Married to someone with Asperger’s/ASD/ND: support thread 16

[BustyLaRoux]

New thread.
__
This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND ourselves, very many of us have ND children. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.
__
It's complicated and it's emotional.
__
The old thread is here.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5299389-married-to-someone-with-aspergersasdnd-support-thread-15?page=1

@Ohdostopwafflinggeremy Maybe 20 years ago that absolutely was the right decision, you acted on what information you had at that time. You weren't to know your DH was ND or that things would turn out the way they did. At the time it probably seemed like an amazing opportunity and had you turned it down imyou may have lived with that regret.

It's great that you are able to talk to the kids about it, it sounds like they are understanding of the situation and not blaming you 🫂

Nobody can act on things that they aren’t aware of. I think this does set us apart from those whose who can’t be aware, they have a genuine disability in this area. We however don’t have this excuse. Once we are aware we have to act because it’s the burying our head in the sand which is the hardest to forgive. It is something we may hear about from our children later on as they mature. “Dad/mum has a disability so I understand why he/she is like this. What I don’t understand is you don’t, or you were aware so why did you not act”.

I sometimes think how blissful ignorance must feel! We carry the weight of awareness!

What about if both parents are ND? My autism stopping me from leaving for a long time as I find it overwhelming and I am also socially isolated as no 'village' due to social awkwardness, my H not being aware of himself having issues with emotional regulation and being a bit of an arse and bully at times.

I can totally agree with you and what you said actually helps me see that for years I just didn't see dh's* *adhd. Blissfully unaware.
Too busy holding everything together. Totally unaware that I was frantically papering over the cracks, unaware that our house was crumbling down.
I think that's what's eating me up inside, the ball of cement in my stomach, the overwhelming feeling of not being able to breathe.Its guilt and denial and awareness.
I am totally aware now of what dh has done to this family and I know I have to do something. I know I have to act. I'm terrified

@Ohdostopwafflinggeremy - wishing you strength, lots of hard stuff to process.

I do worry whether the kids will resent me for not doing more to rein DH in. I mean, I think there is a lot of love for him and I don't think they'd wish I'd divorced or something.

At the end of the day I don't feel like divorce would solve anything anyway, he'd still have the kids some of the time, only without me there. Well, maybe only DS, oldest is old enough to state in that scenario they only want to live with me, which would be a possibility.

Annoyingly, difficult conversation with therapist on DS's feedback may not happen for a while - she suggested a date but we already have an immovable appointment that afternoon, plus dozen family coming over for dinner that night so it really would not be the day for a probably very stressful and upsetting discussion. Then therapist is off for a few weeks for an operation, then we'll be on holiday!

Nowadays everybody would say my father had some sort of high-functioning autism. Apart from being non-communicative, controlling and rigid, he was also violent. I don't know if this was something to do with 'meltdowns'. Or he was just violent. Perhaps he thought he was entitled to be and it was our/my fault for doing something or not doing something.

Anyway, I do blame my mother for not leaving him. Perhaps she'd got so used to minimising his behaviour. Perhaps she was 'groomed' by him. I believed she loved him, was sorry for him - and in her own mind he was a 'good' man. Perhaps she just thought men came first and children ought to do as they were told, even if was they were told to do was not in any way normal or reasonable.

Your mother may have experienced cognitive dissonance, or like a frog in boiling water, she may have gradually become accustomed to his abuse.

Would she have been able to leave him? Was there much help, financial or practical, for women of her generation? Would he have made life hell for her or even harmed her physically? Asking as someone who left a violent abusive man 15 years ago, it was hard enough to do so then and I can't even imagine what it was like in previous generations.

No fault divorces were introduced in the 1970s and I think her mother would have given her financial help. There were other marriages I knew of during my childhood and teenage years that ended in divorce. I think she basically didn't have the guts.

Sounds difficult @PollyHutchen you we're raised in an abusive household. What I was suggesting is that there are some complex reasons why women don't leave abusive men, but as a child, it might be natural to blame the mother.

