I forgave her, perhaps too quick

[AnonymouseDad]

Hi,

I'm not a mum so I hope this is ok here. On other sites like redit all there seems to be is men saying kick her out to any affair post.

Not sure what advise I'm looking for, maybe just some outside perspective.

We've been married over 10 years. Together for 20. We have two amazing kids, 10 and 16.

We've had our ups and downs but through everything we've always been close. We talk about our days, what's going on in the world, our kids. Absolutely anything and everything except how we're feeling.

I've acknowledged that and other areas we failed in.

We have grown distant over the last while. Physically too. I'm much more of a physical person than she is. It's always been that way. She started to shrug off my touch or a hug like I was dirty. The more that happened the more it hurt so I stopped trying as much.

We stopped sleeping in the same bed. I snore quite loudly and have tried all sorts but nothings worked. She's a light sleeper and has a temper if disturbed so I started sleeping on the sofa so she could have a good nights sleep.
Sex was still there even with me sleeping on the sofa. But over time she withdrew more from that too. I would never complain or say it's something I need. To me sex should always be mutual.

She would say she had lost her confidence and needed space and her mental health wasn't good. Me touching her or trying to kiss was not helping. She asked me to give her space and let her come to me. We both agreed a marriage is about so much more than sex. So I gave her space and her initiating anything became less and less. When we did she would say she wanted to more but then we'd have the same conversation about space.

Back end of last year she became so much more distant and highly irritable.
She would snap at the smallest thing. No matter what I did it always seemed I was in the wrong.

We still had plenty of moments though where we would talk about everything.
And throughout I could always make her smile or laugh.

I know her mental health isn't great so I figured it was just a rough patch and tried to help as best as I could and give her the space she needs. I started to notice that if she went a few days not taking one of the tablets she takes for her mental health, she would be much more herself and happier. I suggested talking to the doctor and changing it.

Instead she just stopped taking it all together. For a few days she was fine but then slowly became even snappier. More on edge.

There was no chance in having a conversation about it.

Around that time last year I started to suspect there may be someone else but dismissed it.

A month or so back though I found a freshly used pregnancy test. As we've not had sex in a few months I knew there was someone else.

I thought about nothing else for quite a while. I needed to know who and how long. I desperately wanted to say something but didn't know how. I think I was scared to hear the truth.

I've always been a firm believer in cheating is the end. No exceptions.

But faced with reality I realised just how much I loved her and started to put myself in her shoes. I felt lonely but hadn't thought she felt the same.

I spent a lot of time thinking about how I can be better. I decided I wanted to fight for us.

Then a couple of weeks ago after a night out she told me she thinks we are done. We talked a lot and hugged a lot. I asked her about the test and she claimed it was an old one. I knew she was lying but there was a glimmer of hope that I was wrong.

I told her again a night later that I thought she was lying. I even said who I thought it was. A person who for months had loved every social media post of hers and just looked like a right smug bastard. He was someone she used to work with. I'd even tried to help him find a new job when he was made redundant. Never met him but took his number to a few contacts I new were looking for someone.

I told her how I felt and what she meant to me. I also told her how all I want is for her to be happy and if that truely means without me then I won't stand in her way.

We actually got along better after talking about us and we both went through all sorts of emotions.

We even spent a night just holding each other and kissing. Nothing further. It didn't feel right to do anything more than that.

There were also some lows. She wasn't coping well with the turmoil in emotion it seamed so when she said she needed a night away from me, the kids and the pets just to cry and let it all out and not be disturbed I agreed. I had a suspicion she wasn't going for that reason but I gave her my card to book a hotel with and left to pick up our son.

She was gone by the time I was back.

I felt awful but kept it together and got the kids sorted and once in bed I kept checking my phone. I could see it had been a while since she had looked at hers. The goodnight messages from the kids had gone unread and her activity on social media said it had been a couple of hours since she looked.

Then I got a phone call from her. I answered and there was just silence. I asked if everything was ok. Was she ok.
After a minute or so the sound came on and I could hear her breathing heavily. Then I heard a man groaning really loudly.

