make a cheater feel sexually anything. Then the hysterical bonding and reclaiming. That actually when the shock starts to wear off it can be extremely harmful.

1.Its driven by trauma rather than true intimacy, sexual desire and is really routed in fear.

2.Underpinned by fear creates a bigger power inbalance in the relationship. Your so called loving spouse relys on the missing needs theory to justify their gross betrayal of you, so the need fill that need for sex to stop it happening again becomes center.
Despite the fact that need wasn't actually a need at all. It was a want. And when the shock wears of the realisation that filling that so called need actually clashes with a betrayeds need to feel safety and security.

3.It can be incredibly harmful when the shock clears and be very re traumatising for a betrayed spouse when they consider if they actually wanted to engage in anything sexual or if it was as stated above from fear rather than desire.

Your take on love is very interesting and a good example of how people convince themselves cheating is ever ok. Because its routed in defining love in what the other person does for you. Not what you do or contribute to the other person.

By that definition you can 100% be convinced that you can love someone and cheat on them. The question isnt though if the cheater can say the love the person they cheated on.

Its if that definition of love is something a betrayed spouse can live with.

I couldn't. Its no different than my husband walking up and punching me in the face. That extent of harm is not routed in love. Neither is sexual assault. Which I see cheating as if you are still engaging in sex with a partner.

Its all routed in the cheater failing to control themselves and their so called need to prioritise their feelings in a moment over the incredible harm they will cause to someone else.

I also laughed so hard with the couldn't stop themselves. We all have free will in life. And every minute of every day we choose who we are, how we show up, how we engage with others. All in our control

@TreadingTrepidatious

I completely agree with everything @Whatado has written and I am reconciled many years!

I absolutely baulk at the idea of making my cheating husband feel more ‘sexually desired’ and helping my cheating husband feel more connected by having ‘meaningful conversations’ he broke me, he betrayed me, he abused me, abused my trust AND traumatised me, it is not on me and never was on me to fix it! It was on him.

I was not and never will be responsible for his good feels, ego kibbles and validation he needs to do that for himself, as I do, that is a healthy dynamic.

He is not responsible for my happiness and I am not responsible for his.

Healthy reconciliation is not about meeting another persons ‘needs’ shit happens in life, there are plenty of things that will bring us down, I won’t be able to always be 100% present, neither will he but we now both understand that that is no excuse to cause harm to the other.

You may find once the dust settles the betrayed sees this and becomes increasingly resentful of the narrative being spun, that’s when reconciliation is likely to fall apart!

Adding to above by saying thankfully my husband recognised that his cheating was led by his own flaws, selfishness and entitlement. He does and has never said I could have done xyz to have prevented his poor decisions and choices. It was on him and he owns that.

Totally agree with this.

My husband owns what happened, bitterly regrets it and understands why it did happen.

This. Exactly.
That's when you can start to really heal and address anything that needs addressing in the relationship.
The only person responsible for cheating is the cheater.

As I believe I’ve spoken about before, there are “justifications” for a behaviour, which carries a moral connotation (“my action was morally correct because…”) and there are “reasons” for a behaviour, which is morally neutral (“I did this because…”)

In my situation, the betrayer isn’t justifying the affair; the betrayed wanted to know the reasons for the betrayer’s actions, and they were given. The betrayer has made sure to remind the betrayed that these actions will never be justifiable, and that the affair was not the betrayer’s fault whatsoever, which are easy… beliefs? Interpretations? to fall into, as we have found out. Neither of us believe that cheating is okay.

In general, if we consider Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs, “needs” are not simply “if I don’t have these things I will die,” but also “if I don’t have these things, I cannot be content or well.” The latter definition extends beyond the physical needs to include the psychological, emotional, and social needs as well. “Love and belonging” are actually not all the way at the top of the hierarchy, but rather in the middle, meaning that social needs are also quite important…Within the context of a relationship, I will continue to see the betrayer’s lack of feeling desired (frequency of sex was satisfactory) and lack of connection through deep conversations with the betrayed as unmet needs. I think it is quite dismissive to demote them to “wants.” Doing so also makes it easy to paint the affair as “the betrayer wanted to cheat and to hurt the betrayed for this cheap/unnecessary thing they were seeking,” rather than “the betrayer didn’t want to cheat or hurt the betrayed, but failed to make the morally correct decision to remain faithful when temptation arose, and that failure was heavily influenced by the betrayer’s unmet needs.” (Again, the latter neither removes responsibility nor agency from the betrayer while also acknowledging their internal conflict.)

With that being said, I believe it is a married person’s obligation to ensure one’s spouse’s needs needs are met to the best of their ability. A good partner will not only meet more basic needs, like safety and security, but also the higher needs, like feeling desired and connected to the other. These are important aspects of feeling loved, but it is possible to still love somebody and not meet those needs for them.

Since we are reconciling, both of us still need to meet each other’s needs, regardless of past actions. It would hinder us from moving forward towards recovery if the betrayed were to say to the betrayer “Well, you’ve gone and made me feel insecure; therefore I don’t have to put in the effort to meet your needs.” Rather, we are trying to rebuild the betrayer’s sense of security in addition to ensuring the betrayer feels desired and connected, in the way that they need. Obviously the former is much more difficult and time intensive than the latter, so I can see how that can be misinterpreted as one spouse’s needs superseding the other’s… The goal is not to leverage the betrayer’s sense of insecurity to get the betrayer’s needs met, but rather to remove the insecurity and to get both spouses’ needs met.

