Married to someone with Asperger’s/ASD/ND: support thread 16

[BustyLaRoux]

New thread.
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This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND ourselves, very many of us have ND children. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.
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It's complicated and it's emotional.
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The old thread is here.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5299389-married-to-someone-with-aspergersasdnd-support-thread-15?page=1

A lot of people don’t seem to be able to acknowledge how their behaviour affects others. I guess that is what comes with only seeing the world via yourself. It does appear extremely narcissistic though.

It’s entirely possible isn’t it? A person who feels shame and is pre empting an imagined scenario where someone says “why didn’t you do more as a parent?” Or perhaps even internalised shame at not having been a good enough parent. Seems to manifest as attacking the child somehow. I don’t mean just with @Echobelly ’s DH.

I suppose to a greater or lesser degree we all see our children as a reflection of us as parents. We want to be proud of them. And in some way, if and when we are, it reflects well on us. Or we feel it does. Is that more pronounced if the parent is autistic I wonder.? I’d say yes it is in the three autistic people closest to me. They shamelessly boast about their children. To quite a socially annoying degree! I think largely because it feels like praise FOR THEM and perhaps they’re not inhibited by the same social constraints as the rest of us, where abject boasting about one’s offspring might be considered gauche.

I don’t think so. It’s probably a bit annoying to some people but I have read some threads and it is soooo very obvious the partner they’re talking about must almost certainly be ND of some kind (usually autistic).

Thanks @ItReallyDoesntMatterAnymore

Yes, I think he would be open to therapy though he does get incredibly defensive when challenged on this. It’s weird, almost like a delusion, when het gets caught up in it - he is convinced he is the ‘victim’ of DSs’ ‘laziness’/‘disobedience’/‘refusal’ to learn, he doesn’t seem realise how absurd and pathetic that sounds.

As therapist said to me, he needs to reframe this all – DS is not the problem here. I think that if DH does kick off like this when therapist talks about it when we’re together I’m going to try to say, as gently as possible… this isn’t normal. He needs help because his response is not normal. He is seeing something no one else is seeing, not because they’re too ‘nice’, not because they’re too close and can’t see DS’ faults, not because DS has manipulated everyone around him. Because it is an echo of his fear that he is ‘not good enough’. It’s what his mum tried to do to him for not being the right kind of son, to emotionally harrass him into being the son she wanted. Which didn’t work

How do I get dh to grasp the level of damage he has done over the years to our kids?
Now that he has 'started looking into' adhd and is prepared to 'do what he has to' to stay together. He seems to think that a few tweeks here and there will be enough to transform our family.
He insists that by asking a few more questions to them he is trying to connect more. I have explained that years of teaching them that he's not interested has created the relationship they have.
The kids dont want him to try, they find it awkward as it doesn't feel natural, him trying to converse.
I have stopped being the middle man, trying to hold everything together and im not going to keep pushing him to be a better father.
Do I just back off totally and let them get on with it.
Will he ever 'Get it'

And the trouble with adhd is consistency... they start doing something about it or they do it for a bit but then something else comes along and they stop.

Probably not. To feel the damage he has done would equate to ego inhalation and immense shame. Plus you can’t grow the kind of empathy that you can feel. You are I feel asking for the impossible. It would be like asking the sun to stop coming up in the morning.

Thanks @Percypigspjs .
I know you're right, that he will never fully grasp how much he has damaged our kids and no amount of 'trying ' will make up for years of neglect.
Ds just wants him to 'fuck off'. Dd wishes he would go to work and not come back.
I'm so sad for my kids though. Do I keep pushing dh to try or do I throw in the towel and admit defeat.
They are older teens, almost young adults and both know there own minds. I just feel like such a failure, like I should have prevented them being hurt like this.

Too much water under the bridge for them.

I would be very careful to fully acknowledge their feelings because it could look like enabling and sometimes this is just as bad as the person behaving “abusively” or “invalidating”.

You mean dont dismiss the level of pain they feel?
I really think i do see it from their perspective, I dont apologise for dh, and i talk to them. What i can do to help them, acknowledge he has been neglectful etc.
By me staying with dh, for whatever reasons, is that enabling though.
I think im 'not rocking the boat' by staying while they are still in school. Am I actually enabling the appalling situation to continue?
I've been thinking so much about everything that I seem to have no idea which way is up at the moment.

I was annoyed at my dad for enabling my mums behaviour. Telling me it’s ok, you know what she is like etc. I think it’s very personal and complex and each situation is different. I know in abusive situations sometimes the kids blame the parent for staying. I don’t think it’s something someone can answer.

It's a tricky on and one to think about now that your DH is on medication and things are a bit more stable. By openly acknowledging that his behaviours are not ok to the DC, and by not smoothing things over or making excuses for his behaviour, you are hopefully modeling to the DC that you are not ok with his behaviours and are taking a stand.

In terms of leaving, you could begin by looking at what the options are. Is there equity in the house, can you claim UC, what are your housing needs and what might your DH want etc. Turn2us have a good calculator for checking benefits etc.

This is something I'm painfully considering a lot, in fact DD has on at least one occasion expressed annoyance with me for making her life miserable, in reference to why I am with H. I don't make excuses for his behaviours though and always support her when he's having 'a moment' (burn half the teddies comes to mind).

I am making plans to leave now though and I'm hoping that I haven't left it too late. My concerns when she was younger was that I didn't think H could have coped well with co-parenting and now she is older (nearly 11) she will not only have more say in where she spends her time, but she will also be able to feed herself, keep safe etc.

We've had a lot going on with several bereavements in H's family , years of on and off school avoidance and with me being full time carer and unable to work I felt financially trrapped for a long time, all of which have made it less of an option to just leave sooner.