It felt like everything in me broke. There was no glimmer of hope to hold onto.

I said I could hear them three times. Then it muted. I couldn't make myself end the call. I couldn't move at all.

The call ended a few minutes after and I called back twice. She answered and I said I'd heard them.

Reluctantly she told me who it was and I was right about the person.

She came home. We talked through until the sun came up.

To start with she said that was the first time. I called BS and she then said there was one other time when she said she'd stayed over at a friends house after a night out. I still think there was more.

They'd been meeting up for a few months for drinks or coffees. Messaging for longer.

We thought her fitbit had made the call to start with as she didn't understand how it happened and how I could hear as her phone was across the room in her jacket pocket.

I found out that fitbits can't make calls and hers doesn't have a microphone. She said that when they were finished she looked for her phone but couldn't find it so they both looked. She told him to check her jacket again and he found it and handed it to her and thats when she saw it was on a call with me.

I firmly believe he made the call. He took her phone earlier and as I'm her emergancy contact he didn't have to unlock the phone to call me.

She said he told her he loves her so I think that was him trying to force me to leave her. She doesn't believe that but did doubt him enough to send him a message asking for him to tell her the truth.

We've spent a lot of time talking. About where we went wrong. How we feel. What we need to do, what we should do.

I told her that night that I forgave her. She was not expecting that at all knowing what my attitude towards affairs was.

We've arranged counselling to start in a couple of weeks time.

We're still living together and have actually gotten along really well.

Even the kids have noticed how much calmer she is.

I saw some of the messages on her phone the day after. I've never ever gone through her phone but I saw a message from him pop up and opened it. It was before she messaged about the truth of the call. He said he wanted to still be close but understood she needs time to sort her family out.
I looked at past messages and saw them talking about what they'd wanted to do to each other. I immediately told her what I'd done as I felt guilty and sick.

I've not demanded anything. I do not control her actions and never will. I have not said to never contact him again.

A few days ago she told me that she is cutting all contact with him and that it hurts because apart from anything they have been friends for a long time.

I do want to believe her, and I think I do but more and more I'm finding it hard to trust anything she says. I won't ask to see her phone as I do not want to be that person. I have said how I feel though.

She tells me she wants to try and fix us but it's scary to think of the work we need to do. She does say when she looks into the future she can't see life without me. And I can't see life without her. But is that as just friends, co-parents or together?

I'm worried I forgave too quick and didn't give myself time to think. I do love her and I do want to try and fix us.

Regardless of what happens I am using this pain to make myself a better me. I do more in the house. I have been taking better care of myself and have joined a gym so I have somewhere to vent physically.
I'm taking a step back from the evening work I do that was always a problem for us. While the money was nice and I love that I have something very cool to do and get paid. It built up to two or three nights a week. I've hired others to cover me and am taking a step back to only work on the events I want to.

So I know I'll come out of this better. I just want to know how to protect myself from it happening again without being controlling or an arsehole.

My anger wasn't at all directed at him until I found out he made that call. And the only reason I'm angry at him is because he made me listen. He tried to manipulate me into leaving. He tried to force a situation where I'm not about to read my kids bedtime stories. And he took her choice in how to tell me away.

Before I found out he made the call. I had no feelings at all towards him.

I also had and would never feel anger towards my wife. Yes she did an incredibly hurtful and selfish thing. She broke my heart and trust.
But I know fully it was not done to hurt me. She did it for her. To have something exciting. And while thats no excuse. I know she didnt set out to cause me pain. I think she deluded herself into thinking I didnt care enough about her to be hurt.

I second this. It's a pro-reconciliation site, it was set up by a couple where one of them cheated and they managed to do the hard work to reconcile. But the veterans there are also very clear that reconciliation is extremely hard and painful and its success depends very much on the cheater doing 95% of the work needed.

She should start with individual counseling, because the problem here is not the marriage, it's that she has something broken in her that made her cheat. Why did she do something so dishonourable, something so deeply unkind to her loving partner? She needs to admit to and take full accountability for her choices.

