Married to someone with Asperger’s/ASD/ND: support thread 16

[BustyLaRoux]

New thread.
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This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND ourselves, very many of us have ND children. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.
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It's complicated and it's emotional.
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The old thread is here.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5299389-married-to-someone-with-aspergersasdnd-support-thread-15?page=1

I think it’s just perspective, we tell ourselves and we convince ourselves of whatever we need to hear because we feel or we are trapped. If you are trapped then convincing yourself that it’s better because you can “manage” your OH feels better. We are all going to be judged whatever we tell ourselves. So many people spend a
lifetime in less then ideal relationships because they have convinced themselves that staying causes less harm, leaving just feels too scary. I guess we have to just wait and see the outcomes of our choices because blame is assigned by others and our children may well just hold us accountable, or not. It would be easier if we hand a crystal ball!

@Sweetandsaltycaroline

I can relate to this. Unfortunately DS is diagnosed so I feel like I’m carrying two people. DH is just so bad at functioning outside of his narrow remit. I hoped it would get easier but it hasn’t really. Now I’m in the menopause I’m struggling even more with everything.

But do we have to assign blame to anyone?

Yes childhood trauma is shit.
And yes it impacts everything (or at least it does with me!).

But I don’t feel blaming anyone helps me. But rather blame seems to put me in this place where I’m handing all the responsibility for my struggles to someone that 1- can’t really do much about it, and 2- is unwilling to do anything anyway.
The result for me is loosing agency.

For me understanding the reasons/causes of said trauma helps me finding the right solutions. It helps me understand why I react a certain way because then I can change stuff to something that works better for me. Somethimg that makes me feel empowered.

There is a similar distinction fur me between excuses and reason than there is between blame and a reason. A reason allows you to understand and act. An excuse or blame leaves you more powerless.

Yes @SpecialMangeTout3 i have come to the same conclusion. I no longer blame anyone. Everyone did what they thought was right.

But I did blame. As the child of an autistic parent and one who essentially drove my mum to do what she did, I felt angry and sad and I wanted to blame someone or something. Until recently actually.

My mum blamed herself. I blamed my dad. I think women have a tendency to blame themselves and I think children have a tendency to blame their parents.

It’s only now I’m in a better place and am middle aged I can take a more objective view and, like you, come to the conclusion that some things just are the way they are and it’s unhelpful to blame anyone.

There are advantages to ageing. I definitely more at peace in my life than I ever have before.

I’m off to sing Kumbaya if anyone wants me….

I think there is a time for most people where they go through a period of blame. As we grow we come out the other side of it. A child will see the world very black and white and sometimes we hold onto this behaviour. I absolutely blamed my mum and was seething mad for many years before I really understood her Autism. My lack of connection and understanding with her messed me up as I really needed it. I’ve made some terrible choices in life that led me down a very depressive path.

For me, learning about ND, relationship dynamics, abuse (Why Does He Do That is a great book for this) and how generational trauma is a thing, I am also more at peace with my parents and my childhood.

My DF was/is a difficult man at times and life was definitely a lot more peaceful once my mum left him. Yet, they continued to be friends and although that might have confused me at times (how can she be friends with him after he treated her so badly?! I used to think) I can now see that he does have many good qualities and many of his behaviours were down to his autism (self diagnosed after I gave him a book on ASD to help him understand DD) and OCD (diagnosed many years ago). I don't blame my DM for taking many years to leave him and I now understand why my DF was so different from other kids dads at school.

He's checked in on her when she went through cancer treatment (twice over 5 years) and she's checked in on him during his decline this spring and summer.

I completely agree with everything you’ve said. I think I’ve also accepted poor behaviour and made some shitty choices, as I suppose was conditioned to do so. It was important to me to show my kids that you don’t have to stand for it. That’s not to say that I judge someone for not leaving, just that I reached the end of my road with their dad. And I also have very firm boundaries in place with DP now. I hope they don’t blame me. But I’m sure they’ll find a way. Philip Larkin springs to mind….

I think it’s a road many walk down. Until their child has kids of their own and realises it’s fucking hard being a parent 😂! I suppose very open communication with no defensiveness would go a long way. I would absolutely not be able to approach my mum with any of my issues about her as a mum growing up. You can’t get closure with people who can’t see others perspectives. I tried that with my ex and my closure was acceptance that I’d get none.

