Is this financial abuse?

[wellwellwell39]

Looking for some perspective and hoping to show this to my fiance.

He earns over 80k working full time and long hours, he works away mon-friday, back home every weekend. Take home pay is around 3,100 or thereabouts. He works incredibly hard for this.

I work 3 days a week in a decent job but it's not well paid, take home pay is about 1200 every month.
I get child maintenance from exp, was 300 a month but now it's going to be slashed to about 150.
Child benefit comes to me every week on top of that.

When we met, we were both 31 and both had one child each. We got engaged a year after meeting and made the choice to have a 3rd child between us before getting married. We had hoped to be married a while ago but life with 3 kids has gotten in the way and has gone to the bottom of the priority list sadly.

When we met, I rented, OH owned his home. I had no debt, OH had a huge amount (mostly due to his divorce and ongoing court proceedings as his exp was trying to stop contact with his DC 🙄) but he has no debt now.

9 years later, blended family is for the most part pretty good. All 3 kids adore each other and get on very well and love being together.

His exp is no longer an issue but my exp is always causing issues with child maintenance amongst other things so that does being a decent amount of stress into the relationship, but so does finances.

I will be the first to admit that due to not having any financial awareness when growing up, not having any adults to talk to about finances and discuss these type of issues as a young person leaving home, and not having any decent role models full stop, I am not particularly money savvy. In the past I have also been a very impulsive shopper and if I felt I needed it, I would buy, then would worry about it later. Now at almost 40 I of course regret that as I have zero savings and about 10k of credit card debt, I'm completely ashamed actually and beat myself up a lot about this, however a lot of this was accrued from needing to put diesel in car, buy birthday or Xmas gifts for the kids or buy food as money was so short on more than a few occasions.

OH puts in 1300 to the joint account. I put in around 800. With my bills including phone, debt repayments, DC's clubs (I pay some and OH pays some) then I'm usually left with around £100 -150 disposable income.

Over the years I've felt very frustrated about this set up. I believe it makes much more sense to pool all income, pay off bills and with whatever is left that covers kids clubs, savings then we both decide how much disposable income we want to take from what's left over. OH has always been dead set against this.

We're lucky to have a lovely 4bed detached (which I of course couldn't afford on my wage alone) but as OH's career has taken off especially in the last 5 years, I'm becoming pretty resentful as I can't work full time. There is no after school care provision in my area thanks to covid and grandparents can't help much.

OH is very careful with his money and always has been, something I admire and wish I had been able to be over the years . He sees me getting into debt as my own fault and not his issue. He often says, it's not my fault you chose this career, I shouldn't have to suffer because of your choices. I can see why he wants to ring fence his money, his eldest DC will need support with buying a home probably in around 10-15 years time or so, this is very important to him and I appreciate that. But he now says I need to put more in to the pot, I've explained I can't, he replies work full time then, which is easier said than done.

His outgoings are no where near as significant as mine, although he pays about 200 in CM and pays for his own food when away mon-fri and had his own bills too, and to be fair he does all the DIY I the house and pays for all of this. Eg. Any issues with the car he pays for it, re-tiled the bathroom and put a new shower in, he paid for it. Lots of things like this which I would struggle to contribute to, but he does say to me ' look at everything I do for this family, I pay for x,y,z'

So again I'm made to feel bad because I cant/don't contribute to these things.

The latest is he's saying the amount I contribute doesn't even cover myself, let alone my DC and I need to put in more because he's paying 'twice'. He believes he pays for his child when at her mum's, as well as my child, also believes he pays 'twice' for food as the money he puts into the joint account goes towards food then he pays for his own midweek.

What's got to me is that he's announced we now need to put diesel in the car from our own disposable income. We've always paid for that through the joint account but as my job now involves me driving when at work (and I claim mileage which is minimal and this is paid to me) he announced he will not be paying for 'my employers name' too! And he's fed up paying for EVERYTHING

I get where he is coming from so I'm happy to put the difference into the joint account going forward but this leaves me with even less disposable income.

I very much live pay check to pay check, I have a lot of nieces and nephews who have birthdays etc through the year and although it's a modest amount of spend, things like this plus kids friends parties etc all add up and often I'm in my overdraft.

It all feels very much like we're flatmates at times, and a bit like him vs me instead of a solid family unit doing life and hard things together.

I think he resents me as he sees me being at home 2x days a week but it's hard work keeping a family of 5 going all the time and my days off are absolutely not days off. Thanks for getting this far, please let me know your thoughts 🙏

This!

