I forgave her, perhaps too quick

[AnonymouseDad]

Hi,

I'm not a mum so I hope this is ok here. On other sites like redit all there seems to be is men saying kick her out to any affair post.

Not sure what advise I'm looking for, maybe just some outside perspective.

We've been married over 10 years. Together for 20. We have two amazing kids, 10 and 16.

We've had our ups and downs but through everything we've always been close. We talk about our days, what's going on in the world, our kids. Absolutely anything and everything except how we're feeling.

I've acknowledged that and other areas we failed in.

We have grown distant over the last while. Physically too. I'm much more of a physical person than she is. It's always been that way. She started to shrug off my touch or a hug like I was dirty. The more that happened the more it hurt so I stopped trying as much.

We stopped sleeping in the same bed. I snore quite loudly and have tried all sorts but nothings worked. She's a light sleeper and has a temper if disturbed so I started sleeping on the sofa so she could have a good nights sleep.
Sex was still there even with me sleeping on the sofa. But over time she withdrew more from that too. I would never complain or say it's something I need. To me sex should always be mutual.

She would say she had lost her confidence and needed space and her mental health wasn't good. Me touching her or trying to kiss was not helping. She asked me to give her space and let her come to me. We both agreed a marriage is about so much more than sex. So I gave her space and her initiating anything became less and less. When we did she would say she wanted to more but then we'd have the same conversation about space.

Back end of last year she became so much more distant and highly irritable.
She would snap at the smallest thing. No matter what I did it always seemed I was in the wrong.

We still had plenty of moments though where we would talk about everything.
And throughout I could always make her smile or laugh.

I know her mental health isn't great so I figured it was just a rough patch and tried to help as best as I could and give her the space she needs. I started to notice that if she went a few days not taking one of the tablets she takes for her mental health, she would be much more herself and happier. I suggested talking to the doctor and changing it.

Instead she just stopped taking it all together. For a few days she was fine but then slowly became even snappier. More on edge.

There was no chance in having a conversation about it.

Around that time last year I started to suspect there may be someone else but dismissed it.

A month or so back though I found a freshly used pregnancy test. As we've not had sex in a few months I knew there was someone else.

I thought about nothing else for quite a while. I needed to know who and how long. I desperately wanted to say something but didn't know how. I think I was scared to hear the truth.

I've always been a firm believer in cheating is the end. No exceptions.

But faced with reality I realised just how much I loved her and started to put myself in her shoes. I felt lonely but hadn't thought she felt the same.

I spent a lot of time thinking about how I can be better. I decided I wanted to fight for us.

Then a couple of weeks ago after a night out she told me she thinks we are done. We talked a lot and hugged a lot. I asked her about the test and she claimed it was an old one. I knew she was lying but there was a glimmer of hope that I was wrong.

I told her again a night later that I thought she was lying. I even said who I thought it was. A person who for months had loved every social media post of hers and just looked like a right smug bastard. He was someone she used to work with. I'd even tried to help him find a new job when he was made redundant. Never met him but took his number to a few contacts I new were looking for someone.

I told her how I felt and what she meant to me. I also told her how all I want is for her to be happy and if that truely means without me then I won't stand in her way.

We actually got along better after talking about us and we both went through all sorts of emotions.

We even spent a night just holding each other and kissing. Nothing further. It didn't feel right to do anything more than that.

There were also some lows. She wasn't coping well with the turmoil in emotion it seamed so when she said she needed a night away from me, the kids and the pets just to cry and let it all out and not be disturbed I agreed. I had a suspicion she wasn't going for that reason but I gave her my card to book a hotel with and left to pick up our son.

She was gone by the time I was back.

I felt awful but kept it together and got the kids sorted and once in bed I kept checking my phone. I could see it had been a while since she had looked at hers. The goodnight messages from the kids had gone unread and her activity on social media said it had been a couple of hours since she looked.

Then I got a phone call from her. I answered and there was just silence. I asked if everything was ok. Was she ok.
After a minute or so the sound came on and I could hear her breathing heavily. Then I heard a man groaning really loudly.

It felt like everything in me broke. There was no glimmer of hope to hold onto.

I said I could hear them three times. Then it muted. I couldn't make myself end the call. I couldn't move at all.

The call ended a few minutes after and I called back twice. She answered and I said I'd heard them.

Reluctantly she told me who it was and I was right about the person.

She came home. We talked through until the sun came up.

To start with she said that was the first time. I called BS and she then said there was one other time when she said she'd stayed over at a friends house after a night out. I still think there was more.

They'd been meeting up for a few months for drinks or coffees. Messaging for longer.

We thought her fitbit had made the call to start with as she didn't understand how it happened and how I could hear as her phone was across the room in her jacket pocket.