And she is still lying her cheating head off to you. She claims that the encounter you heard was only the second time?! What rubbish! This affair has been going on for quite a while.

On SI, you will find practical advice on how to deal with your wife's infidelity and what you can do to encourage reconciliation. One is that she needs to come clean with you, provide you with a timeline of exactly when the affair started, how often they had sex, etc. This is NOT the time to be polite or considerate or avoid talking about how you're feeling. A marriage cannot be happy if it is built on massive lies, deception, and betrayal.

By the way, the affair probably started when this started happening: "She started to shrug off my touch or a hug like I was dirty." Think back to when this started.

Another thing you should do is prepare yourself to divorce. That's not giving up on the marriage, or showing lack of commitment. It is self-protection, and it is dignified. It will also show your wife what she has to lose. It sounds like she has a lot to lose.

Unlike a lot of cheater men, cheater women often form an emotional bond with their AP, it's not just sex. It's good that your wife is looking for therapy but you must prepare yourself for a lot more tricky behaviour from her (including continuing the affair, or meeting up with AP for "closure" where they have sex again and the affair starts up again). You must inform yourself, and protect yourself.

Nope. Not contradicting at all.
Forgiveness was for me. If I didn't forgive her I'd be holding onto anger or resentment instead. And with those nothing good can come from this.
The trust has gone for now. Thats not to say it cant be rebuilt over time. And to have that time there must be forgiveness.

Mainly to vent a bit. What I've found though is very cathartic. By replying to comments I'm able to figure out my thoughts and strengthen my conviction to try and rebuild our relationship over time. Who knows. I may be making another post in the future saying you all were right and I should have just left. Or I may be writing one in several years time saying I was right to take the hard path.

Please have some respect for yourself and leave her. She is absolutely disgusting.

you've even said you sleep in separate beds and don't have sex anymore... what are you even fighting for?

You sound like a good guy. I’m sorry you’re going through this.

Fabulous advice from @OchreRaven.

I also think marriages can survive infidelity but it is slow work and requires great and ongoing commitment, particularly from the one who was unfaithful.

You can’t rush this. You can think you forgive your wife now but forgiving is not forgetting and trust can only be rebuilt slowly. So you may find 1-2 years from now that you thought you could get over this but you can’t.

It really does sound like she found lots of different ways to push you away over the years. And for all that sex is not the only important connection in a marriage, for most of us it is what distinguishes our connection with our partner from the connection we have with anyone else and it is an important part of marriage.

After all, she stopped sleeping with you and I think that made it easier for her to take the step of sleeping with another man - because a fundamental cornerstone of intimacy in your relationship had gone.

Give yourself time. Don’t expect to heal all at once. Don’t expect to forgive, forget and trust again all at once - you can’t and it won’t be real. Only time and deep, ongoing work can fix this and even then it might not. But look after yourself in this process.

I cannot believe you are openly letting this woman take you for an absolute ride. She has annihilated respect, boundaries and any sort of self worth for both herself and you. How can you look at her the same hearing what you heard on that phone call with a woman who made VOWS to be faithful and loyal to you?

There is empathetic and there is just downright naive. You need to cut your losses and walk away from her and show her that you will not be messed around and just as you want the best for her even after everything she has done to you, you should want the BEST for yourself and this my friend, is not the best for you.

I am actually gobsmacked at how understanding you are being to all of this, surely if you loved her truly and deeply, knowing she was with another fella would absolutely crush you and it seems to have done the opposite which is rather concerning.

You are looking after the kids whilst she is out getting seen to in hotels with strange men that she used to work with and you are willing to give this conniving character your time, resources and understanding?

Please don’t let this woman take you for a fool.

Shocked to read this. I feel for you. So, she went to hotel room paid for by you and slept with someone else. Counselling will help you go through the motions and help you to move forward in a healthier way. Personally I think if you love someone, you don’t do that, ever. Look after yourself.

With respect OP you have no evidence he made the call, only her word, and that's not exactly worth a lot is it.

