Is this financial abuse?

[wellwellwell39]

Looking for some perspective and hoping to show this to my fiance.

He earns over 80k working full time and long hours, he works away mon-friday, back home every weekend. Take home pay is around 3,100 or thereabouts. He works incredibly hard for this.

I work 3 days a week in a decent job but it's not well paid, take home pay is about 1200 every month.
I get child maintenance from exp, was 300 a month but now it's going to be slashed to about 150.
Child benefit comes to me every week on top of that.

When we met, we were both 31 and both had one child each. We got engaged a year after meeting and made the choice to have a 3rd child between us before getting married. We had hoped to be married a while ago but life with 3 kids has gotten in the way and has gone to the bottom of the priority list sadly.

When we met, I rented, OH owned his home. I had no debt, OH had a huge amount (mostly due to his divorce and ongoing court proceedings as his exp was trying to stop contact with his DC 🙄) but he has no debt now.

9 years later, blended family is for the most part pretty good. All 3 kids adore each other and get on very well and love being together.

His exp is no longer an issue but my exp is always causing issues with child maintenance amongst other things so that does being a decent amount of stress into the relationship, but so does finances.

I will be the first to admit that due to not having any financial awareness when growing up, not having any adults to talk to about finances and discuss these type of issues as a young person leaving home, and not having any decent role models full stop, I am not particularly money savvy. In the past I have also been a very impulsive shopper and if I felt I needed it, I would buy, then would worry about it later. Now at almost 40 I of course regret that as I have zero savings and about 10k of credit card debt, I'm completely ashamed actually and beat myself up a lot about this, however a lot of this was accrued from needing to put diesel in car, buy birthday or Xmas gifts for the kids or buy food as money was so short on more than a few occasions.

OH puts in 1300 to the joint account. I put in around 800. With my bills including phone, debt repayments, DC's clubs (I pay some and OH pays some) then I'm usually left with around £100 -150 disposable income.

Over the years I've felt very frustrated about this set up. I believe it makes much more sense to pool all income, pay off bills and with whatever is left that covers kids clubs, savings then we both decide how much disposable income we want to take from what's left over. OH has always been dead set against this.

We're lucky to have a lovely 4bed detached (which I of course couldn't afford on my wage alone) but as OH's career has taken off especially in the last 5 years, I'm becoming pretty resentful as I can't work full time. There is no after school care provision in my area thanks to covid and grandparents can't help much.

OH is very careful with his money and always has been, something I admire and wish I had been able to be over the years . He sees me getting into debt as my own fault and not his issue. He often says, it's not my fault you chose this career, I shouldn't have to suffer because of your choices. I can see why he wants to ring fence his money, his eldest DC will need support with buying a home probably in around 10-15 years time or so, this is very important to him and I appreciate that. But he now says I need to put more in to the pot, I've explained I can't, he replies work full time then, which is easier said than done.

His outgoings are no where near as significant as mine, although he pays about 200 in CM and pays for his own food when away mon-fri and had his own bills too, and to be fair he does all the DIY I the house and pays for all of this. Eg. Any issues with the car he pays for it, re-tiled the bathroom and put a new shower in, he paid for it. Lots of things like this which I would struggle to contribute to, but he does say to me ' look at everything I do for this family, I pay for x,y,z'

So again I'm made to feel bad because I cant/don't contribute to these things.

The latest is he's saying the amount I contribute doesn't even cover myself, let alone my DC and I need to put in more because he's paying 'twice'. He believes he pays for his child when at her mum's, as well as my child, also believes he pays 'twice' for food as the money he puts into the joint account goes towards food then he pays for his own midweek.

What's got to me is that he's announced we now need to put diesel in the car from our own disposable income. We've always paid for that through the joint account but as my job now involves me driving when at work (and I claim mileage which is minimal and this is paid to me) he announced he will not be paying for 'my employers name' too! And he's fed up paying for EVERYTHING

I get where he is coming from so I'm happy to put the difference into the joint account going forward but this leaves me with even less disposable income.

I very much live pay check to pay check, I have a lot of nieces and nephews who have birthdays etc through the year and although it's a modest amount of spend, things like this plus kids friends parties etc all add up and often I'm in my overdraft.

It all feels very much like we're flatmates at times, and a bit like him vs me instead of a solid family unit doing life and hard things together.

I think he resents me as he sees me being at home 2x days a week but it's hard work keeping a family of 5 going all the time and my days off are absolutely not days off. Thanks for getting this far, please let me know your thoughts 🙏

The whopper could of course be he only earns £50k as well but working away 5 days a week that seems unlikely.

Then you are taking the piss.

As a girlfriend you have been voluntarily gifted a house that you're barely contributing too. Just because you can't access the cash, you've got the hump. It's being spent on YOUR house and living expenses.

You sound grabby. And this is why he's not marrying you.

Also OP for what it's worth I have a sort of similar situation myself.

DH and I have three children. We're not a blended family though, appreciate that does simplify things a lot and we both came into the relationship with nothing so we have both earned what we do have together.

At various points in our relationship pre childhood we took turns being the higher earner. We've been together a long time, since we were at university. When we bought our house together and got engaged is when we merged our finances.