If he's now saying things will "get better" push him for full transparency of his payslips (last 12 months) and bank account. There's no reason he can't show these to you if he has nothing to hide and it would show some sincerity to improving things.

It probably wouldn't hurt for you to get some professional advice on what your money and house position would be if you split. Forewarned is forearmed.

Dear @wellwellwell39 , yes, it's financial abuse. Please ignore the goady posters who wilfully overlook key information in order to depict you as a spendthrift who is taking the piss out of your partner.

Your ex is lying about money. He's almost certainly doing post separation financial abuse of his ex by earning £80k and paying £200 per month when he has the child every other weekend. Potentially he's lying to hide exactly how he's ripping off his ex. My ex did this - earning £60k + and paying less that £100 per month. He's picked an arbitrary amount to contribute to your household and he wants the rest of the money for himself. He's probably frustrated that he personally doesn't have as much to spend on himself because he's shovelling money into his pension to defraud his ex. He doesn't care at all how much you are struggling.

It sounds to me like you have no hope of getting out of your difficult finances whilst in this relationship, because he doesn't care about you and doesn't want you to get into a better position. There's a lot about power and control here. He's abusive. It is normal in any relationship where one partner works away, for them to share the financial benefits of working away because most of the parenting and household responsibility is left to the parent who is at home. Married or not, working away is a team effort and this awful man is not a team player.

The very worst thing you have said though, is about hoe he treats your child unfairly and I would leave him just for that reason.

In your shoes, I would seek confirmation of his income as part of planning for separation. It's the only way you will get into a better financial position. You will need to claim child maintenance via CMS and have evidence, otherwise you too will be rewarded with the princely sum of 200 quid a month. How much equity is in your shared house? Is there any agreement about how this will be divided if the house is sold?

Please contact Women's Aid or your local domestic abuse service. This man has ground you down for far too long and sounds utterly vile. At least you know when you get rid of him that he won't want to see your child much. You do not deserve to be treated like this for another single day. It sounds soul-destroying. If you have trusted friends, please start talking to someone about your situation. I really wish you all the best. It's not okay for you to keep putting up with this.

*his storming off is to frighten you and shut you up. Don't bend to it.

Op are you absolutely sure he works away?
There are other explanations..
In your shoes I would ltb and claim cms. You will be much better off.

And your DC? Has he said he will treat them better too?

Yes 100% he works away, he videocalls me every night, and I've been down to stay with him at the house which his work pays for. He's a senior project manager and an absolute workaholic who will often gladly work from 7am-9pm and think nothing of it. I don't think he's leading a secret life or seeing anyone else as a few others have suggested. He doesn't gamble or drink and loves having a project to focus on for fun, hence why he's always doing home improvements and investing in new tools for DIY, he really does get a huge amount of enjoyment from it. He's a very serious person at times, probably partly because his work needs to be very serious and focused and I think he forgets how to be care free and just enjoy life so will sweat the small things and often be grumpy when there's no real need to be. I also think he has a tendency to catastrophic and worry/be very anxious about money. He doesn't really spend money as he doesn't care for fashion/nights out with friends or holidays/days out etc. Perhaps it's an anxiety thing around money, but knowing his personality, he's definitely stashing it rather than spending on another woman/or gambling etc

Someone else asked about how much equity there might be in the house, I'd say around 35k now or thereabouts. We bought 4.5 years ago but prices have gone up astronomically. He put in a much bigger lump sum for the deposit and I remember signing something agreeing to him getting that back if we were to split and sell, which I thought was fair enought, and he has been stung before by his exp. I cannot remember what the number was though, my guess it around 7 or 8k so I guess that would come off the equity which would usually be split in half

You need to get married. And he's taking home more than that.

I think she needs to leave.

He doesn’t sound very kind or like they are a team, working together for the good of the family. He sees himself as very separate.

Sadly the finances are the least of your worries

You are living with a man who resents your child?! What?

Can you imagine growing up with a man who didn’t like you or make you feel welcome in your own home? Who treat you less kindly than your siblings - how awful

And he dared to say he will take the other kids on holiday but not you two!!!!

dear me you really need to get a grip of this situation and your first step should be to tell him the cost of a nanny and ask if he is prepared to split the cost!!

Your poor DC. Why are you letting him do that? Your DC will always remember that you didn't protect them.

LTB

No. OP is doing all the childcare, enabling him to work full time.

For her to work full time, he has to cut his hours drastically in order to take over the childcare.

