Giving up on Online Dating - is it me?

[Oldfailed]

Hello. I've posted here on this topic before. Divorced mother of 2, reasonably okay looking, professional career / decent income, own house in London. Kids are with me much of termtime but dad provides childcare when needed.

Have been on Bumble and Hinge for the past 8 to 9 months since my divorce (I filed- toxic, verbally abusive ex, hasn't worked in years). I wasn't prepared for my OLD experience in the least. Met several people - of course, many who matched didn't bother replying. Outcome - zilch. Except for 2 occasions, I was "rejected" by everyone I met. And those 2 exceptions led nowhere.

I have been clear about relationship goals on my profile - looking for steady dates / mid to long term relationship, not marriage, not ONS. The people I meet seem to me to be not in my league - in terms of career, education, conversation at least - and I am not trying to brag in any way here. I purposely don't match with very good looking men, knowing I probably won't be in their league! A couple of men dated a few times and then told me they had found someone else.

My confidence has taken a real battering. It's an effort to make time to meet and present myself without baggage and the stress of juggling work and home. I try hard to make decent conversation. I make it clear that, if things progress, it's easier for me to visit them at home rather than the other way around, at least during term time, since my children are mostly with me. I really wonder if this is the deal breaker. If not- it surely is me.

I have nearly stopped going on any dates now to avoid hurting myself further but the prospect of being alone is daunting. I miss having a man in my life, I miss sex, I feel envious of the seemingly happy couple friends I have, because I don't think I'm very different from the women in these couples - surely I deserve better outcomes? What makes me so unlikable? I have even wondered if I should ask these men for feedback - what is it that put them off - but I fear that may show me as very vulnerable (which I probably am).

Any suggestions? No time for group activities at the moment (as was suggested) and in any case these don't filter participants by dating intention. Are there any good singles / speed dating things people can recommend in London targeted at the 40 to 50 age group?

financial services - typo.

@Thingyfanding - intrigued to hear how you managed to screen all the men on OLD looking for casual sex/ONS. Every single conversation I have had as my last burst of OLD (mainly to amuse my now coupled up friends) seems to turn to sexting or close to it. The first date suggestions were also positioned as to allow going back to my or their place. No revealing photos or hint of casual in my profile. How does a woman in her 40s move beyond that?

@Thingyfanding which app did you use? Someone just recommended some sort of "open to date" button on LinkedIn to me. Haven't checked it out yet but sounded hilarious.

@occhiazzurri in solidarity. I also think the only collateral positive of my disastrous OLD forays is that my female friends feel grateful they are married to reasonable men, and that in itself is good enough, after they hear my experience.

I would be keen to hear if there are other apps which have worked for people outside bumble and hinge.

I know you didn't ask me, but I'd say that's exactly how you filter out the ones who treat women like pieces of meat (I don't mind casual sex, as long as I'm treated with respect - like a person). If they propose a first date in their place, start talking about sex too early, want everything on their terms, you cut the conversation. With practice, you will figure out in less than 10 messages if a guy is worth it, so it's not a big waste of time.

Hinge - I only caught a catfish 😂
Match - allows you more scope than Bumble to talk about yourself, what you do and don’t want . There will always be some who don’t bother with their profiles, don’t bother reading and just rely on looks - but at least there’s the opportunity to say and read something more meaningful.

@occhiazzurri @whatwouldlilacerullodo Exactly - it’s easy enough to work out imo.
The thing I found more of was divorced men looking to have more children or older men who had been very career focused, wanting to start a family and working out if I would be up for that. This was a couple of years ago when I was on the border of still being fertile. I know it sounds strange but it was a very different experience to the one I’d been hearing about on mumsnet,
I used bumble only.

I agree it’s fine even if you don’t want to date blue collar workers. Personally a degree isn’t necessary for me as one of the most intelligent and well-read men I’ve dated didn’t have a degree, but he worked in the civil service doing policy work and I felt we had a lot in common.

