Annulling marriage as spouse is trans?

[confusedpasty]

Hi everyone,

I got married 3 months ago. I have been with my now husband for 7 years and prior to the wedding, we honestly had a fantastic relationship. We also have a 14 month old boy. We are best friends and have shared everything together and talked about having more children after the wedding.

Intimacy has trailed off a bit since our baby was born, mostly on my part actually as I haven’t felt in the mood much, but I guess from his side too. Anyway, I thought this was just a phase due to our circumstances and was excited for the wedding.

Slight relevant background - my husband has always been more ‘feminine’ if you can call it that, as in interested in clothes and hair and underwear etc. No problem, loved him for who he was and we got on great.

Fast forward to after the wedding - no sex despite me trying and trying. 12 weeks have now passed since our wedding so I finally sat him down last night and asked what’s going on. He told me that he feels ashamed to admit it, but that deep down he feels he is transgender and his true feelings are that he identifies as a woman and that sex now feels disgusting to him as he’s not behaving like his true self?

Lots of crying and emotion followed - he begged me to support him and stay if he chooses to transition publicly, I feel that I cannot do this. I am torn. He has gone to stay with his mum for a few days whilst I process this.

I know this is a bit of a niche situation, but has anyone out there faced a similar situation? I am considering applying for an annulment, I think this would be fair on the grounds we haven’t consummated the marriage? Husband says he would contest this. I am so, so confused and haven’t yet told anyone in real life.

Selfish bastard. He has trapped you. Is he saying he didn’t know this about himself 3 months ago?? And suddenly he feels he is trans??

I completely accept that you define yourself by gender, just as I accept that some people believe they have a soul.

I do not think that you or anyone else should suffer discrimination because of your belief. However I will also defend my freedom to express the belief that gender identity is a rather sexist concept and Jesus was not literally the son of God.

Obviously trans people and Christians exist, and their existence is not dependent on my affirmation of their beliefs.

Nothing transphobic about saying a man who wears a skirt and calls himself Doris is still a man, not any type of woman!

I was responding to the comment that the child would have a second mother.
I disagree that having a trans parent is a hideous state of affairs. These are the kinds of comments I referred to as transphobic in my original comment, which has attracted so much excitement!

Have you ever met any children of transitioners? I have. Three of them, all female, all brought up in households where their fathers had transitioned later in life. Suki Morys, daughter of the famed Jan/James Morris has written about what a terrible, abusive parent her father was:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-11527279/Celebrated-writer-Jan-Morris-bully-hug-children-daughter-claims.html
I knew someone who went to school with Suki and whose mother knew her mother. My acquaintance and her mum were never in any doubt about the abuse of power going on in that household.

Many AGP fathers are narcissists and are jealous of their daughters' sex and resentful that the girls have what the father wants but can never have. One of my neighbours' fathers transitioned in his late 50s. He used to visit his daughter and steal her clothes. Now he's in his 80s, suffering from dementia and living in a care home. He had periods of distress when he woke up from a nap and couldn't understand why he was wearing a skirt and twinset. As a result he now wears men's trousers and other items of male clothing.

But of course, the experiences of women count for nothing. It's always got to be about the men and their feelings.

@Pupinskipops made a comment earlier that the OPs husband may not have being deceitful by not telling her before the marriage, that he just may not have been ready to “come out”.

id like to point out there’s a middle ground between “coming out” and marrying someone so deceitfully. He could just have stopped/paused the wedding citing general cold feet.

Father? You mean mother, right?

@confusedpasty

We are going to meet up on Wednesday so he can see son and when he is in bed, to discuss the options.

TBH I wouldn't meet him in the house. I'd insist on him seeing DS in a public place, like a park, where you can speak quietly as DS plays yet he will have to monitor his responses and behaviour. At home, it's likely you'll be subjected to a full blown emotional attack. You don't need that.

If that doesn't work I'd arrange for someone else to be there when he's visiting with DS and then stays for DS whilst the two of you speak elsewhere, out of the house. Again, so he has to monitor his behaviour.

Also, at this point, there is no need for him to be able to walk in the house without knocking. You may want to consider either changing the locks, putting a bolt on the doors, or leaving your key in the lock. Changing locks is 'iffy' for a jointly owned home. Personally I'm in the 'better to ask for forgiveness than permission' camp, but you judge for yourself. Bottom line is, you don't need to be home and calm and have him walk in the door unannounced.

I really hope he will agree annulment is the best way forward. It is so hurtful to even consider but I cannot see any other way forward.