You’re being amazing, strong and perceptive trying to make it work. It’s easier to walk away but you know the reality wouldn’t be better for you, the kids or their mum. I’m in a similar quandary after years of horrible behaviour but no affair.
Being joint parents changes everything - you’re tied for life whatever you do, so you’re right to push for the effort to fix this. It’s medium term pain for long term gain.
But yes, she’s hanging on by a thread and if she screws you over again then she’s out!

For gawd sake stop playing the bloody pick me dance! All these deep and meaningful talks where she gets to shift herself to victim and you plead for her. All this talk of ‘forgiveness’ and how you’re not angry with her.

If you want reconciliation you’re not helping yourself, you’re allowing her to naval gaze and continue to be as selfish and entitled as she undoubtedly is.

Forgiveness is overrated: ‘acceptance it happened’ at most and a willingness to move on is all you should offer. SHE should be doing the heavy lifting. SHE should be coming to you with ways of fixing this not more chat about HER!

FWIW I am reconciled, I know this path, but I did not and would not allow my husband to play some kind of victim and my anger at what happened was entirely justified because whatever his ‘problems’ were - and believe you and me at the time there were MANY - our children and I should not have been the collateral damage to him imploding!

She needs to grow up, shape up or she ships out and you need to stop being so bloody empathic and compassionate.

I do say this gently, but this model doesn’t work in the long run!

SURVIVING INFIDELITY site is your friend!!!!! Amazing male posters and mods on there who will tell you exactly the same as me!

This is madness. You need therapy to accept what’s happened. It’s terribly sad op. But she has treated you really badly. This isn’t love. Accept. Be sad. Move on. Look forward. You will be happier without her in the end. Promise.

I didn't pay for her to sleep with someone else.
And I'm not bipolar or ill.

She told me she needed a night by herself and I wanted to believe that so I offered to pay for a hotel room so she could be by herself.

What she actually did was go to his place.

What I am is calm. I always try to think things through and only act or say something when its what I actually meen.

I'm not doing the pick me dance or anything along those lines. I will use the pain to kick me into self improvement and that benefits me if she stays or goes.

Even this morning I said to her that everything is her choice. She can go be with him. Be by herself or stay but if she chooses to stay then she needs to make choices that make me want to make this work.

I've accepted that I cant change what happened. I cant control her. I can control me and make sure im there for the kids. Ive accepted that she and I might not work ever again and I know I can support the kids and myself and we can co parent from separate houses.

Whatever happens I'm concentrating on me and the kids. Its her choice if she wants to stay or not and if she does stay and the trust is broken again I know I'll be fine on my own with the kids.

Even this morning I said to her that everything is her choice. She can go be with him.

What about you? What do you want? Why is everything about her choices and not yours?

Thank you.

I'll be looking at that site today as many have suggested.

I've been clear with her that while we had our issues that does not excuse what she did. Or the pain it caused or the lack of thought to our children.

I'm certainly not doing the pick me dance. She knows she can go off to him if thats what she wants. What I will do is use this to make myself a better me. All those things I've put off like joining a gym or being more proactive. I am doing for myself so that whatever happens I'll come out a better person.

She's not playing the victim. I looked back on what was wrong because if the marriage was perfect then this wouldn't have happened.
I needed to understand what she was going through that lead to this.

What I have seen since that day is just anguish and shame from her.

Beyond everything else. She is always the person I want to talk with about anything and im that for her. At the moment im treating her exactly the same as I would a friend in pain.

And that does meen talking about how shes feeling which is the one thing we never did a lot of. We have talked and she knows just how much pain she caused.

I know I'll be ok with or without her. Its her choice if she wants to stay. She knows I'll be ok without her too. I've said many times I'm not standing in her way to leave.

There's no financial reason to stay. We both earn enough to happily support ourselves separately. We have plenty of savings and either can move out without it impacting anything.

The forgiveness was mainly for me. I'm not an angry person and I don't hold onto resentment.
It wont change what's happened and it wont make me a better person or keep me being a good dad.