There are also potential issues with men who work in manual jobs such as wear and tear on their body leading to early retirement /unable to pitch in much at home etc

I spoke to one guy who was a construction worker and he texted me from the hospital once saying something had flew out and lodged in his eye. It was the second time it had happened that year apparently.

Men filter out women for all sorts of reasons far more superficial than what job we do, you don’t see them telling each other to “give more women a chance”.

So I don’t get why women do this to each other. You’re not being snobbish OP.

I don’t necessarily go for bankers etc and it’s not a hard and fast rule, but I typically prefer men with a degree in white collar jobs.

Maybe you’ve just been unfortunate, there’s not always a formula for success with these things tbh

I’m late 30s and I rarely got men trying to sext or mention sex. I was quick to inmatch the ones who did though.

Men asking for additional photos got unmatched too as they’re either doing it for their ego or because they’re not sure about me/ my looks.

eharmony feels very quiet with a lot of inactive profiles so I see why people don’t like it but I met a couple of decent men there.

However also saw some profiles of men who must be married. There was one where the man had changed his photo after matching with me , to one where he hid his face. Then another one who has listed his job where his name should go 🤣 some profiles didn’t even have a picture. Weird!

I found a lot of men on match dot com had a similar “must be married” vibe too. I may have just been unlucky with that but I didn’t meet anyone decent on there.

Across all the apps and dating sites there are so many married people on OLD it’s awful.

@Batelyboo - late 30s attracts a different crowd - more likely men in their 40s and 50s looking to have kids because the prioritised their career etc. So I can understand it is a different experience although my friends found boyfriends who were ultimately commitmentphobes prior to meeting current partners IRL.

@Thingyfanding - I understand that you can filter/unlatch and that leaves us with no options really. Just got a message from someone who had a half decent profile, no shirtless selfies, where his first message already included a reference about Sunday mornings in bed etc. End to my short burst of OLD.

Do you have a video chat before meeting up? I think that can help you (both) figure out if there’s something worth pursuing.

Nearly everyone looking for a relationship is using OLD, so there are nice people out there you just have to have a strategy that works so you don’t waste time unnecessarily.
Maybe it’s my age and the fact I have children already that made my experience very different but I decided that I would go in with a positive mindset and just have fun. I was very selective who I decided to spend my time with though and would speak and exchange quite a few messages before meeting. Anyone with too much self pity, a crazy ex, doesn’t see their children or only has them every other weekend was a massive turn off for me. I was seeking men who seemed kind, had female friends, were sociable with lots of interests and hobbies outside of football, golf, pub etc
Go for nerds basically! I don’t care about looks. I think people are way too hung up on appearance. As long as someone is clean and has good hygiene, I can overlook poor fashion sense and not traditional good looks.

@Thingyfanding - appreciate the perspective but I guess I am pretty conventional in the sense that I need to feel some physical attraction beyond good hygiene - I can’t say that I don’t care about looks (though not necessarily fashion sense). I think you have however nailed it - if you go for someone others don’t attractive and has very little other options, perhaps they are more
likely to commit.

As a big nerd I have already gone for more nerdy or even academically minded people but that’s not helped at all to get tired of sexual comments etc.

I don’t think the mindset is the issue here - I was just thinking of as you put it go out and have some fun meeting new people just as the OP did. It is just the sexual comments/approach has resulted in zero dates so far.

Remember you are seeking a the perfect partner, not the perfect profile.

Burned Haystack approach seeks the perfect dating profile, and I would suggest that those with the perfect profiles are probably players and know what works.

If it gets to the messaging stage then immediate sexual messages, it is fine to block, but at the same time if someone is safe with messaging don't block because they appear boring. Messaging is not a natural form of communication.

But if they're boring over text, in most of the times they're boring in person as well... (I don't agree all the very good profiles belong to players - some people are very good at comms. However, when a guy who is not a player has a good profile, you can bet he will find a partner almost immediately. That's why some apps allow you to filter for "new profiles").

I personally hate messaging over apps, and it takes two to tango, conversations can get very boring, but you also have to look at yourself, did you bother much with the conversation, do you just give one or two word replies and expect Lord Byron in response?