I found out that fitbits can't make calls and hers doesn't have a microphone. She said that when they were finished she looked for her phone but couldn't find it so they both looked. She told him to check her jacket again and he found it and handed it to her and thats when she saw it was on a call with me.

I firmly believe he made the call. He took her phone earlier and as I'm her emergancy contact he didn't have to unlock the phone to call me.

She said he told her he loves her so I think that was him trying to force me to leave her. She doesn't believe that but did doubt him enough to send him a message asking for him to tell her the truth.

We've spent a lot of time talking. About where we went wrong. How we feel. What we need to do, what we should do.

I told her that night that I forgave her. She was not expecting that at all knowing what my attitude towards affairs was.

We've arranged counselling to start in a couple of weeks time.

We're still living together and have actually gotten along really well.

Even the kids have noticed how much calmer she is.

I saw some of the messages on her phone the day after. I've never ever gone through her phone but I saw a message from him pop up and opened it. It was before she messaged about the truth of the call. He said he wanted to still be close but understood she needs time to sort her family out.
I looked at past messages and saw them talking about what they'd wanted to do to each other. I immediately told her what I'd done as I felt guilty and sick.

I've not demanded anything. I do not control her actions and never will. I have not said to never contact him again.

A few days ago she told me that she is cutting all contact with him and that it hurts because apart from anything they have been friends for a long time.

I do want to believe her, and I think I do but more and more I'm finding it hard to trust anything she says. I won't ask to see her phone as I do not want to be that person. I have said how I feel though.

She tells me she wants to try and fix us but it's scary to think of the work we need to do. She does say when she looks into the future she can't see life without me. And I can't see life without her. But is that as just friends, co-parents or together?

I'm worried I forgave too quick and didn't give myself time to think. I do love her and I do want to try and fix us.

Regardless of what happens I am using this pain to make myself a better me. I do more in the house. I have been taking better care of myself and have joined a gym so I have somewhere to vent physically.
I'm taking a step back from the evening work I do that was always a problem for us. While the money was nice and I love that I have something very cool to do and get paid. It built up to two or three nights a week. I've hired others to cover me and am taking a step back to only work on the events I want to.

So I know I'll come out of this better. I just want to know how to protect myself from it happening again without being controlling or an arsehole.

I think what they'd say on reddit will.be what they say on here. Your marriage is over, she hasn't loved you for years by the sound of things

Oh, I do also have male friends and some of them have also been unfaithful and their marriages have survived well. And no, I wasn't brought up to shut up, but rather not to GIVE up so easily as some people do. It's worth a bit of effort sometimes. But I'm not here to tell you about me or my marriage but to point out that a lot of you must be living in a different world from me if your relationships are so weak that you can't muster the where-with-all to work at them when necessary. There are plenty of other things in life that need working at - be prepared!

"a lot of you must be living in a different world from me if your relationships are so weak that you can't muster the where-with-all to work at them when necessary"

I think that's a laudable POV, but it can lead to people losing a lot of time and emotional energy on someone who will NEVER shape up, or not sufficiently to be a safe partner. This is particularly true for women but I've also read many infidelity stories where the male BS hangs on and on while the cheating wife breaks NC again and again, or shows no remorse and prances about spouting entitled cake-eating nonsense while her H gets ground down into a depressed and anxious wreck. Some of these dreadful cases go on for YEARS, and it's really sad and painful to watch.

Infidelity is also a particularly difficult challenge in marriage because it's so painful and hits at the core of everything, causing the BS to not just lose trust in their partner but also themselves and their ability to judge people. It also hits at the financial core of the marriage. And it hits violently at the core of the BS's self esteem and sense of lovability and attractiveness. Infidelity is actually abuse in every sense of the word - emotional, mental (because of the gaslighting and lying), physical (STDs), sexual (most BSs would not consent to sex if they knew about the cheating), reproductive in the case of women (some STDs cause female infertility), and financial.

So while I think OP is doing the right thing by setting boundaries and giving his wife the chance to repair the massive damage she caused OP and the marriage, he should also be aware that cheaters are very very VERY tricky. He should prepare himself for breaking of NC or finding that his wife took the affair underground or paused the affair until OP's suspicions died down. She should be fully open with her phone etc but OP should also snoop, because you simply canNOT trust a cheater, especially when its obvious they're still in the fog. The cheater lies lies lies lies lies. That's what cheaters do.

OP, you say you're not sure what you will do if NC is broken. That means you will likely allow your boundary of "one more time and the marriage is over" to be broken. You accepting that will just embolden your wife and you will have started down the soul-destroying path I described above.

If she does break that boundary, you must stick to the consequences that you said would come. Initiate divorce proceedings etc. Divorces take a while to go through, so she will still have time to stop it by showing you she has taken/is taking all the steps needed to become a safe partner to you.