The thing I've found a lot of is people thinking me weak. Thats not how anyone's ever described me. To me to be weak right now would be to walk away or tell her to leave.

What I do want though is to not lose her as a friend for now and hopefully find that we can rekindle what we had because its always been us.

I am glad to hear you reconciled. That does give me hope. I also get hope from those who moved on and were happy too.

I understand, it really is shocking. Sorry to hear that then my first reply is my opinion. You sound like a good person. Don’t be second best. I wish you luck and yes, children first always. Make that clear to her and what it would do to your children if she continues this way. All the best.

@AnonymouseDad "I have seen since that day is just anguish and shame from her."

That's a good start. But at this stage, what you're seeing is not true remorse, it is regret that she got caught. True remorse will only come much later, when she has done the work to understand WHY she cheated. She needs to do that with an individual therapist.

The fact that she feels shame is also something that she should tackle with the therapist. I suspect the shame isn't coming from sadness and grief that she's hurt you, it's coming from the fact that her need for validation or whatever drove her decision to cheat - her internal weakness - has been exposed to the cold light of day. She needs to understand why she feels shame.

in the next post, I will provide a very thoughtful post by an OP on SI called DaddyDom. He cheated on his wife. It's very long but it will give you a good insight into the cheater's mind. It's from the area on SI called Wayward Side, where you can read what cheaters say.

DaddyDom on SI (edited for wordiness):

“I've spent the past several years "spinning", having all the right information but unable to process it in a way that would allow me to heal and move forward. This also had the added effect of continuing to harm my spouse and others in my life. I made some realizations along the way that I hope will help others, if even in some small way, so I am sharing these things here. Please take whatever works for you.

When I had the affair, I betrayed my wife. She realized that I was not the person she once knew. In fact, for the first time in our relationship she saw me for who I truly was, and that was not someone worthy of, nor safe enough for, a relationship. She was now changed as well, from the trauma I inflicted upon her entire paradigm of what truth, love, loyalty and honesty are. Sadly, she now doubted who everyone in her world really was, including herself. I quite literally destroyed our marriage and our entire relationship along with it. I fought this concept like all hell. I thought she really still loved me and that everything was going to be okay once some time had passed. I thought what I did was forgivable on some level. I was wrong. I had to accept that what I did was not only unforgivable, it was also permanent, and real.

I spent the next several years refusing to face that truth. Somehow I felt entitled to be forgiven. I was sorry for her, yes, but I was more sorry for myself. And when you are busy feeling sorry for yourself, it is impossible to truly be sorry for anyone else. So even though I was there with her 24/7, she was utterly and totally alone, because the only person I was capable of seeing was myself.

I had to learn to accept my choice to betray my wife. I had betrayed my wife. I had betrayed my family and most everyone I knew. I had made that choice and acted on it. I did what I did on purpose, and absolutely knew what the consequences would be. When it came time to face those consequences however, I refused to accept them. I felt so damn sorry for myself that I did to myself exactly the same things that I did to my wife during the affair. I lied to myself, I gaslighted myself, I tried to bargain with myself, anything, everything, to make myself feel better, because facing the reality of what I had done was simply too painful to feel. I had spent most of my life avoiding feeling pain, and I was an expert at going numb or going to pieces. I had no coping mechanisms that involved feeling the pain, dealing with the pain, or stepping up to the plate and being responsible for the pain or what caused it.

In fact, my marriage was based on a lie: my lie, the one I told myself. It was the lie that I was someone other than who I really was, that I was someone who would never cheat, someone loyal, someone happy with themselves and capable of true love and joy. I was not. I was a sad, hurt little child who never got over his own demons, and chose to live life as a needy individual, rather than as someone who can love themselves and be strong for others. Instead of reaching out for help, I chose to repeat the abuse that was dealt to me.