Oh, I do think about why my mother stayed. But I always told myself that for me the children would come first. I blame my father more than I blame my mother. But it's not a great feeling that you were sacrificed. And it makes me feel sick when I listen to my mother re-making him in her memory, pretending that he was better than he really was. As the girl I was particularly sacrificed - she just liked looking after men.

I do agree that children must come first, absolutely. It must be very unpleasant hearing her re-writing the past, which essentially minimises the harm and hurt caused 🫂

So we've fixed the conversation with the therapist for next Tuesday. DS actually has a friend's birthday party going from afternoon into the evening so I've asked friend's mum if I can drop him at theirs early so basically he's not in he house, and I'll suggest oldest makes plans to be out.

Oldest and I are supposed to be going out that night but I'd better be prepared to bail (it wouldn't be a big deal) if it looks like I should be around- not necessarily meaning anything bad, but it may be a three way discussion ASAP afterwards would be a good idea.

I think that blaming the mother ‘who didn’t leave’ is a too simplistic view of things.
All of us on this thread are over functioning, holding on our finger nails, buffering interactions between our dh and the dcs, supporting dh etc etc etc…. That’s without adding a child who is ND and needs support or some childhood trauma for us.
This, in itself, leaves very little space and energy to actually put a plan together to leave. Rather most of the time is spent fire fighting and dealing with the next catastrophe. And it’s traumatic in itself. It’s not failing to leave. It’s living in survival mode most if the time,
On the top of it, the reality is that our children WILL have contact with their father. With no one to buffer their quirks, no one to ensure theyre safe. Maybe it will be EOW. Maybe it will be longer periods (eg during the hols or 50/50). The impact of those contact time on the dcs isn’t going to be negligible either. It’s not like the children will suddenly not experience any negative situations. It might well be harder to manage with us as a buffer.
So I feel that putting a lot of the responsibility for what the dc’s experience on ‘the parent who stayed’ isn’t right. The reality is that the hurt is due to the ND/behaviours of the ND person. The source of harm isn’t the buffer.
So let’s put the responsibility where it belongs. No child should need to be protected in the first place.

Does it mean that we should all stay put? That it’s ok to rewrite history or ignore the hurt, to not listen to our dcs when they come to say that xyz happened and they feel hurt? Of course not.
Unfortunately, for the best outcome, it also requires us to be even more clued up, emotionally tuned up etc… which in itself isn’t easy either

This! 👏

@SpecialMangeTout3 Well put.
It's exhausting, all the time, trying to keep everything spinning, everything running smoothly. Looking out for everyone, trying to preempt any discord. Knowing it would be easier with 'the issue' removed, but removing 'the issue' involves so much head space and planning and mental resources you just dont have the energy for. So you stay a little bit longer, just getting through another day.
One day you'll have the energy to deal with,just not today.

I don’t think that anyone is just blaming the mother, but it certainly isn’t the child’s fault. But sadly in a lot of these situations this is the person who ends up carrying the blame and the trauma into adulthood. As difficult as it feels (and I’ve been in a nasty marriage) it’s a two person dance. We carry trauma from exactly the same situation in a viscous cycle and so it continues unless one person stands off the merry go round, as difficult and awful and scary as this feels. The source of harm to the child is irrelevant. I certainly couldn’t care less which one of my parents caused my trauma, they both did.

At the end of the day, how DH can be isn't bad enough to merit leaving it itself. When it happens it's bad, but it's not constant and, as you say @SpecialMangeTout3 , if things aren't bad enough to demand 100 per cent custody, then there's no point doing it to 'protect the kids'.

Such an interesting discussion! For me, I don’t blame my DM for staying with my dad. I believe she thought she was doing the right thing. We didn’t know about autism back then. So there’s knowing. And there’s not knowing. And something in between where you know something is definitely not right. You know it’s harmful and awful. But you don’t really understand it. And mostly we are all just trying to get through the day.

I find it interesting because we’re talking in terms of blame for the non-autistic parent for staying and essentially subjecting (by way of inaction to leave) the children to the harmful behaviours of the autistic parent. In my case my DM walked out one day and left me and my DB behind with him! I don’t believe she could take anymore. Although she blamed herself for leaving (and I think that destroyed her in the end), I have never blamed her for abandoning us. She did what she had to do.

