Married to someone with Asperger’s/ASD/ND: support thread 16

[BustyLaRoux]

New thread.
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This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND ourselves, very many of us have ND children. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.
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It's complicated and it's emotional.
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The old thread is here.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5299389-married-to-someone-with-aspergersasdnd-support-thread-15?page=1

@BustyLaRoux it makes much more sense how you have both gotten autistic partners given you had an autistic dad. Are you also both ND yourselves, as i assumed it's hereditary. Don't they say you go for people familiar to you? Your sister in law sounds like hard work but maybe your brother finds it familiar and can handle it as he's used to it through your dad.

Busty do you think your sister has rejection sensitivity dysphoria? It’s been weird since I only recently realised DH has this so, so strongly. I’m not sure how I managed to end up married for years without realising, but DHs autistic traits have hugely increased with age. Would you consider sharing the RSD sheet from Dr Neff with your DB? It’s very good.

I don’t know what I’m asking for! I might ask for these latest posts to be deleted as it’s very identifying. I suppose maybe sympathy for DB. Like he’s come to accept this as normal life (even though he knows it isn’t really). I am absolutely not trying to get him to leave. Not my place. But perhaps see clearly that he is being emotionally abused by her. I think it’s harder for a man to accept maybe. He’s quite a blokey bloke. I think the idea he is in an abusive relationship is new to him. I suppose I want him to see that other people see it for what it is. That he isn’t to blame (despite her daily protestations that he’s horrible and makes her feel like shit all the time). That other people out there understand what he’s going through and can give him a metaphorical hand hold and say “we get it”.

@BustyLaRoux Your SIL sounds very like my mum (85) and your DB like my dad (89). I feel sorry for both my Dad and my mum - as you say, it must be exhausting and miserable to live in that state where you feel like everyone is critisisng and having a go at you if they don't 100% agree with everything you say. I couldn't live with it. It's horrible to witness my mum berating my dad all the time. She had a real go at him this week for not looking at her while he was talking to my sister. Basically she felt left out because he speaks very softly and she is hard of hearing, but the way she went on about it, for DAYS, you'd think he had committed some heinous act of treachery...sometimes I just have to leave. I can't get in the middle of it. She accuses me of siding with my dad, which is true, but it's because she is utterly unreasonable. Like you SIL though, she has no insight on her own behaviour. Just constant feeling of victimhood. It's exhausting to be around.

@BustyLaRoux I agree you can’t tell him to leave.
But you can remind him he isn’t over reacting. That constantly being in a huff isn’t on. That he doesn’t have to accept it etc….
After that, he has you as a great example of how to manage such a situation and putting boundaries in place too.

As we all know, taking such a decision is hard. In part because I think there’s a boiling frog syndrome going on. We don’t really see how bad things have become. And by that time, you’ve got used to things being that way. It feels normal. Even more so if this is what we’ve been used to as children I think. It’s hard to even imagine things to be different.
But seeing that things can be different, hearing from other people’s way to handle things help. Like they do on this thread.

Sounds hard to be witnessing @BustyLaRoux

We're on holiday in a fortnight... I was reminded today that I'm relieved we're staying in the UK as it lessens one of the major holiday stresses that anywhere we're driving on the other side of the road he gets some days of being utterly intent on telling me I'm about to 'drive us off the road' and 'get us killed' and things like that after which, of course I drive worse because I feel like I don't know what I'm doing. We had a lovely day out today and it was nearly spoiled because I annoyed him by not waiting for him to find a petrol station on the satnav, as I'd see a place on our way in that didn't seem too expensive and he was very annoyed at me not getting the cheapest petrol, and he started saying how I was 'driving dangerously', because i was still accelerating for a moment when we got onto the motorway and the traffic about 100m in front was slowing down.

He bought up, yet again, a time he was convinced I was 'driving us into a wall of solid rock' in France, but I explained to him - again - and I think maybe he understood this time, that no I was not, I remember exactly what happened. We were going down a sliproad, with the rock wall to our right, and I couldn't see the motorway we were going on to very well. He had already been on my case and I was slightly on edge, but I knew what I was doing; as soon as i could see the motorway, there was a massive lorry in the lane I needed to join, relatively close.