My spouse had no part in this. This was my shit-show the entire time. Part of the lies I told myself was that my spouse had anything at all to do with the affair, the aftermath, or the recovery. No, my spouse was the victim, collateral damage, and she was simply doing her best to stay alive after being stabbed in the back and left in the gutter, by me. This was my show, from the get-go. There was nothing my wife needed to "get over" or "forgive" or do or say for my benefit. I spent years trying to manipulate her actions and decisions in order to achieve the outcome I wanted. The truth was, my behavior during reconciliation was in many ways the same as it was during the affair. I was dictating what I wanted/needed from her and doing all I could to make it happen. She was just responding to my continued selfish behavior. It became a vicious cycle: I continued to be selfish, she continued to be hurt by that, she pulled away further, I continued to be selfish. I had no idea that I was still "driving the bus", and convinced myself that pulling away from me is what she wanted. All she really wanted was to stop hurting, and for me to stop being the one hurting her.

She didn’t need my love, my apologies, my excuses, my reasons. What she needed was my honesty, my integrity, my remorse, and my empathy. More than anything, she needed my selfishness and "the fog" to go away. There was nothing that she needed to do for my benefit. In fact, for there to be any hope or reason to build a new relationship together, it had to come from me to begin with. She felt as if she was trapped in a meat grinder and was doing everything she could to stay away from the blades. The best way I could help was by simply turning off the grinder, which was me.

The destruction of my wife and my marriage by the affair, and the affair itself, had a single root cause: me. I was the root cause. The affair did not happen to me, it happened because of me. Everything that happened afterwards also happened because of me. Shortly after D-Day, my wife told me that the real root cause of everything was that I simply "did not love myself". At the time, I had no idea what she was talking about, but in truth, this was the key, the sole reason, for everything. Not just the affair, but my entire life, how I built relationships, how I handled jobs, how I saw myself and others, my addictions, my loves, my hates, my politics, my beliefs, how I dealt with and processed things - everything. The damage done to me by my abusers left me feeling unworthy, so my life was a constant struggle to justify my own value through the eyes of others. I was constantly "hustling for my own worth". I was a funny, loving, supportive and intelligent person, and so I thought that meant that I was okay, that I was great in fact. But all those traits were "faulty coping skills" that I learned in order to make other people love me, because deep down, I could not value myself. My only value came from others, and when others didn't shower me with praise, I felt ugly and worthless inside. This would prompt me to only try harder to impress people, because their approval and love were like emotional oxygen to me, and I could not live without it. When it was taken away from me, I would get mad at them for not giving me what I needed, what I could not provide for myself. Here is a simple fact - you cannot love or respect others when you cannot love or respect yourself. In other words, you cannot give what you do not already possess. There was no way I could love my wife, not because she wasn't worthy of my love, not because I didn't care, but simply because love was something I was not capable of feeling, not really. Love, to me, was a reflection of myself. Every day I hustled for my worth. Every day, I wondered why anyone would have any reason to love me.

Takeaway: Every cheating spouse must do a "deep dive" into their "why's", and then do the hard work to make corrections to their broken perceptions. It is my personal theory that all cheaters, for their own reasons, lack self-love. I believe this to be true, because I believe that it is impossible for someone capable of self-love to have an affair in the first place. A person who has self-love would have the boundaries, integrity and decency that would never allow them to disrespect themselves and their loved ones in such a way in the first place. They would never allow themselves to hurt and use others in such a way. In fact, the mere thought of betraying, lying to and hurting others in such a way would not even be considered an option, because they could never live with themselves or the thought of doing such a thing. It would feel like committing murder, something so far past the bounds of what is reasonable that it is not even a thought to begin with.

Once the cheater is able to discover the origins and reasons for their own lack of self-love, they can then take steps to correct this, and to develop healthy coping skills and personal integrity that will help guide them to a better life, and to better versions of themselves. It will make them a safer person, for themselves and others. Their decisions and actions will now be guided by a belief system, healthy boundaries and integrity. This is not an easy task. It will take courage. It will involve pain and growth. There will be loss. There will be enlightenment. More than anything, perhaps for the first time in your life, you will need to discover not only who you are, but why you are who you are.