Since we have had children, he has overtaken me in income. He doesn't earn anywhere near as much as your partner but his take home pay is the same. I earn almost the same as you and my take home pay is very close to yours. So he makes 3/4 of the household income and I make 1/4.

He works long hours with a long commute and wouldn't be able to do so if I wasn't around to look after the children on my days off, do all the nursery runs and pick ups on the days I'm at work. He hopefully has good potential at work in the next few years and it won't be possible for him if I up my hours unless we decide we are happy to spend a LOT more money on childcare as all three are under school age.

We see this as a team effort. All money paid into joint account. We don't have a huge amount left over after bills, childcare and joint savings but he isn't splurging on whatever he likes while I am forced to put kids birthday presents on my credit card and then he berates me for being bad at money.

He is not a true partner.

He is absolutely scamming you.. He earns his wage because you manage the dc alone.
He is a top class cunt imo.

"He doesn't like discussing finances"

Ok then.

Leave.

Adults who have children together need to discuss finances.

His take home pay is £4.7k. Get a full time job and split bills and childcare duties equally.

So if you're now in your 9th year together, and the shared kid is 5, what hours did you work in the four odd years you were together and couldn't say "I'm working part time because I'm raising his child?"

I worked full time....38 hours, and enjoyed it too

I found out my dh lied about his wages.. Claimed we were always skint..
I filed for divorce the next day.

You are in a precarious position not married..

I thought the same. On gov.uk it shows a salary of £4.7k take home monthly.

How come he is paying so little to the parent of his oldest child?

Does he have his child at yours for much of the week? In which case in reality, you are subsidising him to pay less maintenance by facilitating 100% of the care if his child while he is not there.

I don't know if there is a chance of saving the relationship or is you even want to but I would sit down with him with a detailed plan in hand.

What would a full time job look like and how much additional income would that represent. Then work out the expenses arising from this, additional petrol, additional tax, childcare (a nanny if no childminder available). How would it affect custody of his child, would you have to reduce time with dsc and so result in him paying more cm, is he expecting you to do all the house and childcare all week in addition to a full time job while he swans off etc etc.

Make him see how ridiculous and impossible and unfair it is.... With receipts.

Or just bin him off.

Have you not read the part about her doing school runs and looking after the kids while he's away 5 days a week?

Or did you, and yet you still came to this ridiculous conclusion?

OP, this guy does not value you as a partner and his eyes is just seeing the £s he is spending on you (his view) and I believe he has stashed or hidden loads away. I have no problem him providing for his children but he's taking no note of your contributions. I really think you should consider if you want to be with someone who views you in this warm if also have a conversation and bring about his earnings and where it's going and if he's hiding money away to avoid CS. Say that you are considering this relationship and may need to get his financials looked at - he may be forced to be more open as clearly he's hiding things.

It's not what I see as a true partnership. Your family should be a unit, not a business arrangement. Although I appreciate the blended family complicates things somewhat, since you have one child each who is not yours / your partners, it doesn't sound that complicated.

It's good that the house is in both names but that's not helping where living expenses are involved. Why should you be going into debt simply because he won't share more of his money? My fully time salary is around what your DH earns but I only work four fifths of the week, and I still get several hundred pounds more in take home pay each month than he says he does. Something there doesn't add up.

His take home pay on 80k is £4,746.45. I check on a calculator for wages on Scotland.

Anyhow, you are doing all the parenting, childcare during the week. You have compromised your ability to work and facilitate him working away while you manage the household and work PT. Your outgoing for the kids will always be higher because your the one their day to day paying for clothes, food and activities.

Is the house in joint names?

The thing is while he's building his empire, has savings, a home, car ect you are goingto get fuck with less pension contributions, no savings, debt ect.

I think you need to do a bebifit calculator and child maimtainace calculator to see where you would stand financially if you left him.

I do veiw it as financial abuse. He's making sure you have nothing left at the end of the month as a means of control.

Another so called dp who sees the woman as merely staff...

But you had your own child then as well. So how did you manage that child and full time work but now you can't?

I earn slightly more than £80k a year, I also live in Scotland. My take home pay is over a thousand more than that and I pay money into sharesave schemes or it would be even more. Yes, he is financially abusing you.

@wellwellwell39 so I’m actually single and child free. However, your post is quite saddening to read actually. I feel your OH knew the career choice you had made when he met you and so what your financial contributions were likely to be. Also he’d have had a fair idea of how having a joint child would further set you back. Now after several years where essentially you’re supported him in getting that high earning job by absorbing all the life drudgery of child care, home admin and house work, school runs, meals, laundry etc he’s got the audacity to turn round to you and effectively say you need to bring more to the party?!