This happens quite a lot. The problem then is that the BS has hung in for so long and has been so burned and repeatedly wounded that they hate the cheater and there is no chance of reconciliation. So by sticking to your boundaries at the first NC break or new DD, you give your wife ANOTHER chance while protecting yourself and the children.

Leaving someone you've built an entire life with is definitely the harder option than staying married to a cheater.

That's why most people stay married when their spouse cheats - but after a year or two most break up, because the wronged spouse manages to get their head around what happened, realises they don't deserve it and get together the strength to leave.

Of course it's your choice to work at it, but you do seem to be blaming yourself and the OM - to make this really work you need to accept who is to blame for this situation, and it's your wife, not anyone else. Marries can work after infidelity, but you mustn't be in denial about what's she's done.

Is that what she wants though ?
sounds like she is saying and doing anything to get what she wants .
Mental health issues so she sleeps around right ok then .
!
If she isn’t happy I’m her relationship she should be honest and end it .

She needs to leave not you .

I'm really, really struggling to understand how you could forgive her lying to your face when you confronted her, taking YOUR credit card and booking a hotel to shag her lover the same night. If that doesn't scream of treating you like dirt on her shoe I honestly don't know what does. Then, being able to move past hearing her mid-sex.

If you're determined not to end the relationship, there is a halfway house. She could move out temporarily whilst you both continue to give 100% to couples therapy, and give you space to evaluate what you're learning and feeling during therapy. Space is underrated as a healing tool. And FYI, a therapist won't take on the role of checking her phone. Your reluctance to do that yourself suggests you already know you might find something.

I wish you luck but honestly you deserve better.

Taking account of myself and working on improvements for me to use for myself, my marriage or a future relationship is not accepting blame for what she did.

I'd be an absolute fool to think I was perfect and in no way contributed to the faults in our marriage.

And those faults are completely separate from what she did.

I have and take zero blame for her actions.

Id also be a fool to think its all going to turn out well.

I know I'm setting myself up for potentially more pain. But I think its worth that risk.

Leaving wouldn't not be hard for either of us financially. We've no debts apart from a manageable mortgage. We both earn well and can afford to live independently. We've also got a good amount of savings too.

The kids are the only part that makes it hard. But I know they are mature enough to cope.

I stay because I want to try.

No, I gave her my card when I thought she was going to a hotel to be by herself. I wasn't 100% certain that was where she was going but I had to leave to pick up our son.
She didnt use my card. She went to his place.

We talked about moving out and she offered. Our main concern is the kids and how to explain that to them.
Having us both in the same house we can give space. But we can also talk too. And that has been good.

Shes not once used mental health as an excuse. Im just piecing together the behavior change.

I completely agree and so do the close friends she told. She should have left before this happened.

And thats the paradox. I wouldn't be here now dealing with all this. But equally I wouldn't be here now using this to improve myself and get things done that id put off like prioritising my fitness and learning better habits.

@AnonymouseDad uou posted elsewhere for told to leave you have posted here and been told the same .
You are defending every person who says anything about your wife. .
You have made your choice no point asking others . If you’re going to make excuses .

Fact is if she loved you and/or was committed to you and her family . She wouldn’t have cheated ! Simple

FGS, she made a mistake. A mega mistake. A cruel one, with serious repercussions for everyone affected. Of course, I am only assuming she also thinks it was a mistake. But my view is they should both accept that for now and see what happens. OP has assessed the risk of a repeat, realised that it won't be easy, but also that it is worth the effort to try.

That's one mature man in my view - and most of you seem to think it makes him weak. I don't. We might live in a throw-away society these days but there are some things worth keeping. A decent marriage is definitely up there.

I hope it works for you.

"That's one mature man in my view - and most of you seem to think it makes him weak. I don't."

I don't either.

I've been reading infidelity boards for years, and there are few people - male or female - who have displayed the dignified self confidence, and kind and civilised commitment to his wife and marriage, that OP does.

I feel quite sure that whatever happens, he will be OK, his kids will be OK, and probably even his wife will be OK.

Thank you @madmeg1952

That is it exactly. Thank for your words.

I'm certainly not weak. I know that and so does my wife and those who know me.

To me being weak would have been walking away from 20 years of history.

That would have been easy but I would have regretted not trying.

I truly wish you both luck in rebuilding your marriage and I think the “surviving infidelity” page is an excellent idea.

I personally don’t think taking a step back and “letting them make their way” is a good idea when dealing with someone having an affair. Your wife needs a therapist and the support of you PLUS the people you’ve said you’re both telling to keep her in check. While I agree you can’t “police” someone, I think that only applies to people who are saying what you want to hear and truly don’t want to change. For those people you watching them is the only reason they don’t do it again - the minute they have the chance, they will do it. It seems to me given this was one person, in a weak time in her life, if she wants to rebuild herself and your marriage then she can.