Our dad met all of our practical needs, something which she felt she would never be able to do as she had no money and nowhere to go. He met none of our emotional needs though. None. We weren’t really permitted to have emotions. He, on the other hand, had to have his emotions managed constantly (by me). It was pretty rough to be honest. Although I was grieving my mother moving away, I had to be my father’s emotional crutch. I talked him out of suicide many times, often late for school the next day as we had been up until the small hours while he sobbed and threatened to throw himself in front of the train the next day. Not one teacher or relative checked if I was OK.

I blame him. He was a shit dad. It’s never occurred to me to blame my mum.

I guess that’s the bit I find interesting. Here we are listening to people saying they feel guilty for staying!!! Jeez. I wish my mum would have stayed. For those of you who have stayed: you’re a fucking hero in my eyes!!

The feeling that your mother does not think you are worth protecting from physical assault is not a great one.

Gosh so many of us were ‘parentified’ as kids, and really taking on that ‘over facilitator’ role.

The blame in some way is irrelevant, it’s what our brains and bodies do growing up around it. It’s what we normalise and it’s the type of relationships we find ourselves in as adults because we aren’t taught safe relationships. It’s the trauma we build up as we go through life. I made awful relationship choices, I’m not sure about whether you did? There will be trauma either way, stay or leave, I get that. But leaving surely teaches something to your children about relationships, that we don’t have to stay.

Yeah, I mean in some ways you’re damned whatever you do. If you stay: why don’t you leave? If you leave: why didn’t you leave sooner? Why did you choose that partner to have kids with?

So much blame. I suppose everyone is trying to do their best. Me blaming my dad…even that has faded with time. I guess it’s not really his fault. He doesn’t know any better. I was angry at the faceless “autism” as a condition for a long time. How it had blighted my life and essentially taken away my mum, not once, but twice. And I directed it at my dad. I don’t know if blame is even the right word any more. I am sad when I see other dads because I wish they could have been mine. I sometimes get tearful when I see videos of Joe Wicks because he seems like such a lovely kind dad who has overcome such a difficult start in life. How dedicated he is to his children and to children in general. How much effort he puts in to be the best dad he can be every day. What a lovely life those kids must have. (I sound jealous! I’m not. I am happy for them, and all the other children who are lucky enough to have great parents). I wish my dad had been able to give a quarter of what he has to offer. I know that must sound ridiculous!

I have no blame left in me. I hope that those who feel they are to blame see another side: you did your best. I am not excusing those parents who stayed with a violent man and allowed their children to be subjected to that. I would fully understand someone feeling the way they do. But for mothers on here wondering if they could have done more, should have done things differently: please don’t blame yourself. It isn’t your fault.

I'm fairly sure my Dad is autistic, I'm almost certain his late sister was. Dad was always more emotionally distant than mum, but we shared and still share a lot intellectually. I think I just thought all dads were like that,, and I suppose quite a lot are, especially in his generation.

I think my mum is whatever the most opposite of autistic is!

I've never said "out loud" that I've thought of leaving...but it has crossed my mind occassionally. When DC were little, I actually felt it would be worse to leave because without detailed instructions I wouldn't trust him to instinctively put their needs first if he had them on his own (I wouldn't now but they are teens and able to speak up, and do things for themselves)
I still remember a few times when they were eg 6-8, I slept pretty badly and he would get up v early (still the case tbh) and at a weekend I would lie in and he would go downstairs with DC. I would come down maybe an hour or 2 later and see he'd made himself a cooked breakfast. I asked DC what they had and they would say they hadn't had breakfast. Then he'd get annoyed with them that they hadn't had breakfast!! I've realised he's pretty much "out of sight, out of mind" for all family but they were in the same house!
Another time they were a bit older (8 and 11 maybe) and I went out to meet friends for dinner. I got back at 11.15pm and he was watching something on TV, and they were still up because "he didn't know what the time was"

For a long time I thought it was difficult for him to adjust to putting other people first because he was in his mid 40s when they were born...but hoped he'd get the hang of it....After 19 years of parenthood I've lowered my expectations (and it hurts that DC have too)