I always thought that married couples just pooled everything together and what was left took the same percentage out for disposable income and then for joint savings, holidays, DC future etc! Obviously MN has taught me I was very naive in that belief. It doesn’t seem like your DH is as much of a team player as you are tbh. If you’re all the same unit and working for the same goal of happiness and security, then why is he picking so much at differences. It’s a shame that he wants to focus on what you don’t/are unable to do rather than appreciating what you have/do do. Does he even actually really love you that he is griping so much about this. All I know is that if my partner who I loved so much that I had a kid with them and they keep the show on the road Mon-Fri so I could focus solely on work, I would be contributing (with their money also) to helping them getting rid of that CC debt (I don’t care for ‘serves your right’ attitude much looking forward I’m sure they’d have learnt their lesson) and happy that I had a DP in my life. Sorry I’m rambling but it’s very sad how many men seem to focus so much on measuring the worth of their partner in monetary terms.

@wellwellwell39you could work more than you currently do though. You say there aren’t after school clubs but you could use a childminder. And even without a childminder you could do 5 days a week, school hours. I can understand your dh, working long hours full time and seeing you have two days off a week with the kids in school, feeling it’s not a great balance of responsibilities. Especially as you admit yourself that you’re the one who spends unwisely.

I’d find out what it would cost him weekly if he had no help at all and could only rely on himself to do all the childcare needs for his child. It would be a lot more than what he’s giving. I don’t think he’s being very nice and was wondering what bought all this on. Has it just come up all of the sudden or is this something he’s been all along.

Op he is lying about his take home pay, I take home £3800 and am in late £60s with decent pension and a salary sacrifice share scheme.

How often does he have his child from previous relationship? 200 is outrageous for 80k per year

It’s tricky.

I think he potentially earns less than he’s claiming to earn if his regular payslip is only £3100. I earn £10K less than him (minus student loans and being in England) and take home £3700ish. Does a company car payment or other also come out his salary? Thats the first thing to look into.

I’ll break down my own view on certain aspects:

1. £10K of debt isn’t usually a big burst of spending over a short period. As you’ve admitted, it’s chronic bad spending and it’s almost an addiction to spending from what you’ve said. He may well not want to have a joint account as he feels you can’t be trusted to manage his money eg his DC (and yours) future. Youre the problem here.

2. He pays more towards your joint account, plus his own food, at home groceries, bills, child maintenance for his DC, I assume your family joint expenses at weekends (food, outings etc) and to date puts diesel in your car while he’s away. How much does he pay for DCs clubs, more than you? While it’s his own family he’s supporting and he should be doing so, if you keep asking for or spending more money, he could be wondering where yours is going. Perhaps show him where yours goes to “prove” you have none left and need support. He probably currently thinks you’re wasting it.

3. Each couple to themselves (my mum was SAHM until I was about 7 as the youngest of 3), but you have 3 kids with the youngest aged 5 and all at school. Both your own DC and his DC will (I assume, you’ve not said otherwise) spend time at their “other parents” so you won’t have all 3 children with you all the time. I also assume his DC is perhaps at an age they could make their own way home from school and even make their own dinner if you were too busy. If YOU AS A COUPLE want to save for the future, go on family holidays, pay off your debts etc that he can’t do more than he’s doing or contributing but something does have to change to achieve all of the above and if it’s not cut backs on lifestyle, it’s working more. It’s great you’re supporting the family at home, but the gap is you working more and not him dipping into your savings to subsidise you being at home. Out of curiousity you ever plan to go back full time?

4. random one, but as someone with 8 nieces and nephews plus cousins I’m close to with 6 kids total (you also say you have close friends with kids) you need to reign that in if it’s so expensive you’re mentioning it on this post. You’re in debt. They don’t need to know why but set yourself a budget and stick with it for gifts. You don’t need to be some lavish aunt as you aren’t one and can’t afford to be. I am a lawyer on a very good salary and I have a reasonable budget for all my nieces and nephews with the view I’m not eating into my own (future) children’s savings or my own lifestyle for the sake of getting any of them a few extra sweets, books, toys etc. I know it could be sheer volume but is there a pressure to spend a lot?

How to fix it? Show him your outgoings and how little you have left. I’d say, make sure you don’t have random big spends like a £7 Starbucks coffee 3 x a week or eating out all the time while he’s away etc etc. If he won’t hand over more money as he doesn’t trust you, then ask for him to pay more directly. Can he do ALL of DCs clubs? Compromise and accept you’re allowing your company to pay for the diesel and not double benefitting - things like this will be why he feels “used”. Seriously going back full time. You need to pay off this £10K sooner and all of the kids are in school, with 2 of them at their “other parents” at times PLUS your other half is away 5 days so you’ve not got a “house full of 5”…you may find it hard to manage and overwhelming or just not be great at organising/housework. Ask for help? Work full time but get a cleaner, ask in-laws (and exes) to pick up and have their DGC for 30 mins if possible. What are all these siblings and their kids doing - can you ask someone to pick yours up if they’re nearby or at the same school? It’s complicated but without more context, I don’t think this (in your circumstances, with debt, school age children, a blended family (eg not full time with you) and a part time job) would be considered financial abuse and he’s basically trying to protect both your finances, which includes his own.

That being said, definitely get to the bottom of how much he earns, because if he’s hiding income I’d change my view!

Maybe he doesn't earn 80,000. Have you seen proof of his earnings?

That's because on the take home she's seen, his gross is nothing like £80k