And most of all, you will have to do this alone. Of course there may be people along the way to encourage you, but like healing a broken bone, the only person that can do the actual healing is you. You will have to be your own cheerleader, your own coach, your own shoulder to cry on, because at the end of the day, the person you are today lacks these critical skills, and leaning on others is what got you here in the first place. It is time to grow and change, or wither and rot. The choice, and the effort, is yours to make. Until this is done, nothing else can progress.”

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/topics/642916/the-things-i-had-to-accept/

You might love her, but she clearly doesn't love you.
Have counselling for yourself to help you see that.

‘She's not playing the victim. I looked back on what was wrong because if the marriage was perfect then this wouldn't have happened.
I needed to understand what she was going through that lead to this.’

Your mindset for reconciliation is wrong and this here sums it up.

You were both in a lost marriage. You DID NOT cheat. What brought her to it was selfishness and entitlement which it seems to me she is still using to manipulate you. I am not being cruel, I know exactly where you are, I have been there. You need to explore infidelity psychology more. You need to get hold of a copy of ‘leave a cheater gain a life’ to stop this self blame which although you claim you don’t do is oozing from your posts.

Forgive if you feel it’s best for yourself but tbh I don’t think infidelity can be forgiven. It’s ok for some things to be unforgiven.

She should be moving heaven and earth not wallowing in anguish and shame, that is still all about her!

You were wronged, her entire self should be focused on you and what you need to feel safe and loved again. I don’t think she’s doing that and hence why you are here.

Your wife utterly disrespects you. And you put up with it. I would put money on her cheating again in future

They aren't conflicting at all. He can forgive her for the affair but would be very naive to completely trust that it won't happen again. Forgiveness can happen in a moment, trust takes a long time to build.

@LouiseMadetheBestBroccoliPasta thank you. That certainly gives a different perspective.

The amount of times over the years shes struggled with her self worth and ive said and still say "I wish you could see you through my eyes"

I'll suggest individual counselling for her.

I may be a fool for staying and I may get hurt again. But I can't walk away without trying. I think that would eat me up more.
At least if she does it again I can hand on heart say I tried.

But I do totally agree that what she did was entirely selfish. Even her closest friends told her that after I said she had to open up to someone besides me.

I do think the shame is mostly because she got caught and how she was caught.

But I also think she feels a huge amount of relief because she was caught.

I think because she knew how adamant I was that cheeting is the end. No excuses no second chances. That she at the time wanted to leave but instead of standing up and doing so. This happened. And she enjoyed the excitement. Ive no doubt she gaslighted herself into believing whatever she needed to to make it alright.
And thats where I get stuck in a loop.
Had she of just stood up and left. Then we'd be over.
But as she took this path and caused so much hurt. We actually have a slim chance.
Its a propper no win situation.
Yes had she of left there was always a slim chance of reconciliation but knowing her stubbornness I doubt that.

The lacking self love part. Thats something she does need help with.

I dont think she ever expected me to react the way I did. She knew id not be shouty or angry as thats not me. But she also knows im resolute in my desicions. So she thought id just say its over and that would be that.

What she didnt expect and what I think has caused some of the anguish is my willingness to try. I think now she knows just how much I love her. Just what she broke.

Thank you again for the help understanding.

I hope that things work out for you both and that this brings you closer in the end as that is clearly what you want. It’s understandable to want to work it out and she is lucky to have an emotionally intelligent man like you. I hope she treats you with respect and honesty moving forward.

But don’t lose yourself in your compassion for her. Your needs matter too. You are not her safe space that she can ‘pick’ if she wants to. She needs to understand that what she has with you is valuable because it can be lost by her selfish and hurtful actions. You don’t have to hate her but you have to recognise that sometimes love is not enough. Love yourself first.

If she wanted to leave you before the affair as you suggest then there is a possibility that she wishes you had broken up with her over it. And now she’s is the position where she still has to choose to leave and she’s a coward. She feels shame about her choices because cheating and leaving you doesn’t make her a good person. But that doesn’t mean she’s done a 180 and now is 100% in your marriage. And you don’t deserve anything less.

She needs therapy to understand her reasons for cheating before you even bother with couples counselling. Good luck 🍀