I had a split second to make the decision either to brake suddenly on the sliproad and stop, something DH had told me never ever to do, or step hard on the accelerator and take us out in front of the lorry with a decent amount of room. I did so and he absolutely screamed at me and I had no idea it was because he thought i was heading for the rock, I probably took a split second after I'd got in lane to start steering the car on the slight curve away from the wall but that would have been all and at no time were we dangerous near it.

Anyway, today he told me 'well I know you don't like it when I say things so i don't know what to do' and I told him 'well, just say what's happening or what to do ''you're not in lane'', or ''it's slowing down ahead'', which is much better than ''You're being careless!'' or ''you're going to get us killed!''' Doing that is both more respectful, and less likely to send me into a panic so do I actually drive worse.

I hope im not posting on a thread that’s not for me, but I’ve been in a relationship with a man with ADHD for about 6 months.

I’ve totally fallen for him and in most ways we are absolutely compatible. I see this as having a future.

However, I feel like I need some help to cope with his ADHD traits. They are mostly:

• Reacting strongly to minor things that go wrong. This is often forgotten about within a few hours/days but feels out of proportion to me. Impact on me is that this event or occurrence will dominate the conversation or he’ll go quiet on text and I feel like I’ve done something wrong.
• Obsessing over certain things for a few weeks then dropping them. This isn’t a biggie but does get annoying. Impact on me: I never know what he’s interested in.
• Not planning ahead to see each other. We don’t live together and I have kids so I try to pin him down to plan in advance. He either won’t commit or he’ll say he’s free but then turn out not to be. Impact on me: I feel like second option and sometimes end up child-free with nothing planned because he’s let me down.
• Guarded about expressing his feelings. He holds back, even when I share how I feel. I wear my heart in my sleeve so this is hard! He doesn’t often reciprocate when I tell him how I feel about him.

I’m so committed to making this work but I want to learn how to handle these situations.

Does anyone have any advice? I want to start as I mean to go on but at the moment it feels like im ’putting up with’ a lot of stuff.

Best not to get too involved @Jaduria. The compromises and trying to make things work will only get worse. Many of us here are trying to leave this situation after 20 odd years.

I totally agree with @ANiceLittleHouseByTheSeaWithACatCalledBrenda .You said you are Putting up with a lot now. The longer you stay, the more you will be putting up with. 💐

@Jaduria He won't change. If you find these things to much to put up with, I would agree with PPs - just let it go. I feel like i tolerate a lot from DH, but he also tolerates my irritating characteristics. Nobody's perfect. A good relationship can be built with someone whose imperfections are tolerable to you.

How do you manage 'expectations'?
I don't even know if that's the right word.
Dh and I have begun a dialogue of sorts about where our marriage is and where its going.
He tells me he is prepared to address his adhd and do what he needs to do to "have a happy family" even though he can't elaborate on what that means for him.
I have said i will give him space to do this and won't pressure him into talking.
In the last 3 weeks we have had 2 brief talks, around 20/30 minutes each (after which we have to stop as he feels his dopamine dropping). Other than our 'talks', which he finds hard, he has read half of the first chapter of a book i gave him, Melissa Orlovs adhd & marriage, which i found really helpful. He has tried to find an adhd therapist, but that is also so hard.
He wants me to tell him all the 'wrong' things he has done in the past as he honestly doesn't know what has done. I think this will only make him feel bad, but how else do we resolve past issues? Or do we?
I honestly dont know what im doing to be honest, I dont know what I want him to do.
We are coming at this monumental crossroads from two completely different journeys apparently.
I have anger, resentment and sadness, he has bewilderment and disbelief.
Is there any way to move forward regardless if the past is resolved or even acknowledged?

@Ohdostopwafflinggeremy it sounds like he wants you to tell him what to do ‘to save the marriage’ and you want to separate (I got that right?)