@wellwellwell39 I don't think he's having an affair or living a secret life. I think he's stashing the cash and making sure he's got a safety net should you choose to leave him. However, he's making it impossible for you to build your own safely net. Actually, he's making it impossible for you to do basic things. Having £100 disposal income it's impossible to go out with friends, have lunches, have a hair cut or do anything really. That's not fair. You are the reason he's able to work away. You are sacrificing your career. You've had to go part time to facilitate the childcare. Your not building a decent pension pot. You don't have savings. Your basically a single parent during the week. You've taking a hit for him and he's withholding money not only that he's withholding information and being dishonest about it

He has decided to give you a few hundred more now because he sees the writing on the wall. He's placating you to maintain his current status quo. Honestly. I wouldn't tolerate it. You have to worry about every penny and he's balling with thousands in the bank. That's not a partnership.

My H and I share everything. We have £150 each expendable money. I cant afootd to do things really. I occasionally go for lunch with a friend. I get a haircut twice a year. We are skint but at least we are skint together.

@wellwellwell39i mentioned the setup you have to my husband and he hates it. Your husband, even if not hiding something, is holding back money from you and lying about his income. You now own the house you’re in together (regardless of % incomes) and all money should be put into one pot and known about.

It’s SO strange that he’s squirreling away savings at such a rate for his DC for a house but his wife is living month to month? I’m not saying don’t save nest eggs for the kids, but both your income is BOTH YOUR INCOME and you should both agree what’s being saved and that it’s fair for all of the children. Yes, so perhaps your own DC you and your exp agree to both save as best you can for their future (even say £50 pm just you) BUT having lump sums for your kids isn’t a given right and him letting you survive on nothing to save for just his daughter is madness. He only got to this higher earning job with your support in the last 5 years and you taking time off for childcare.

My husband pointed out it’s the 2 DCs you don’t have together which complicate things, but not to this extent and not for how long you’ve been together.

This is so true, and when I remind him of this, he tells me that I would be in a rented house if it wasn't for him, which makes me really despise him.... always tit for tat and I should apparently be grateful for this oh so wonderful life I have 🙄

He told me this morning he was awake all night worrying, he wants to know why I'm not being my usual self (he already knows full well after our chat re child benefit, which he demanded I cancel immediately when the rules changed then told me to restart payments as 'its all OK now as that has been reversed')

He said 'I don't think you should waste this relationship because you're upset child maintenance is going to be less. I always get the blame of your upsets', he then admitted he can be hard to live with! (Grumpy etc, bit of a sergeant major)

He's very worried I'm going to end the relationship but with all the stashing money away and being untruthful what option do I have. His guilt is kicking in and said 'your silence is telling me exactly what you really think of me'. He knows he's being unfair.

He said I've been thinking and your right, we never have anything to look forward to. I'm going to get a credit card and we can book a nice holiday for us all. So he's still trying to claim he doesn't have much in the way of savings or disposable income but is a total hero who will save the day.

I'll work evenings and weekends Fri-sat if I can quickly find somewhere that will take on those hours. I'll have a chat with my manager about upping hours however at the last meeting it was discussed there's not much in the budget for extra hours currently. But God knows what I'll do next summer when I have 7+ weeks of childcare to find (well, minus 2 weeks of annual leave which I'll take) and I'll need to keep my eyes peeled for other full time vacancies. I have a degree which I'm not taking the most of but will also look into perhaps re-training to upskill and see what my options are.

Last year at 38yo I was diagnosed with adhd so I've had constant overwhelm my whole life but not known why, and I find certain things impossible to do, that alongside having a chronic health condition has really affected how I show up in the world. I did have a job a few years ago in project management where I led a team and co-ordinated a huge programme when my eldest DC was younger and I worked full time. But always felt I wasn't coping like my other colleagues were and was happy to step back after 10 years of that to move into a simpler job with less responsibility in a different organisation, but I have plenty of potential for getting a career back on track if I can up my confidence.

Thanks for all the replies, it has really helped me see things more clearly

@wellwellwell39 I’m glad he feels guilty but actions speak louder than words.

My husband and I both agreed yesterday - him offering the extra £200pm after originally asking you to give more is a distraction tactic. The credit card for the holiday sounds the same to me in all honesty…

Even if you don’t get access to the money, why can’t he just open a banking app and show you his income/savings? My husband and I do it all the time. We have joint goals on saving, monthly spending, what we want to do with OUR money etc. He’s paid for holidays in the past but currently has more expenses than me (crazy petrol expenses to work in another city) so I’ve just paid £2.5K for a holiday in a few weeks. Can you imagine me sitting on that money and refusing to spend it because he had none? That’s your husband.

Well done for looking out for yourself but if he wants this relationship to be saved, he needs to be brutally honest first and then change his relationship to money. This “I’m the breadwinner” attitude when he’s ONLY there because of your support is disgusting.

