Married to someone with Asperger’s/ASD/ND: support thread 16

[BustyLaRoux]

New thread.
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This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND ourselves, very many of us have ND children. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.
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It's complicated and it's emotional.
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The old thread is here.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5299389-married-to-someone-with-aspergersasdnd-support-thread-15?page=1

In short @PollyHutchen the physical space has given us a much needed break from the pressure of differing ND needs and blended family living. But only because we do love each other and there was enough ‘good’ worth trying to salvage.

My dad is also autistic. I have put in place enough distance (I don’t pander to his demands) that I’m not overly frustrated by him. But I have also dug deep working to accept him for what he is. It’s not deliberate. I told him about my back injury today and we discussed my relatives marital issues. His response was to say he couldn’t handle both his children being unwell and also it was too much divorce in the family and he didn’t think he could cope. There is zero empathy in the traditional sense. Everything is seen in terms of how it affects him. I used to feel sad about this (why can’t he care like normal dads?!) but I’ve learned to accept this.

As for my close relative, I think they should leave. I don’t think it can be salvaged. Even with physical space. I don’t think they can accept their spouse the way they are. And I don’t think the spouse will ever reflect or change. Without those things I don’t think there is any hope. For them. For any couple really.

@PollyHutchen I have recently split from my partner who is ADHD/Au. Like many here, I thought he was quirky initially. Truthfully I doubt id have left had he not put me in a difficult quandary where it felt like him or my children. I would have been happy otherwise i think as i loved him. But he would disappear if conversations got minutely heated or where i disagreed with anything. I just couldnt rely on him. Mine won't change because ultimately we want different things.

Thanks @BustyLaRoux and everyone else who’s given advice - Googling monotropism is interesting and very much him.

On reflection, the reacting badly to questions happens more when he’s out of his comfort zone - like if we’re travelling, or on holiday, or going to a social event (God forbid!).

Of course I’m tempted to tell him to piss off, but if I do react it escalates. If I challenge him, his standard response is to get very angry and say, “Oh, because you never snap at me… but you expect me to be perfect etc etc”. And it’s true that I do occasionally snap at him, but not the way he does it. I feel very worn down by it. I don’t really know how to get across to him that when I’m a bit tetchy, it’s a really different thing to the way he speaks to me. He says it isn’t. What can I do? It’s not like I have any proof that he’s nastier than me. I’m at a loss at this point. And the thing is, if I’m careful not to trigger him he can be lovely for a couple of weeks at a time, sometimes longer, before being arsey again…

It’s really good to hear things are going so well @BustyLaRoux (though sorry you’re suffering physically).

I do wonder if separate homes could be the answer for us, but I’d need to earn a bit more to make it work. Something to aim for…

@EmotionalSupportHuman I’m afraid the “oh you’re so perfect” and “well YOU do x y and z too!” are classic examples of the defensive ‘I should not be blamed for anything,ever!” responses which became all too familiar to me.

If I said something he did upset me/someone or caused a problem, he would respond with “well YOU do x! Don’t you think I would like it if you didn’t do x??”. Everything I said was countered with defensive attacks.

So maybe “piss off” isn’t helpful. Fair enough. How about when you ask a question and he responds with sarcastic “oh well give me ten minutes and maybe I’ll think of something!” (rude) response, you could feign ignorance and say “ok then, I’ll just get the bits on my list” and if and when he responds with something angry and entitled, then feign even more ignorance “but you said you couldn’t think of anything right now..?” 🤷‍♀️

His dripping with sarcasm responses aren’t helpful. You’re trying to be nice and he’s responding with rudeness and sarcasm. It’s not acceptable. Autism or not, this is just plain rude!

Yeah, that’s it exactly. If I say we all have to walk on eggshells sound him then he says it’s the same around me. But I know it isn’t, because it’s such a relaxed household on the rare occasions when he’s not here. I’d like to talk to the kids about it (older teens) and get their take, for my own sanity really, but then I also don’t think it’s fair to involve them in my marriage in that way. I know they think he’s difficult and irrational and childish, but he can be good fun too, and they do love him.