Remember that he doesn't need to 'agree' to either a divorce or an annulment. Divorce is 'no fault' and provided you have proof, an annulment can't be contested either. Bottom line, he can't actually stop you from getting either.

Hopefully I can get some proper legal advice before then.

This is absolutely imperative. You need to hear from a solicitor that he won't be able to stop you, which is faster/more to your advantageous. And what you're looking at as far as any financial issues and a timeframe. And if you feel he's going to be 'obstreperous' as far as financial issues in order to delay proceedings, then ask the solicitor about 'bifurcating' a divorce. You can't bifurcate an annulment.

Knowledge IS power in your case. Because once you find out that he won't be able to stop you, then there's really no need for a discussion, is there? And why put yourself through you begging him to cooperate and him throwing every emotional blackmail there is at you. Instead it will be "I have taken legal advice and am filing for divorce/annulment. You will be hearing from my solicitor".

As far as his mother goes, sure she wants you to take him back. Because he and his 'transition' have just landed on her doorstep and she doesn't want to have to deal with it.

Listen, at this point I'd block them both from your phone and email. Set up a separate new email for him to use and tell him it's to communicate about DS only. It serves two purposes; it stops constant harangues because you'll only see his emails when you choose to rather than have your phone pinging constantly. Also, if he emails anything about his transition, you'll have the proof you need for an annulment.

What an utterly selfish man. I am so sorry @confusedpasty.

Not only does he deliberately deceive you into marrying him. He then uses emotional blackmail, even involving your child, to try persuade you to continue to follow his agenda, with no thought whatsoever for your feelings. What a manipulative individual he is.

OP, please ignore this load of old tosh. I have been where you are now, but had been married 20 years and DC were older. Let me tell you categorically, your new husband has lied to you deliberately about something fundamental to your marriage. You do NOT owe him anything, certainly not the sacrifice of your life at the altar of his self obsession. He’s known about this for years and lied to get what he wants. You have every right to put the interests of yourself and your child first. You are young enough to make a new start and will prosper. See a solicitor to find out the best course of action to protect your interests, be that divorce or annulment. Good luck to you

Ultimately I made the decision to stay married though on a friends basis as divorcing would have had a big hit on me at my age and didn’t want that to affect the kids. Not interested in another relationship (I’m done with men) and have managed to get along amicably so far though prepared to split if that doesn’t continue. I made my decision based on what suits me, not out of any obligation to husband, who is an adult and responsible for himself. You should do the same.

I highly recommend the transwidow threads as linked above. They were a lifeline for me and @TinselAngelis an absolute heroine.

I don’t deny their existence but I do think the OP’s husband played her and that’s not acceptable. You do agree she needs an annulment, I concur with that.

"He said he wouldn’t be open to annulment as he basically feels we should stick together for better or worse! But I hope he may be willing to talk again once the dust settles a little. I don’t see how we can come back from this"

Neither do I. Interesting stretch of the idea of 'sticking together for better or worse'. So he deceived you about his true nature (and to be scrupulously fair possibly himself, though I doubt it). Then went very quickly from crying and begging to emotional blackmail.

He sounds like a conflicted person who's prepared to sacrifice your wellbeing and contentment for his. It's a sad situation for all of you, but not one of your making OP. Don't be cajoled/chivvied/flattered/gaslit into going along with it.

Good to spot that! Just goes to show even @Pupinskipops isn’t immune to the contradictions and mind bending involved.

Pupinskipops · Today 14:37
A quick Google search reveals that in 2019 there were 212,000 same-sex families in the UK (and we can assume there are many more now), and that research published in the journal BMJ Global Health supports previous findings that children with same-sex parents fared as well as, if not better, than those with heterosexual parents.

I'm a lesbian and I say how dare you recruit homosexuals like me to support your argument that a) a transgender parent creates a same-sex household and b) that a family with a trans parent is likely to have the same outcome as a lesbian or gay household?

A household in which one parent has transitioned is not a same-sex household: it's still a heterosexual household, it's just that one of those parents is likely to have MH issues, ASD or AGP that leads them to identify as the opposite sex. We have yet to obtain the data on how well transgender parents perform. In the meantime please don't use homosexuals as your human shield.

OP, a friend of mine's ex-DH announced his transitioning on Facebook. Before he had told her, or their children.

Your DH OH is on an incredibly selfish path. Don't let him railroad you, or guilt you with "transphobia" nonsense. Get to a solicitor, and don't bother "hoping" that he will agree to an annulment, or whatever the solicitor says is in your best interest. Your OH is not the boss of you.