My dad worked in my finance and my mum was a SAHM until I was 7 (I’m youngest of 3) and since then a teaching assistant - if he ever threw in her face “he earned the money” and it’s his or withheld money from her, I’d seriously square on punch him and I’ve never had a fight in my life! In their marriage my dad pays for everything (house, bills, holidays, her credit card) and her income is her income! I’m mad for you. Good for you for seeking advice.

Lots of concerning stuff here, OP. Do you actually want to continue this relationship?

If you do then you both need to put your cards in the table financially. I'd want to know exactly what he has coming in and going out (and to see bank statements and multiple pay slips + P60) and I'd offer to show the same to him. It sounds as if he's hiding something, maybe multiple things, and using the fact that you've been in debt to justify keeping you in the dark.

Once you know where you are, you can make a plan from there about what would be a fair contribution from each of you and who should be covering what. HIs attitude really stinks- all that stuff about you not paying enough for your own costs- and doesn't take account of your substantial non-financial contribution. But you can't deal with any of this until you understand what your joint financial situation is.

Do you own the house as joint tenants?

If he isn't willing to do the above, I'd probably leave.

Who knows where you would need without him. You could still he renting. So what. That's not the reality of the situation. The reality is he is able to work away because yo facilitate that. Your contribution to the family is valid. Without you he may well be in a very different situation as well. Honestly, this I made you and without me your nothing attitude only makes him sound like a bigger wanker.

Wow why didn’t I think of this for myself. If it was so easy do you not think all people would just “go and get a better paid job” 🙄

The OPs husband isn’t even home 5 days a week so how do you figure that he’s doing most of the household tasks?

How exactly is OP meant to work more if she’s being sole parent 5 days a week?

If he hasn’t got savings enough to pay for a holiday then we’re the hell is all the rest of his unspent income? This is your question to him now. You are penniless whilst he his doing what exactly?

Why is he so greedy?

He clearly does not view you all as a family unit and he resents your child

He should be grateful to you for allowing him to be part of your child’s life if anything it is an honour

Ask for real change or tell him you are considering your future together - a one in which you can do 50/50 childcare each so you can enhance your career

@wellwellwell39 he just can't believe you're not falling into line as you normally do. He's chucked you a few beans. Nothing meaningful at all. He's 100% manipulative.

"and he has been stung before by his exp" this is nonsense. Men like him perceive sharing assets fairly as exploitative because they want it all for themselves.

Keep your eyes wide open. He's abusive. His latest response confirms that.

OP, this is not good.

This is the risk you take when you cohabit with someone you aren’t married to, with differing incomes and being on completely different pages.

You aren’t a family unit, he’s out for himself with little concern for you or any appreciation of you role within the family.

It’s slightly different for me as I’m married but my DH’s monthly take home pay is about £3,200 whereas mine is about £600. So a huge difference!

Everything goes into the same pot and anything related to the house, cars or children comes out of that pot.

Each month we get our own personalised spends, he has £400 and so do I. He would never, ever want to see me have less just because just because he earns so much compared to me. We are a family unit, we share everything and he doesn’t see himself as any more worthy of the household income than me just because he earns most of it.

Your set-up does not sound like one where you are equally valued for what you do. Yes he earns the majority of the money but it seems like you carry the load of bringing up the children whilst he’s away, and he doesn’t think that is of any value to the point where he’d contribute more financially.

How on earth can he think it’s okay that you have £200 a month to yourself whilst he has over £1000?

That kind of selfishness just blows my mind.

I couldn’t be in a relationship like that.

Honestly, I think he might have a chip on his shoulder re his ex wife. She really took him to the cleaners when they split, she made up a lot of allegations about him and tried every trick in the book to stop him having a relationship with their DC. The allegations were relentless and shocking. Around 3 years of non stop legal costs and it went as a far as a trial! (At which point she held her hamd up the day before and agreed that comtact should take place to avoid being ripped to shreds in court). So about 60k of legal costs were accrued and she was just laughing at him all the way through it as she got legal aid. It was very traumatic for everyone involved and not something you can easily forget.

However I held his hand all the way through it and gave him all the support he needed to remain positive through it all. But I think he believes that now life is starting to get back ok track re finances he must put it all away and hide it all just my thoughts and I could be wrong but will need to have another chat with him tonight. I feel utterly gutted but don't see how we can move forward from this unless he admits fully to being in the wrong and wishes to change his view point. He always says he fully appreciates what I do midweek with the kids but as someone said, actions speak louder than words and it doesn't appear that way