In some ways I've gone the opposite way and seen more of the flaws in my mum's parenting as I've got older and had kids. Not that I consider it that flawed but I do think she gave up too much of herself and compromised too much. She was always 'give in to the angry person for an easy life' and my dad could be pretty angry, though not generally with us, I think she got and still gets most of it. They kept arguments well out of our way and perhaps it was too much because I found it very hard to deal with DH and his family's anger intially, it felt really 'hateful' although it wasn't really. Initially I responded to DH's anger by kind of folding and cowering, but when it came to the kids I found my ability to stand my ground.

As I think I've mentioned here, DH has talked about how his dad always sided with his mum so I wanted to my kids to at least see me stand up for them when he loses it.

I think a lot of us in these kinds of relationships with loved ones have pushed the line in the sand back too far. The relationship dies form death by a thousand cuts. I think it’s extremely easy to do. I think my dad did this with my mum. Behaviour and identity are not always the same thing and they can be great people with difficult behaviour and this causes confusion. It’s good to allow a certain amount of slack because it is a disability but how much slack is too much slack. Each individual behaviour and occasion isn’t too bad but over time it just becomes too much.

Does anyone have a boomer in their life that you suspect is ND?

That’s a whole different challenge

🙋‍♀️ Yes, my mother. She's 85 now and starting to need a lot of help. This is very challenging because she can't cope with anything not being done exactly how she wants it done, how she wants it done. She also has no filter and says what she thinks, which often upsets people and makes them less likely to help. She gets overwhelmed with having other people in her home. As I say, it's challenging...

When and how did you become aware that she’s probably ND? What was your earliest (hold up) moment?

I strongly suspect my mother.

Well, I guess my dad yes. My mum is in poor health and I think doesn't have that many years left and I've been thinking my dad will need a lot of support when she's gone - if he's anything like his own dad, he will live a good while yet. He's not naturally sociable, although at least he has a voluntary role that gets him out of the house. He's going quite deaf as well so my bro and I will probably need to provide social life - I have a sister as well, but she lives out of town. I have been thinking thank God I'm not one of those women who will end up doing all the parent care because I'm the daughter, as I know my brother will also make the effort.

Parents are like this, esp my dad, despite having no ND. Trauma is at the root for them.

They're also in a different country, have no family or a support network around them. They live in a completely unsuitable house too.

I can see them starting to go downhill cognitively.
my dad has had quite a few falls.

if I’m honest, I’m both dreading it and thinking ‘well they chose to move away 5 years ago. They’re going to have to live with that choice’ (they were living about 45mins away from me before. I’m an only child so no other support).
The reality is that I’m nit going to be able to do much fir them from where I am. And I’d be doing it wrong anyway….

Yes, my DF, and yes, him being not officially diagnosed is causing a lot of issues now he is in ill health, frail in need of extra care.

He actually discharged himself from hospital after a stroke last summer, without having completed treatment or waited for tests. He then wrote a letter to the hospital consultant, to explain that the hospital environment was difficult for him with his 'particular needs'.

Since then he's refused follow up checks and treatment and wouldn't let my DB shop for him (he probably wouldn't buy the correct brands or the very particularl items he wants) or help him (again, this would disturb the routine), instead he insisted on driving his car to the one shop he can do his shopping from (We later found out he wasn't allowed to drive and the police have now physically removed his licence) and sort of pretended that he was ok.

Until he couldn't cope, but of course he wouldn't tell anyone and because he lives like a recluse it went unnoticed how very bad things had become, until eventually, he became so frail he fell broke his hip. We've then had four months of him being in and out of hospital with influenza, a second hip fracture and then pneumonia. So he is really struggling with having carers now and refuses to do any of the physio therapy or exercises that the OT tries to get him to do.

Some of this would obviously still happen without ND in the mix, but it's made things more complicated as he has created a very isolated and reclusive life for himself. Basically living alone surrounded by his model trains and cars/motorcycles. My DM phoned him regularly to check be he insisted that he was fine. Going over again in a few weeks!

@NDornotND you have just described my aunt who's 89 exactly. It's so difficult to deal with isn't it.

