I forgave her, perhaps too quick

[AnonymouseDad]

Hi,

I'm not a mum so I hope this is ok here. On other sites like redit all there seems to be is men saying kick her out to any affair post.

Not sure what advise I'm looking for, maybe just some outside perspective.

We've been married over 10 years. Together for 20. We have two amazing kids, 10 and 16.

We've had our ups and downs but through everything we've always been close. We talk about our days, what's going on in the world, our kids. Absolutely anything and everything except how we're feeling.

I've acknowledged that and other areas we failed in.

We have grown distant over the last while. Physically too. I'm much more of a physical person than she is. It's always been that way. She started to shrug off my touch or a hug like I was dirty. The more that happened the more it hurt so I stopped trying as much.

We stopped sleeping in the same bed. I snore quite loudly and have tried all sorts but nothings worked. She's a light sleeper and has a temper if disturbed so I started sleeping on the sofa so she could have a good nights sleep.
Sex was still there even with me sleeping on the sofa. But over time she withdrew more from that too. I would never complain or say it's something I need. To me sex should always be mutual.

She would say she had lost her confidence and needed space and her mental health wasn't good. Me touching her or trying to kiss was not helping. She asked me to give her space and let her come to me. We both agreed a marriage is about so much more than sex. So I gave her space and her initiating anything became less and less. When we did she would say she wanted to more but then we'd have the same conversation about space.

Back end of last year she became so much more distant and highly irritable.
She would snap at the smallest thing. No matter what I did it always seemed I was in the wrong.

We still had plenty of moments though where we would talk about everything.
And throughout I could always make her smile or laugh.

I know her mental health isn't great so I figured it was just a rough patch and tried to help as best as I could and give her the space she needs. I started to notice that if she went a few days not taking one of the tablets she takes for her mental health, she would be much more herself and happier. I suggested talking to the doctor and changing it.

Instead she just stopped taking it all together. For a few days she was fine but then slowly became even snappier. More on edge.

There was no chance in having a conversation about it.

Around that time last year I started to suspect there may be someone else but dismissed it.

A month or so back though I found a freshly used pregnancy test. As we've not had sex in a few months I knew there was someone else.

I thought about nothing else for quite a while. I needed to know who and how long. I desperately wanted to say something but didn't know how. I think I was scared to hear the truth.

I've always been a firm believer in cheating is the end. No exceptions.

But faced with reality I realised just how much I loved her and started to put myself in her shoes. I felt lonely but hadn't thought she felt the same.

I spent a lot of time thinking about how I can be better. I decided I wanted to fight for us.

Then a couple of weeks ago after a night out she told me she thinks we are done. We talked a lot and hugged a lot. I asked her about the test and she claimed it was an old one. I knew she was lying but there was a glimmer of hope that I was wrong.

I told her again a night later that I thought she was lying. I even said who I thought it was. A person who for months had loved every social media post of hers and just looked like a right smug bastard. He was someone she used to work with. I'd even tried to help him find a new job when he was made redundant. Never met him but took his number to a few contacts I new were looking for someone.

I told her how I felt and what she meant to me. I also told her how all I want is for her to be happy and if that truely means without me then I won't stand in her way.

We actually got along better after talking about us and we both went through all sorts of emotions.

We even spent a night just holding each other and kissing. Nothing further. It didn't feel right to do anything more than that.

There were also some lows. She wasn't coping well with the turmoil in emotion it seamed so when she said she needed a night away from me, the kids and the pets just to cry and let it all out and not be disturbed I agreed. I had a suspicion she wasn't going for that reason but I gave her my card to book a hotel with and left to pick up our son.

She was gone by the time I was back.

I felt awful but kept it together and got the kids sorted and once in bed I kept checking my phone. I could see it had been a while since she had looked at hers. The goodnight messages from the kids had gone unread and her activity on social media said it had been a couple of hours since she looked.

Then I got a phone call from her. I answered and there was just silence. I asked if everything was ok. Was she ok.
After a minute or so the sound came on and I could hear her breathing heavily. Then I heard a man groaning really loudly.

It felt like everything in me broke. There was no glimmer of hope to hold onto.

I said I could hear them three times. Then it muted. I couldn't make myself end the call. I couldn't move at all.

The call ended a few minutes after and I called back twice. She answered and I said I'd heard them.

Reluctantly she told me who it was and I was right about the person.

She came home. We talked through until the sun came up.

To start with she said that was the first time. I called BS and she then said there was one other time when she said she'd stayed over at a friends house after a night out. I still think there was more.

They'd been meeting up for a few months for drinks or coffees. Messaging for longer.