@EmotionalSupportHuman the phrase walking on eggshells suggests his behaviour is regularly unpleasant. This has nothing to do with his diagnosis whatever that may be. You’re in a situation that regularly leaves you feeling uncomfortable and unhappy. This is no way to live, it’s a shit sandwich however you look at it. He may be a better person for the children and you if you separate. It’s harder to blame someone else when they’re not there and he may be a better parent because of it. You’re happier when he’s not there…….

I know what you meant I get it completely. My DP can be lots of fun too, but there is definitely a need to walk on eggshells around him. I’d say this is often dependent on what else is going on and how he’s managing his stress. He does have a lot of stress and when he isn’t coping he eats badly, drinks heavily, doesn’t exercise and generally is moody and snappy and likely to explode at the smallest thing. This is when we all have to walk on the proverbial eggshells. When he’s managing his stress well he is far better and can have a laugh and a joke at his own expense.

I also think the fact I’m not there in the house with him all the time, means I escape the worst of it now.

I find with DP he also likes to deflect criticism back onto me and my family. It’s so annoying!!!! So just like your DH, when you say you have to walk on eggshells around him, your DH just turns it round and says no, you’re the same/worse! it’s classic deflection.

With my DP he absolutely has to have the last word. He can’t not do it! He just can’t stop himself. And yet he likes to tell me over and over how I have to have the last word. But I really don’t! It’s all him.

DP and his DC are fiercely competitive. It’s a trait I really don’t like. DP isn’t too bad, but both his DC are awful. I’ve called them all out on how very competitive they are and said it’s not necessary to see life like that. Their response??? To tell me and my DC that we are the competitive ones (we so aren’t! DS couldn’t give a shit about anything and is the least bothered person you could meet. DD is quite down on herself so does compare but only in a way where she thinks she is rubbish, she never gloats if she’s done better or got more than someone else). But DP and his DC even make a competition about who is more competitive!!!!! They keep trying to goad me and my DD by saying “you lot are SOOO competitive!!!!” All the time. It’s so patently untrue!

Living apart has definitely made my life easier. I don’t deal with the eggshells anymore. DP has also worked on himself a lot so it has actually made life better for him. Could that work for you guys too? Is there enough good left in the relationship to try and make that work?

As for involving the DC in the eggshells question…..you already know the answer to “who creates eggshells most - me or dad?” Clue: It’s not you! Do you need to demonstrate to DH he is wrong? Can you just sit with the knowledge that he is wrong and is unlikely to be convinced whoever backs you up? I’d say perhaps employ the Let Them theory here: if he wants to believe that, then so be it. You know better but there’s no real value in making him see he is wrong by asking the DC:

1. you already know what they’d say
2. you don’t really want to involve them
3. it would be unlikely to convince your DH he is the problem

I’ve taught myself to go “mmmmm” in a very unconvinced way whenever DP or his DC feel the need to tell me and my family are more competitive than them. Why should I care if they think that? I know the truth. It annoys the shit out of me, truth be told, but they’ll never accept the competitiveness is all them, so I just smile and go mmmm and let them carry on through gritted teeth.

Definitely agree with this.

Thanks for the support and advice @BustyLaRoux and @Pashazade.

I do still have hope, because the good times are good. And there can be lengthy peaceful times in between the eruptions. It’s just the not knowing when he’s going to kick off that I don’t enjoy, but maybe I’m being hyper-sensitive. I can’t help thinking that if I could find a way to be more chilled out when times are good, that would stop the eggshells feeling. But maybe that’s not realistic…

Maybe a goal of separate households by the time the kids leave home is the answer. It’s not possible now.

@EmotionalSupportHuman the question should be why are you hyper sensitive, were you always this way or has it got worse, it’s not a normal state to be in. We probably worry more than most when we have a ND partner because we know certain stuff makes them irritable and so we do things a certain way because it’s just easier but I worry about how much stress you’re under if that’s your day to day state. Perhaps find a counsellor to talk to just for you if you haven’t got someone in real life you can be honest with. It helps to leave your frustrations elsewhere so you sweat the small stuff less and realise sometimes you over compensate when actually you don’t need to.