She also has dementia and will leave things round the house but will not accept she has moved things and forgotten but insists SOMEBODY must have moved it, even though she lives alone and knows very well that she can't remember things. She simply cannot ever be wrong.

What happens to an autistic brain when met
with something that is not what they think? What is in the place of simply being wrong or not agreed with?

Yes, my dad. After my mother died two years ago I am in charge of everything in his household. It's been challenging to say the least.

I have wondered a lot about that. My dad also always has to be the opposite of everybody else. If I say that the sky is blue, he will get very agitated and claim that it's not, because there are white clouds and sunsets are yellow and orange and pink and yesterday a rainstorm was coming in and the sky was dark grey.

It's insufferable.

I think i gradually realised after finding out a lot about neurodiversity while trying to understand DH and DS. It just became obvious to me - the need for a rigid routine (coffee must be at 11 am - not 10.50 or 11.10), how things must be to her very exacting specifications (e.g. she tried asking her cleaner to help her make the bed, but she didn't tuck it in properly), decades of regular retreats to her room for a day or two with a mystery illness described as 'her usual', which i now strongly suspect is autistic shutdown, reputation for being very blunt, etc. etc. She had to retire early on health grounds - i think the regular shutdowns. Various sensory issues. She never hugged us or showed any physical affection as children, whereas my dad is a big hugger. I could go on, but I will stop now.

So, handhold.... today is the day we talk to the therapist about DS' feedback to her about DH. I have no idea how it's going to go.... two possibilities seem either what I hope for, which is that DH feels ashamed and devastated and wants to do something about it (whether he manages or not is another question) or else he goes into rejection mode and gets angry at everyone for being against him and not trusting him. Third possibility is he holds it together in front of therapist, then gets angry afterwards. Or maybe something else I didn't see coming. I keep reminding myself not to plan what I'm going to say because I don't know what will happen and also it's the therapist who will lead any discussion.

I'm supposed to go out with oldest tonight, but I've told them I may have to bail because DH, DS and I may need to talk, or it may work best if oldest and I go out and DH maybe does something nice with DS.

That’s tough @Echobelly hope it’s a positive outcome…..although I’m aware blame and rejection is a possibility too. Hopefully if the initial outcome is DH reacting badly he may come round after some time once he’s not on the spot. 🤞🏻🤞🏻

Oh yeah, and it doesn't help that last night, MIL phoned, was immediately annoying and provoking, which led to an hour long phone call of mostly him shouting at her. I'm not going to say I feel immensely sorry for her, as this is reaping what she sewed as a parent, but it's ironic because I feel I want to say to DH that his son could be having these phone conversations with him in a decade or so's time if he doesn't change his attitude.

I can almost sense the foreboding and anticipation for you @Echobelly. I'm glad your DS has a safe space to express how he feels but realise how easily this can lead to blame and defensiveness. Hope it goes OK

As we are into school holidays, we are into the broken record of DH moaning (mainly to me but anyone else who'll listen) about how awful it is that DS will spend all day on his Xbox all summer. I must admit that I too hate the amount of time he spends on it particularly as we are mostly working out of the house. However I talk through with DS plans he could make with friends, suggest ideas, insist he messages them to make plans, get him to contact the sports club to see if they need any helpers and try to arrange my work so that I have at least 1 day at home each week. DH approach is to constantly whinge about how it's the worst thing "we" ever bought. (He had no input because knowing what DC want for xmas or birthday /buying things they want or need unless to do with his own preferred interests is not on DH radar) He keeps on saying why does DS not recreate his own 1960s/70s childhood go cycling, swimming or fishing. I took DC to swimming lessons for years, but I can barely swim myself so didn't really back it up with swimming for fun. Which I feel guilty about. DH does not share that guilt, because it just wouldn't occur that he ever needed to actively do anything with them, when he had other things he would prefer to be doing. I mentioned yesterday when he started on his rant, that they don't swim for fun because we never took them so he said yesterday evening "we should all go swimming at the weekend!" Of course no one wanted to!

DS had his report card last week, and got really good grades in all subjects. This barely got DH attention (he cant/wont understand numbered grades - despite DD having the same system of grades 4 years ago--) and yet the only thing he ever tells anyone about is how he spends all day on an Xbox.