We have to remember that young children do not have the logic to understand their parents. Their nervous systems grow around their childhoods. My childhood caused me great emotional distress that has lasted over 40 years. Both my parents are to blame for this. As an adult I forgive my parents BUT the dynamic they created has had long term effects on me. I have to live with their choices even if they have chosen to move on etc. I suspect this is true of many family’s. We can only do our best and sometimes damage is unavoidable but sad.

@Ohdostopwafflinggeremy i think the fact your dcs are comfortable enough to tell you what they think about their dad is huge. It’s a sign of the trust they have in you that they can confide about how they feel. That’s important.

I also think that somehow you’re still hoping your dh might get better, might finally get it. I have to say I agree with @Percypigspjs . Even if getting the ADHD diagnosis was to open the doors to change, this will take years for him to really change. We’re not talking about tweaking the edges there but really deep profound stuff, including working in all the protection mechanisms he has put in place over the years.

Now that your dcs have voiced their feelings that clearly, I fear that they’ll read staying as you not listening to them. What they’ll see is you staying iyswim.

And YY. tell them you disagree with the way he is reacting/acting. Stand up for them when he is hurtful towards them. Validate their feelings. That’s important!

But I would start looking at what life could be wo him. Both on a very practical pov (financial, house etc….) and by stepping back emotionally from him (not stepping up for him, trying to ‘save him’ by supporting him change etc…. That’s not, never has been, your responsibility).
Plus, things are stable just now re his health. That’s good. I’d be really mindful to not stay so long that you’ll end up caught up in the ‘I can’t possibly keave now that he is so unwell and getting worse’ scenario. Frim where I stand, it feels like you have an opportunity that you dint want to miss.

I agree with you @Percypigspjs, not the least because it sounds like I’m in a similar position re life long dealing with the ‘leftovers’ from my childhood.

But I think we also need to be careful of not expecting from ourselves (or anyone really) to be the perfect parent that will not have ‘hurt or damage’ their child.
More importantly, children need parents that are emotionally available and showing what repair and growth are.

Yes but you will not get repair from someone repeatedly denying that they have caused harm, whatever the reason why. Repair comes from acknowledging and change. In this type of situation you get an adult child who eventually wipes their hands of their parent. If they don’t visit one parent they don’t visit either. I strongly feel if you want a relationship with your child you have to abandon all hope of it being one including the other parent. It feels selfish for sure. It is up to the other parent to do the really hard work of forming a relationship, it is not our job. We can end up loosing if we think like this.

I loved my dad immensely but that was not a family home for me, I never felt at ease or at peace despite him living there. I stopped visiting. It is just my experience though
so others will be different.

I should add I have beaten myself up for not seeing him as much I wanted before he died.

I think this is my biggest fear. That when they do leave home, they will choose not to visit me if I still live with their father.
I choose my kids over dh, always, every time.
I'm just beginning to understand that the the material & financial security i think im giving them now is being paid for with our emotional and mental wellbeing.
I live in his country, don't even know where to start looking for information regarding divorce/separation/benefits. I am financially dependent on him which makes it worse. It's all a bit of a clusterfuck at the moment. I do know though that if I was financially independent or even living in my home country I would be a lot braver.

What a difficult situation. I don’t want anything I have said to have made you feel to blame in anyway. I am an adult now and I do forgive both of my parents and love them for who they are. But when I was younger and much less aware I was very affected, I made bad decisions based on this that have caused me trauma that I have to live with. I think you have to look at it as whole. We are two separate people in a relationship yes, but we come together to form an experience, a foundation for the child, a home. It is very difficult for a child to pull this experience into its parts. For along time my problem was just home, not my mum or not my dad just “it”, if that makes sense.

Oh I get that @Ohdostopwafflinggeremy (im not British either).

The best thing I’ve done is to go and see a lawyer to get some clarity on what I could or couldn’t do. And how they’re doing split would go re money.

And then spending quite a bit of time reviewing what help is available (UC etc….). When I actually looked, it was more than I thought it would be.

Fwiw, my dcs are young adults and at Uni.
dc1 spends very little time at home. But is always happy to go away with just me…..
dc2 is here more but he us autistic like dh and they have more in common.
So I can see where you’re coming from.

Another one not in my home country and also financially dependent on H. Well, so I thought! I also looked into UC and it looks like I will be fine/survive at least, once I'm out of this. It is scary and it is overwhelming but it can be done.

There must be some sort of benefit system or equivalent of Citizens Advice that you could look at @Ohdostopwafflinggeremy as a starting point?

One thing I've come to realise now though, is that if I just left and went into a rental, getting this house on the market and sold would likely be a very, very lengthy process. And I'd only get UC housing element for so long.

It would take H a while to process it all and accept it, then he would really struggle with getting the house tidy and presentable enough to even list and to then deal with estate agents etc would probably be extremely difficult! Then to actually pack up and move on top of that, considering the absolute hoard of stuff he has accumulated. And having seen how stressful H found it to clear and sell my late FIL's house I just can't see this happening without a lot of meltdowns.

So, I may need to be here in the house to facilitate all that to happen, declutter, organise everything and deal with EAs etc. Maybe we could do some form of nesting during this time.

I just feel im making such a huge mess of my life, my kids life. I hate that im in a situation that I dont feel in control. That someone else, dh, is causing so much angst and uncertainty in all our lives.
Realising im in this predicament now because of decisions I made in faith years ago.
Moving to dh's country so he could pursue his dream career and I could stay home with the kids was the best decision 20+ years ago. I used to consider myself so lucky to have the life I do, now i feel stupid that I was so naive.

I've spoken with the kids and they say they can tolerate dh so long as he goes back to work until they leave home.
I would most definitely prefer living in a little place by myself that the kids would visit, than living in our family home and them never coming back because of dh.