We thought her fitbit had made the call to start with as she didn't understand how it happened and how I could hear as her phone was across the room in her jacket pocket.

I found out that fitbits can't make calls and hers doesn't have a microphone. She said that when they were finished she looked for her phone but couldn't find it so they both looked. She told him to check her jacket again and he found it and handed it to her and thats when she saw it was on a call with me.

I firmly believe he made the call. He took her phone earlier and as I'm her emergancy contact he didn't have to unlock the phone to call me.

She said he told her he loves her so I think that was him trying to force me to leave her. She doesn't believe that but did doubt him enough to send him a message asking for him to tell her the truth.

We've spent a lot of time talking. About where we went wrong. How we feel. What we need to do, what we should do.

I told her that night that I forgave her. She was not expecting that at all knowing what my attitude towards affairs was.

We've arranged counselling to start in a couple of weeks time.

We're still living together and have actually gotten along really well.

Even the kids have noticed how much calmer she is.

I saw some of the messages on her phone the day after. I've never ever gone through her phone but I saw a message from him pop up and opened it. It was before she messaged about the truth of the call. He said he wanted to still be close but understood she needs time to sort her family out.
I looked at past messages and saw them talking about what they'd wanted to do to each other. I immediately told her what I'd done as I felt guilty and sick.

I've not demanded anything. I do not control her actions and never will. I have not said to never contact him again.

A few days ago she told me that she is cutting all contact with him and that it hurts because apart from anything they have been friends for a long time.

I do want to believe her, and I think I do but more and more I'm finding it hard to trust anything she says. I won't ask to see her phone as I do not want to be that person. I have said how I feel though.

She tells me she wants to try and fix us but it's scary to think of the work we need to do. She does say when she looks into the future she can't see life without me. And I can't see life without her. But is that as just friends, co-parents or together?

I'm worried I forgave too quick and didn't give myself time to think. I do love her and I do want to try and fix us.

Regardless of what happens I am using this pain to make myself a better me. I do more in the house. I have been taking better care of myself and have joined a gym so I have somewhere to vent physically.
I'm taking a step back from the evening work I do that was always a problem for us. While the money was nice and I love that I have something very cool to do and get paid. It built up to two or three nights a week. I've hired others to cover me and am taking a step back to only work on the events I want to.

So I know I'll come out of this better. I just want to know how to protect myself from it happening again without being controlling or an arsehole.

@LouiseMadetheBestBroccoliPasta thank you. That is good advice.

So far there has been nothing positive said and we've kind of avoided conversations about the affair for a couple of days.

So far its very much like we're back to our twenties with the same energy levels too.

Trust will come in time.

One extremely positive thing is I spoke about what has happened to my closest and oldest friend. She is also my wifes best friend and who introduced us in the first place. Her and her husband are closer than family to us and both extremely blunt. My wife didnt want them to know to start with out of fear of rejection but I've never kept anything from them. I know for absolute certain that more than anything she will make it a goal to keep my wife on the straight and narrow. With complete hard truths and not being afraid to ask anything. There is no way she will not convince my wife to kick any thought of the AP away. She already hates him. She will also be on the lookout for any signs of her slipping.

Op it’s a long scary and difficult road out of a marriage that was the one of dreams. She has literally kicked you overand over again. We all make excuses for people but at some stage you have to think if someone keeps torturing you, they’re not the person you married. You’re not with the love of your life anymore, you’re with someone else who is pretty much a stranger in her clothes. Your children will be happier with two separated happy parents than this current iteration of her and a paranoid, clingy, exhausted you.

I’ve just caught up with your updates. Does your wife realise yet how manipulative her AP was? The ‘poor me’ routine to get her sympathy and build intimacy and then the phone call to you to take the decision to end her marriage out of her hands?

Glad she is coming to her senses. But she needs to realise there is no room for more ‘mistakes’. This one chance is it. You are an incredibly kind and empathetic partner and she truly is lucky to have you.

OP, thanks for sharing so much of your journey. I do want to caution you, after reading all your posts. It feels that you have not found your anger yet. I was cheated on and it took me six months to find it, because I’m someone who has always rejected anger in myself- seen it as weakness or cruelty. But anger is essential for feeling and defining your boundaries and also for the recovery process from any terrible thing.

I think at some point, you will need to feel and confront incredible, righteous anger. That doesn’t mean you need to rage or abuse anyone or leave…. But it’s a feeling I think you need to go through.