To my mind this isn’t about being necessarily trans. It’s about the husband changing something fundamentally about himself and which will change something about the ops life and relationship.

What if the DH had suddenly announced he was changing faith? What if he said he has felt a calling to this faith and this meant him living in a certain way but also it meant their child being brought up in that faith group. Added to this the husband demands that the OP adopts this faith too and follows its teachings. And if the op says no then the husband says op is phobic and teaching the child to hate.

It’s not about being trans or the trans debate. It’s about the husband making this change and demanding that the op and their child goes along with it.

Well, I agree that gender is a social construct and that I was assigned one birth with which I happen to be content, though I didn't check with WHO to reach that conclusion. It says so on my driving licence.

Would you think it more appropriate if I simply said I identify as a person? Happy with that as well, if you prefer...

I don't follow pap on Tiktok and Instagram so I can only guess what you mean by trad wives, but I am neither a wife nor, in my opinion, particularly trad. Sorry. 🤷🏼‍♀️

'Gender' doesn't exist. It just means 'personality'. You were not 'assigned' a personality at birth.

You don't need to 'identify' as anything. Stop using brainwashed cult terms.

There are countless accounts of people querying their sexuality without accepting that they might actually be gay until they have undergone marriage. Why would it be any different for people querying their gender?

With such hostility against transgender folk, particularly over the last few months, I can very easily see how a person might unwittingly suppress their suspicions until forced to confront them.

OP Brickjoker is entirely wrong in saying you are being selfish. Your husband lied to you and tricked you into marriage. There is no way he only just realised that he is trans. He didn't tell you before the wedding deliberately to try and trap you. Now that he thinks he has you trapped he refuses to consent to the annulment and is trying to guilt trip you into saying with him "for better or worse". This is not the behaviour of a decent person, he is a liar and a manipulator and all trust is broken. I'd go ahead with the annulment immediatly if I was you.

It sounds as if he's felt like this for a while, knew there'd be a high risk of you leaving, but doesn't want to lose the friendship you have. Peehaps he thought you'd find it harder to leave a marriage than your live-together relationship.

Without wishing to pry, how was the sexual side of the relationship before you married, who initiated more, and who wanted children? Just trying to gauge how long he's been feeling more male than female, if ever, in his past.

Also wondering if this has been a situation he's been working towards for a long while, not telling you because of the risk of losing you. Transworld is rather lonely, and it sounds like he wants his cake and eat it: to present as a trans 'woman', whilst having the security of a shared relationship for support and companionship (and maybe share girly things?).

If that is the case, it's rather manipulative and very unfair on you as it doesn't acknowledge - let alone respect - your needs.

Thank you. I actually have a friend whose husband dresses as a woman, (isn’t transitioning) and who posts pics of his alter ego social media. Obviously, it’s her marriage but it wouldn’t be me and I worry that her children will be bullied at school when other kids find their Dads account. Would this qualify as APG? And what’s the difference between this and cross dressing? Sorry for the questions I just want to understand this since my friend is living this.

You need to tell someone IRL, a friend or family member , and you need someone with you when you meet him.
He is being manipulative so you need someone who can be objective in the moment, and minimise the emotional blackmailing.
That's my practical response. On a personal level, I'd have probably gone nuclear by now! Reject an annulment, yeah right!

Because if someone who is in an opposite sex marriage who comes out as gay doesn’t demand that their spouse stays married to them.

A doctor will have observed your sex at birth. This cannot be changed, regardless of your level of contentment.

I am interested to know who you think does the gender assigning. If you don't agree with the WHO definition of gender, what do you think gender is?

Whether or not you identify as 'a person' is irrelevant to whether you are one, but I think 'being human' is more relevant to identity than sex. We are all a collection of personality traits and beliefs and I don't know why anyone would put themselves in in a gender box. More than anything I think this is just basic feminism, and I am baffled that people who describe themselves as progressive think otherwise.

If you are instead conflating sex and gender and arguing that sex is a social construct, I would direct you do the rest of the website. It's very informative on the biological consequences of being female.

I know a transwoman whose children call him Dad and who dresses neutral during contact time. He behaved pretty callously during the divorce, and has - as you would expect - reality defying beliefs, but they are now able to be cordial. I'm a bit concerned about @confusedpasty being left with the impression that this is not possible, when, after all, she has no choice but to somehow navigate this less than ideal situation.

A PP compared it to a spouse joining a religion, which is apt. It's important not to impose the religion on the child, whilst still teaching respect for diversity of religion.