I think that if you want to separate, the answer is ‘look I’m really sorry but we’ve past that stage now’. And you shouldn’t give him books to read or encouraging him to see a counsellor otherwise it’s sending him mixed messages.

If you want to give it one last chance, then I’d say supporting him to find a counsellor sounds like the first step. As you said it’s not easy. He has ADHD too and has his own health issues (memory?). But Theres no way anything will change if he can’t take SOME responsibility into the situation. I’d hope that a counsellor might help him there.
Just now it feels like he is this sort of mix from playing the victim, being overwhelmed and genuinely not knowing. But more importantly, when he says ‘just tell me what to do/what he did wrong’ he is abdicating. Even if you were to do all that and he’d understood/take it on board, as soon as the next hurdle comes, he'd be back to ‘tell me what to do’. Because you’re the one in charge, not him.
If it’s to work in any shape or form, he has to step up, take responsibility, stop treating you like mummy and look at himself.
Do you think he’d be able to do that, not just say it but actually put himself on the line?

@Jaduria , you’re in the right place 😀
Please feel free to post, comment etc….

As you might have noticed, quite a few of us are at a cross road where we’ve decided enough is enough. I feel this might skewed our view point a bit (me included) 😁

Im going to say what I wish someone had told me years and years back.

1- Your DP has a disability but this doesn’t mean that you have to bend over backwards to accommodate his disability. Some of it can be accomodated, some can’t. And what one can accommodate will vary a lot from one person to the next.
eg you say you’re struggling to see switching from one interest to the next very quickly. I dint think it would bother me but it doesn’t mean it shouldn’t bother you!
But more to the point, don’t assume that because those points (might be) are related to ND, then if things are sticky, then it’s your fault (for not being able to deal with it/for finding it hard etc…). And you have to find a way to make it work.

2- what are your needs? And his? Because if SOME of them are not compatible, then it’s a no go, regardless of how compatible you are in other areas.
The way he is reacting to events is clearly upsetting you. There isn’t a lot you can do about that. I mean you can try and reframe, detach etc…. but the reality is that you find that triggering.
If the ‘solution’ is somethimg that means you or your DP having to watch yourself all the time, then your needs aren’t compatible.
eg you constantly reframe his outbursts, tell yourself it’s about him not you etc…. OR he stops himself from saying what he has in his mind fur fear of upsetting you etc….

3- love isn’t a norm, it’s a verb. It’s something you do.
When looking at the way he is, do you feel cared for (eg when he has an outburst)? Respected (eg when he can’t plan ahead)? Intimate (eg when he guarded about his feelings)?
You should be in the honey moon phase now. If you’re questioning things at this stage, then maybe things aren’t as good as they look.

Accommodation to his needs should come second to all of those point imo.
And I’m saying that as someone who is (physically) disabled btw.
(And Quite a few of us are ND themselves too)

Thank you so much.

At the moment I am happy and willing to work around them - after all, we all have quirks and sometimes those quirks will be confusing for other people. The changing interests doesn’t really bother me, the main things are the lack of openness and the inability to make plans.

To complicate matters, I bring my own hang ups and anxieties to this — for example, when I perceive him being distant sometimes that’s just my own relationship anxiety making it up. I’ve a history of rejection. And I do have a tendency to want to make concrete plans well in advance. So I’m not sure what’s me and what’s him, if that makes sense.

I think I’m just anxious to get things right so we can be together. The main thing is I want to help him open up because when I know stuff I can deal with it. It’s the not knowing I find hard. But I also understand why he holds back from being open because it’s still such early days.

I guess I was hoping for some tips :)

@SpecialMangeTout3 Thank you.
You're right, he does just want me to tell him what to do, how to fix it. He has even said "I want things to go back to the way they were" I definitely dont want that.
Our "The way things were" are two completely different realities i now see.
I really dont know if he is capable of dealing with any of this on his own, without me 'giving him direction'. It's all new territory, for both of us.
I actually dont know if I want to save our marriage, dont know if it can be saved, but i dont want to be the one that pulls the plug either.
How can one marriage have two completely opposing sides. My half is so broken and probably irreparable whilst his side is slightly tarnished with no repairs necessary 😢

And I get that.
The problem I have with tips is that I found them unhelpful to me in the long run so I’m in two minds about sharing any of it 😁

But @Ohdostopwafflinggeremy mentioned a book she found helpful: Melissa Orlovs adhd & marriage
Now I appreciate you’re not at the point of getting married! But it might have some good pointers.