I also told my spouse I forgave them on the first night. I was so out of touch with my outrage. I felt pain, bewilderment, all sorts of things by t genuinely believed the anger wasn’t there.

i am happy for you that things feel better, but I’d also suggest you be prepared for setbacks and powerful emotions arising later. You may even feel at these times that it’s you who is causing the problem- that she’s said sorry, you said you forgave, things have been better, and now this new reaction is on you. But it’s not- it’s a chain reaction of emotion that was set in motion with the affair. Your wife’s understanding of that and willingness to support you and listen if you have these delayed reactions will be very important. And I hope you can welcome these emotions and treat them as valid in yourself if they come.

Wishing you luck xxxxx

@financialcareerstuff thank you. That is all good advice.

I have felt anger. I've not directed it but I have used it. When my wife said she should leave. My anger came out as a calm "yes". And I calmly pointed out that was the consequence of her actions. But there was the anger, the refusal to bow down.

I've felt it many times and almost let it out a few but that once in that small way was enough for me.

We both do know that in the months ahead I will have doubts and I will have setbacks.

She knows I'm broken and being broken means I will not always manage to keep myself together or stable. There will be days when I will just stop and there will be days when I cant turn off the images.

Our next counselling session is focused on trauma response and how to manage it over time. I'm hoping that is how it sounds and helps give her the tools to understand how to navigate the downs as well as the ups. And I gain the tools needed to help myself and her too.

Good, I’m glad to hear that OP. I wish you the best of luck xx

@OchreRaven thank you.

I don't know yet if she sees just how manipulative her AP was. The counsellor helped bring her in that direction enough that she cut all contact.

Our friend. My oldest and closest friend who is also my wifes best friend has already said she will make her see who he really was. And shes a force not to be reckoned with. She is also someone whose opinions and advise we both trust.

Several times now my wife has stated how lucky she is to have me. And last night she said I'm stuck with her for all time if I'll have her.

She has also said how she cannot understand why I would choose to make myself vulnerable for her.

She has said she knows if she breaks me again there is no coming back.

I think having that realisation of not just what it means family wise that she will miss but also everything I do and am that she will miss.

We have made several promises to each other over the last few days that I aim to keep.
Just little things for now that we will do each day. Start the days off looking at what's positive and with a hug.
Doing all the housework together and making it fun like we used to. Silly things like throwing the dishes across the kitchen for me to catch and put away and if one breaks it breaks. The kids love that too as its like a circus act.
End each night together just lying down and talking.
Be open about what we are feeling even if its not a good feeling. We are not allowing each other to say I'm fine or its nothing. Just honesty.
Watch TV from the same sofa and not sit separately any more.
Explore new things together like hobbies that are just for us individually. That one is mainly for her. She needs a hobby thats good for her and certainly one thats less destructive than her last hobby 😝

The bigger promises can follow when we are on steadier ground.

She has also promised to work towards earning back my trust.

@AnonymouseDad Im really happy for you that you are seeing a positive change, which is what you deserve. Sounds like you have a lot worth saving and I commend you for trying.

What does regaining your trust look like? Has she willingly given up her privacy and been open with her phone and communication with him? Have you seen the message she sent cutting off contact or the messages she’s sent since you found out about the affair?

Or do you not feel like you need to see these because you trust her enough to believe what she has told you?

Yet here you are still putting all the blame on him.

@OchreRaven

I've given a lot of thought over that. And while looking at her phone would seam to be the simple option. The truth is there are many other ways she has available to communicate if that is what she wants to do.

I didn't see the message ending contact. And I didnt ask to be part of it. We did joke about her meeting him in a coffee shop with me there.

I won't ask to check her phone or anything else. I trust she knows that the chance we are building will be gone. I know she was spooked when this first came out that without looking at her phone I knew who he was despite never having met him and her not mentioning his name for months.

I think there is no illusion that she will be able to keep anything like that a secret for long again. Especially with our friend now involved.

Thats also given her more to lose because she is my wifes best friend and who introduced us. But she is also my oldest friend. We've been a big part of each other's lives since we were two years old and think of each other as family.

I absolutly trust her to ask the hard questions and call out any sign of decipt. My wife does too.

What are the steps of earning back my trust? Sticking to the little promises we've made to each other is a start. Knowing I will be suspicious for quite some time over all work outings and everything she says. She went to one last night after work and showed me a picture of them all in a restaurant. I didnt ask for proof. She just knew it would settle my mind.

She knows the easy option is to just tell me if she has feelings about getting back in contact. That way we can talk about it and if we need to we can end as friends still. And above all even when we were at our worst. We were still really good friends. That I do trust is important to her.