Loads of word salads on this thread.

My observation is that it’s fucking funny how these men all want therapy when they’ve been caught with their hand in the cookie jar. They don’t seem to need it beforehand …

Why not get counselling beforehand to sort these issues out instead of sleeping with someone else?

As I said upthread, your partner needs to leave you because you are toxic!

My take on cheating is a bit different.

Individual counseling first for 6 months for both the person who cheated and the spouse.

My thoughts are cheating is abuse. It's physical in that the spouse is exposed to different flora and possible stis from the affair partner that did not agree to. It's emotional and mental in that the spouse's feelings of hurt and betrayal can be so devastating that forms of PTSD can occur. It's financial when sums of money have been spent on facilitating the affair and gifting to the affair partner. It also can violate consent in that the spouse had agreed to a monogamous sexual relationship that they don't know is no longer monogamous. Would they consent to sex under that condition?

Couples therapy is not indicated when there's abuse in the marriage. Marital counseling sees the relationship as the patient and that disregards the needs of the victim. The spouse should not be taking on blame for the marriage breakdown here. It can also make power Imbalances worse. There can be dishonesty. The spouse might not feel safe. All these render marital counseling ineffective.

Which ever you are, you are still making excuses for the betrayer.
I agree with you that part of reconciliation is making sure you are both meeting each other needs moving forward.
But even when a marriage is not a happy one, each has choices- work to fix it or end it. Continuing to play happy families with the betrayed spouse while engaging in an affair is on the betraying spouse only.
In my situation, my dh after therapy and self reflection has recognised that his actions prior to the affair were the biggest contributory factors to any issues in our marriage. He's seen that a change in his actions has made a happier marriage. He recognises that he continued to say he loved mr and that he was happy even when he was not - giving us no chance to fix anything. He recognises that during the affair he ascribed blame for his unhappiness to me to justify his actions to himself. He also recognises that he is an avoidant, who didn't know how to talk about what was going on for him and that he felt the need to play the part of a loving husband rather than enter a true partnership.
On my side there's been work to do too, but he's fully owned the affair and genuinely ascribes no blame to me at all (he did in the beginning mind you).
You can't claim any part of your marriage resulted in betrayal as one of you was doing that completely in secret whilst manipulating the other so that it remained a secret.

I always love when someone cracks out Maslows Hierarchy of needs in defence of abuse.

And that's what cheating is a form of abuse against your partner.

Which then fundamentally shatters and fails to deliver on their needs. It is hypocritical in its presentation and still driven from a excuse based thought process.

The structure of needs is based on survival and wellbeing yes. But having an affair and justifying it on the basis of emotional unmet needs removes the underpinning moral and ethical decision making aspect which aligns to self actualization.

If your ethical and moral compass recognises cheating for what it truly is, the self actualization aspect means you are far less likely to be do it. Because your own internal moral compass and view of your self is off high value to you.

There is so much manipulation evident in your post I hope the betrayed spouse whom ever they are out of the two of you is seeking therapy independently of couples and specifically trauma based.

“the betrayer didn’t want to cheat or hurt the betrayed, but failed to make the morally correct decision to remain faithful when temptation arose, and that failure was heavily influenced by the betrayer’s unmet needs.”

I am actually really concerned that you are the cheat because male or female you will damage your betrayed partner with this talk of Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, I’m sure he’d be turning in his grave to think it’s being used as a mechanism for justifying the removal of a betrayed partners personal agency and right to informed sexual consent: these actions are abusive. Self actualisation is not going to happen with such narcissistic thinking.

I hope you are sharing this thread with the betrayed as they need to hear a different viewpoint as you are coming across as very sure you are right, and building a narrative that in the long term will only suit the cheat in this relationship.

OP - everyone I know who has reconciled has ended up splitting eventually, and if they stayed the relationship is not completely happy (or the infidelity happens again). From your posts you seem to hope therapy will “fix” things and get you back to where you were before the affair - I can’t tell if you’re the cheater or if you were cheated on. Either way infidelity seriously changes people and relationships, only time will tell if it will work out for you. All the bests

“the betrayer didn’t want to cheat or hurt the betrayed”

seriously? What was their intention then?

The op's posts are probably the biggest load of bollocks I have read on MN and I have been here a long time.

I really, really, really don't believe Maslow thought of an extramarital affair as a form of self actualization. 🙄 Abusing another person and cheating in a marriage is violating safety and stability as well as trust and family.

I would call using Maslow's Hierarchy to try to justify cheating as weaseling and fadoodle.

Egogasm.

The egogasm is so important that betrayal and harm to others becomes acceptable in its pursuit. Which is obviously bullshit unless you're the kind of person for whom that is true.

The excitement of extra-marital shagging. Pure and simple.

I think the worry for me is about one person feeling they ‘have to’ act in whatever way, rather than just wanting to. If that’s the case, it’s not going to last….
🤞for you both

Brilliant post.

@TreadingTrepidatious put another way what is stopping the cheat from cheating again if the betrayed can’t meet their MHoN level 3?

Because it WILL happen again, children, health issues, money worries, elderly relative issues, job concerns, mental health the list is endless as to reasons why we can’t be everything for someone else at all times.

There’s a sense in this case that the cheat (betrayer is such a meh term) is very much still unsafe, if this is the narrative your reconciliation is under. They’re basing their faith in the relationship under certain terms which is untenable.