Back from holiday and I'm very glad I booked today off rather than going straight into working - laundry, logistics etc to be sorted.

DH was pretty good on holiday - it can be a flash point, but no major wobblies and he was even OK about me driving the hire car (though it helps we weren't driving on a different side) . He even managed to make, and I was able to laugh along with, a joke about a driving non-incident he kept bringing up as an example of why I drive 'unsafely' on holiday, so just maybe he has accepted my explanation of what actually happened and we can move past that one.

Edinburgh was very tiring, Highlands were relaxing, almost too much so. After our first day there when we did canyoning, DH and the kids just seemed like they'd be happy to not leave the cottage for the next 3 days so it felt a bit like I was having to drag them out to do stuff.

@EmotionalSupportHuman I really dont think you're being oversensitive. It's entirely normal to live nervously when you don't know when you're going to get erupted atm.

Also and this is very blunt @BustyLaRoux ...
How about when you ask a question and he responds with sarcastic “oh well give me ten minutes and maybe I’ll think of something!” (rude) response, you could feign ignorance and say “ok then, I’ll just get the bits on my list” and if and when he responds with something angry and entitled, then feign even more ignorance “but you said you couldn’t think of anything right now..?” 🤷‍♀️

I don't think you should be encouraging EmotionalSupportHuman to play games and to be unable to ask a simple and straightforward question without having to plan how to deal with difficulties.

A good relationship isn't always plain sailing but -is- characterised by being able to be open about difficulties and being able to communicate. That's about the deep stuff. If there's drama over a simple shopping list, the relationship is a fucking nightmare to live in and EmotionalSupportHuman deserves much, much better.

I'm sorry, I shouldn't have criticized.

Isn’t there a saying that if you’re not saying it then you are storing it. That gets heavy and nervous. Relationships do not work when one persons identity and needs gets completely ignored. I know around my family I am nervous because they don’t want the me that I have to offer. I have to hold myself in and I become extremely self aware and I hate it. It’s hard to always think before you act and scrutinise your own thoughts all the time.

Sometimes I just scream “what about me”! We give people the version of us that gives us in return what we need. I think in these relationships we give up who we are and simply become what they need to keep some sense of control. It creates so much resentment. What about me is how I feel all the time, plus the eggshells.

Gosh I’m so sorry. It wasn’t my intention to advise anyone to game play. This is how I handle my DP’s sarcasm - I let it pass me by.
@EmotionalSupportHuman I apologise unreservedly.

I was over-blunt, @BustyLaRoux , I'm sorry.

I do 'store' too much. Nothing super important at the end of the day, but it still feels annoying, when I feel it's just not worth the bother of bringing it up because I can't think of a way of saying it that won't make him defensive.

There are limits of course, but the more that you have to store, the less you can share, and the less it feels safe to share. In so many of the stories here, there is very limited or zero sense of emotional safety.

I think the boiling frog analogy has happened in many of our stories and many of us have profoundly reduced ourselves.

Yes, this is definitely true for me.

And yes to this too.

Sorry to hear about your back @BustyLaRoux good to hear that your DP looked after you well.

Thanks all for the support and for this convo - it’s so helpful. And @BustyLaRoux there's no apology needed on my account. It’s not the approach I’d take because I’ve tried it and it doesn’t end well, but I get where you’re coming from.

The boiling frog analogy is so true. I’ve gradually been eroded. I was listening to a podcast today where the interviewee talked about bringing “main character energy” and it made me think I’d love to get back to that version of me. To be fair to DH, there has been other typical midlife things going on that have knocked me about a bit, but it’s time to pick myself up and stop tolerating this BS. I think it’s about making small changes, so I can gradually build more confidence and speak up when he’s being a dick. I do love him and I’d love to get back to a place where we’re getting on better, but the anger is a huge difficulty for me. He can be so nice, but I find it hard to put the angry outbursts behind me. I feel like I’m always bracing for the next incident. Maybe I just need to get on with my life and ignore the outbursts, like you would with a toddler?