I don't think anyone bothers with messaging now, because it's a chore that never goes anywhere. Everyone just expects something magical to happen now.

And all I keep seeing here is that the "decent men (TM)" get snapped up quickly on OLD. Basically everyone is setting themselves up for disaster, by thinking that if the "New Here" badge isn't there they can't be "decent men (TM)".

The majority of people (male and female) simply don't have good profiles.

@occhiazzurri I agree that you have to be attracted but for me that builds over time, once I get to know someone.

Agree that no one bothers to message now - myself included. It makes things even harder.

Re the "all the good ones get snatched" narrative, I resisted that for a long time. I've been using OLD for 2 and a half years, met hundreds of men (not an exaggeration. Including all the dates, where nothing happened). After such intensive data collection, I changed my mind about the "economics" of it and the value society gives to men and women regarding relationships.

If a man is good looking with a good job, over 35, he will probably have a partner. Frequently more than one.

@NowStartingOver you have the right approach

@whatwouldlilacerullodo that is a significant investment of your time and I hope you have realised a solid RoI from it! I am time poor and increasingly the opportunity cost of time spent on a (probably useless, given historical stats) date is immense (spend more time with my children, read a good book, go for a walk). So much so that I can only put myself out there a couple of times a month.

It is depressing to read your data-backed conclusion, although I am sure it is accurate. What happened? Why is there this great imbalance!?

@whatwouldlilacerullodo - I think you have nailed it. The only thing I would add from experience and also shown by research/lots of books etc is that if for whatever reason such man finds himself single, he probably doesn’t need OLD if he is after a relationship - there are so many single women over age 35 that he can easily meet someone at work/through friends/hobbies etc.

High status single men aged 35+ are not the only men that should be considered boyfriend material though. Branching out to different professions (without needing to comprise on level of education), going for slightly younger men, compromising slightly on looks can all help.

All that being said, I completely agree with PP around decentering men in your life and taking a much more relaxed attitude to finding a partner. It always amazes me when women who have already married and had children seem to hunt for a boyfriend with more urgency and mania than single women in their mid-30s who don’t yet have children even though we’re the ones being fucked over by our biological clock and need to crack on.

@Oldfailed, well, there are lots of books and research about that. Women and men are valued diferently by society, and there are all sort of expectations (for a man, the most desirable trait is being rich, and for a woman is being beautiful). Also, it's easier for a woman to find a date (and possibly a ONS) in OLD than it's for men, but it's harder for a woman to find a relationship.

I think he have to approach the whole thing from a position of power - even though the scales are not in our favour, we can still choose what we want. If you have little time, focus on the immediate reward - have a first date on a place that you want to go and you've never been, for example (so if the date is bad, you gain something anyway). Meet people you find interesting, so at least you have a fun night. Have sex if you want to. Ask for the type of sex you like. Try to make the dating process fun for you, instead of focusing on the end goal.

That's why I can say I've had fun with OLD. I'm meeting lots of interesting people, having amazing sex, trying new things, travelling, etc. OLD is amazing for all that, even if finding a partner has proven... elusive.

And I agree with @occhiazzurri - is that was not enough, lots of men start looking for their next woman while still married, so if you don't want to date a married man, it gets even harder.

@Crushed23 I've been going out with men who are much younger than me, sometimes (only the ones who "like" me on the apps first). They treat me like a human being, they are super respectful, sex is amazing. If they want to have kids, then that's a problem (I'm 46 with teenager DCs and even if I could I wouldn't have more kids). But I think that's becoming an option for more and more women.

Since Covid WFH has now become the default for a lot of people, the concept of people meeting at work is now quite rare, indeed many of the singles events I've been to this has been the main area of contention.

I've noticed that if you pay higher ticket prices at singles events you get better people. With OLD because it is free you get anyone. Try not to go to the cheapest events as the ticket price does a lot to filter out people.

If there was an OLD where everyone had to pay that would be better.