I guess it comes down to while I can't trust her word at the moment. I do have to trust the consequences of breaking my faith in us. And trust that she knows that. And I do know that those consequences are clearly burnt in now.

@Blades2

No not all the blame. It does take two and I am well aware of that.

But I have seen the manipulation evident when it started and her initial friendly rejections. He became depressed in his messages and put a lot of subtle guilt onto her knowing full well how kindly she treated people in need. He also knew we were at a low point in our marriage and how she suffered from depression as they had been friendly co workers for several years.

Looking back with the help of a neutral party it is clear manipulation over months. She became responsible for him "I have no one but you to talk with and I'm not worthy of you caring" messages.

So while she is also to blame for when it slipped into an affair. He used every tool he had to needle his way in.

When I first found out I only blamed her. As the full history came out I realised how insidious he is. And then he used their sex to try and make me leave her so he could have her all to himself.

That is when he made a mistake. I am not someone to respond well to manipulation. I do not ever let others make my mind up for me or think they can force me into a desicion.

So yes. There is a large portion of blame he takes. My wife though is not assigning any blame anywhere but herself. She knows it was still a choice.

I am glad for where we are now. If we can turn this nightmare into something positive and use it to make us stronger eventually I can rest easy that I have made the best choice for me and for us.

OP
Name changed for this.
I did what your wife has done (brief episode od about 4 weeks (but only slept once together and confessed straight after) of cheating with a person who was previously a friend but who came to have strong feelings for me) about 7 years ago. It exploded my marriage. In fact, I thought it was unforgivable therefore it was a coward's way out of the marriage for me.

I was deeply unhappy in my 18 year relationship due to many dysfunctional behaviours on both sides which had prevented good communication.

I was lonely, very tired from overfunctioning and not looking after myself due to work and childcare and lack of any regular family support and felt sexually unsatisfied.

After confessing I was surprised to discover neither of us actually wanted to end the marriage as I had naively presumed in the affair fog.

I took full responsibility for the contributions I had made to our dysfunctions by having a lot of therapy and researching infidelity and relationships over years and years. I changed myself in many ways and I have received a lot of recognition from him on the changes I made.

We are now in a much better place and still together. There are deep scars, moments when memories trigger and insecurities. However, on the whole it has been a huge growth experience for me, I do believe for him as well.

He has also recognised where he was critical, closed, inattentive and selfish in certain areas.

I take a more positive view of these events these days. With the correct approach (not sweeping things under the carpet) they can actually be transformative.

What's clear is prior to the area things were rotten anyway. So this event brings many things to light and whether you decide to split or not, that can only be a good thing.

@FurryPupUnderTheBed thank you so much for posting that. I was feeling really insecure this morning.

Really intrusive thoughts.

Your message has helped a lot with that and its good to see it from the other perspective.

My wife has taken full responsibility for the affair.

We both take responsibility for where our marriage was before the affair. And together we are both working on ourselves and helping each other.

I hope your marriage continues to grow. This gives me hope.

If you both love each other, you will get through. It really is that straight 4ward. Talk it out, always.

I thought I'd drop in an update.

Everything is going well. Really well!

There has been zero contact.

We've been away on a dream holiday with the kids and had a great time. We talk a lot more about us. We have plans for the future and we've started a small company together too.

We take one day a week as an us day while the kids are at school. We've both taken a day off work each week to have that time for us.

Every day we hug and kiss.

The kids have noticed a big difference and are happier too.

We even went away with our best friends. The ones who my wife didnt want to know about the affair out of fear of losing them. Their bond still holds just as strong and nothing has changed there at all.

We are currently planning Christmas and are both looking forward to it as last year's was just off but now I know why.

There is still some way to go. Like my wife hasn't been out with her friends without me since D day. She worries that I dont trust her I think so has taken herself out of socialising without realising it. We've talked about that but I think its subconscious. I do trust her not to make the same mistakes again. But even little things like when shes on lunch at work she calls to say where she is and with who or asks me to meet her for lunch. It's almost like her working hard to regain the trust is at a detriment to herself.

Life is good. And long may it continue.

That's lovely, OP, I'm so happy for you that it's going so well. I just knocked on wood that what happened is a painful chapter that is now ended, and that you will have many many more happy and loving chapters ahead of you, the both of you.

edited ;) hadn’t read all the thread !

Not going out with her friends for months isn’t great. It sounds more like she doesn’t trust herself. It’s nice things have improved but if she won’t live a normal life and is tip toeing around the relationship then it feels a bit fragile.