Essentially, would you be happier living without him? Try not to factor in the guilt too much. It sounds as if that might be root of your wavering..? When you say you don’t want to be the one to pull the plug. That sounds like guilt talking maybe? DB in the same situation. If she said let’s face it, it’s over, he would put up zero fight and would probably be relieved. But is that a good enough reason to stay with someone in marriage? I wouldn’t want to be with someone only because they felt too guilty to leave me.

I am happier living without him. When he is away at work it is so much better, for me and the kids.
Part of the problem has been him being home & ill for the last 6 months. It has brought an otherwise contained situation to a head.
Absolutely, guilt is playing a huge part in my hesitating to call it a day. If I could simply not live with dh without all the stress, upheaval, guilt, worry and fear that would come with it, it would be done already.
And yes, like your db, if dh called it a day, I would be relieved 😌

Look: already you are thinking about this in a very complicated and odd way. If you know you have issues around abandonment and rejection that doesn’t make his issues more palatable it makes them more salient.

You seem to think “he’s imperfect but so am I.” That’s not a good way of determining fit. You are perfect for someone. And he is perfect for someone. You would know if its you because his habits and tendencies would delight you instead of frustrating and triggering your insecurities.

You are entitled to look for, and have, the total package. A man who is solid, secure, and securely attached to you in a way that makes you feel secure. Don’t settle for someone who seems pretty nice and like a boyfriend but eho has his own way if doing things that you don’t like. He won’t change and if you try to warp yourself around him you will end up bent out of shape.

Which is the worse prospect? Living as you are for the next 20-30 years or the temporary upheaval and guilt? Guilt will fade over time I think. Also guilt can be a really unhelpful emotion! It can stop us being brave, it can force us to live a life which makes us unhappy. It’s OK to want a better life for yourself. It’s OK to put yourself first for once. It’s OK not to live your life just to make someone else’s easier. You’ve done your time!

I always say I wouldn’t tell anyone to leave. And here I am trying to convince you to do just that! Although I’m not really. It’s your life and your choice and making the decision and seeing it through is really hard (the seeing it through part being hardest of all!). I guess I’m trying to give you approval to do what you want to do and to put that inner voice of doubt and guilt and worry in its place. If you did decide to this, then all of it will be worked out. It seems huge, but you’d manage. DH’s comfort isn’t your reason for being on this planet. You can still care, you can still help if you want to. You don’t have to abandon him. But it’s also OK to want that inner peace that comes when he isn’t living in your space.

I totally recognise that feeling, that you’d be relieved if they called time on the marriage @Ohdostopwafflinggeremy

But then I think about either of us having to live apart from our kids and the guilt gets me - for him and for them.

I don’t think there are any easy answers. My situation is quite different - DH is more ASD with hints of ADHD - so not sure I have anything helpful to add, other than empathy, because being the only/main grown up is hard, and feeling like it’s all on you to decide is really tough. When I’m turning a decision over and over I find it helpful to “park it” for a bit to give myself a break from what can feel like a doom loop of endless whirring cogs, with no decision in sight…

@Jaduria you sound like you are doing all the hefty lifting here, trying to change because you like him so much. I think you need to remember that he should also be making an effort with you, and if he's not/not changing, you just cant make that happen. And you deserve someone who prioritises you the same way.

You're a mum as well, as am I, so its even tougher for you to organise plans etc. I really empathise with you running yourself ragged to make things run smoothly. I think you need to reframe things and observe more how he behaves. Consider how will this work if you want more children, or even with your kids at present. Look at the bigger picture and try and see how this could look to you.