So happy for you OP. Same with me and my husband, and it’s been. almost 3 years now. There are rocky patches of course, but don’t listen to people who say cheaters never change.
People are far more complex than that, and as long as you both realise the fragility of what you could have lost and keep working on things every day, theres every chance you will come out stronger from this.

This is great to hear OP. I remember the thread and what came across was magnanimity on your part throughout. Enjoy the time with your family. Must appreciate everything much more. Really happy for you. 🥰

I agree. To a point.
It doesn't feel fragile in any other way. One thing I am relieved about is we can still disagree or even argue without her being cautious or agreeing with me just because.

I said to her right at the beginning of this journey that at no time would I ever use the affair or throw it in her face to get my way or for any reason at all. We can talk about it but I won't use it as a tool. And in that way it is nice that we are strong enough to argue and disagree and then figure out what the best course of action is.

It really is just the seeing her friends thats not happening without me included.

We will get there though.

Thank you. We certainly appreciate things more. My wife was saying that some of the little things I did that during the affair she found made her angry she actually loves and appreciates. Like how I find humour in any situation or can do something really silly and laugh at myself and make sure everyone knows what i did so they can have a laugh too. She thinks she was looking for reasons subconsciously to be angry with me but said that had we split she would have missed those things the most.
It was actually one of those silly moments, a propper scripted sitcom moment, that happened to me that brought home what she was losing.
So we make sure to appreciate everything. And especially the children. The time we have together as a family. We had an amazing holiday and had some truly spectacular moments. Right now, we are planning for Christmas and looking forward to every part of it.
Looking back with hindsight. It is all those moments when I didnt understand the hostility where it was really just using hostility to mask the guilt or make it easier to accept at the time. The fact that that is recognised now and accepted really helps. There is no blame from her just acceptance and regret.

We even had a conversation about her not seeing her friends or going out herself anymore. We talked about it and i asked if she was worried that I would worry. She did deny that and passed it off as just busy and not wanting to miss anything. I had a moment when I realised I do trust her and told her so. She went very quiet and then said thank you and looked like a huge weight had lifted.

Appreciate everything. Make sure you take advantage of every moment to make it the best it can be and do not hold onto anger or hate. It will not aid you.

It’s almost like her hard work regaining my trust, but at a detriment to herself.
life is good.

if your wife is isolating herself from her friend group, no, life is not good.

@AnonymouseDad "It was actually one of those silly moments, a propper scripted sitcom moment, that happened to me that brought home what she was losing."

I remember that, how she laughed and cried and then laughed some more. It was lovely to read :)

"Looking back with hindsight. It is all those moments when I didnt understand the hostility where it was really just using hostility to mask the guilt or make it easier to accept at the time. The fact that that is recognised now and accepted really helps."

This is an essential part of The Script of cheaters, that they rewrite history to assuage their guilt. They make the betrayed spouse out to be a demon, to get rid of the painful cognitive dissionance caused by treating your spouse so cruelly. This rewriting, and the unjustified hostility, it's one of the many mind-bending aspects of infidelity, and one that really shakes less self-confident betrayed spouses, who wonder whether it's true that they're monsters. Luckily, you had a healthy level of self-respect and self-worth and were able to withstand it and keep your head.

I'm very pleased for you and your wife that it's going so well!

Maybe you can occasionally pop in on infidelity threads, especially from male OPs, as a counter voice to the "be a real man" alpha nonsense that you also experienced on this thread. Men need, in fact the whole world needs, to hear more voices like yours.

@LouiseMadetheBestBroccoliPasta thank you. I think i will do just that.

I've never agreed with the "be a man" or the alpha male stuff. Had I, I would be alone, angry and bitter I think.

I read a lot about what should be and what has to happen. I got told a lot by people what I needed to do for myself.

The strangest was about anger. Let the anger come out and such. I felt angry at times but I chose not to direct that anger at my wife or family.

The pick me dance was another wierd thing that came up again and again. I lived for my family and didn't betray who I am or change anything drastic.

I'm not a big follower of conventions and blindly following rules that others set on how situations need to be handled.

For a long time I've worked in a field that has a thousand solutions to get the same end result based entirely off how you want to do it and what suits you best. So I do things my way and take the gist of new ideas from others but use them within my preferred way of working. Its also a field of work that has some huge global sized egos that I need to listen to me and understand that I am in control. And on top of that is the pressure. If I fail or there is a technical problem it needs fixing fast and calmly with the full knowledge that if its not working again thousands of people will be let down and your reputation in the industry takes a nose dive. I guess what I'm saying is it helped me mentally deal with everything and remain calm, focused and certain that my way is what is best for me.

I do appreciate the recognition you give. Thank you.