My view is that she’s no different from a pyromaniac who burned your garage down and has not got a taste for setting fires but doesn’t want to keep hurting things. She can never (possibly ever again) be trusted with matches and must have help and support to account for her own behaviour because she’s now an alcoholic being sent to the pub for a 0% G&T.

If she truly sees her own behaviour as self destructive and wants to stop for herself (not JUST you!) then she needs your support and that of others - not for you to step back and hope for the best. (She will burn your entire house down, as it were!)

No, she doesn’t get privacy, or she’ll go for the matches again. Get a family messages plan. Tell her you won’t look (and mean it) but that you both must be open with eachother. Perhaps she got here because she can’t read the room in these “situations” potentially until it’s too late when she’s vulnerable. There is nothing I won’t say or point out to my husband if I feel the need to and he knows not to fight me on it. He’s the same with me. While I don’t do it, I know if I ask for his phone, he’ll hand it over immediately with no questions and there’s no choice in that.

I have the utmost trust for him, but it’s reinforced by a behavioural commitment to honour that trust by being open and honest.

He gets the same from me - I’ve moved to several new jobs recently. Having talked to him about the image it paints to single (or lonely married…) women if he has lunch with them every day and DMs them jokes on Zoom 24/7, I point it out to him when I sense someone doing it to me at work and ask his opinion too. I’ll show him the messages and say “is it just me, or is Jack being flirty ish there?” And I tell him if someone asks if I can grab a coffee or lunch (I only do if there’s a few of us) and I get a “vibe”. It’s the only way it all works I’m afraid! Death by honesty!

(It goes without saying if not clear, ive been in your shoes before (not with one person…) for a short time in our life and we’re now happier than ever years late and neither feel trapped by what is a very open and honest marriage!)

Hi. Well I feel your pain and understand what a difficult situation you are in. This is how my story started, 15 years ago! Trying to understand, to make myself ‘better’, to fix things. I tried to be a better wife, get fit, change my appearance to please him, None or it worked! Recently discovered the use of escorts over 12 months. I still tried to make it work with counselling etc, In the end I went to counselling alone. Set my boundaries, worked on myself, soon his sorry turned to anger as he lost control. Instead of me trying to fix it I realised that was up to him. He didn’t do it, Finally made the decision enough is enough and now I’m a c**t and love playing the victim.
My advice to you would be…she needs to do the work, she has manipulated and betrayed you, taken your kindness for weakness. Take a step back, observe. What is she doing to fix what she broke. When she was having sex with another man did she think of you and the kids? No! Because she is selfish! There are many good women out there who will appreciate you. Another main factor is whatever relationship you have if what you model for your children. Is this what you would want for them? Be a bit stronger in what ‘you’ need, step back and you will soon see her true colours! I did

So here's an update.
We had counseling or at least the first session. A lot came out and it was good. The counsellor is superb. She does not assign blame or takes sides. She just helped bring explanations out.
She did make it clear that an affair is a choice and that it wasn't a symptom of the marriage. She did also say how easy it is to fall into one.
I saw the first few messages between them and it was him the OM who professed his love for my wife and she initially rejected him. His messages back were stating how unworthy he was of her and how he was a nobody. There were quite a few like that and my wife kept telling him he wasn't a nobody and telling him that he was worthy of somebody. It kept on like that and as they had been friends for years and worked together she was saying when he was low to wait where he was and she would come and make sure he was OK. Exactly as she would do for anyone.
He knew what he was doing and also knew my wife was in a vulnerable place.
That does not excuse what she did and what started out as a maternal instinct evolved with her permission.
My wife had a big moment of realisation and an end to her denial that it was her fault and realised what she had thrown away. She knew and stated that she needed to be the one to leave because she was in the wrong.
It was like the floodgates opened and she just broke.
I calmly pointed out that there are consequences and so far I'm whose suffering them for her choices.
We talked a lot about what we had and what shes thrown away.
She could not understand how I was able to give her a chance to start with and how I thought id ever be able to trust her.
I had to go out for one of our kids clubs but kept in contact by text as I was worried about her state of mind.
And then I did something that id normally do. I made an embarrassing mistake and I never keep those from her so I sent her the story of the mistake.
My other child who was at home said whatever I sent did something odd. My wife belly laughed and cried and then laughed some more and just went round in a cycle and when she calmed down just said I do love him.
When I got home she appologised without reserve and promised to work and do whatever it takes if I could please not let go. She said she knows we may not make it but she wants to try and she understands how vulnerable to future hurt that makes me.
Shes talking to a doctor about her mental health and also enthusiastic about the therapy and wants us to get individual therapy too.
Since then she has been so much lighter. Like a new lease on life.
At every opportunity she is holding my hand or hugging me. We built up to a kiss that just felt natural.
And then we just carried it on and slept together and it felt like it did 20 years back. Hesitant and just right. Each time shes near me now she makes sure to touch just like she used to and invites my touch. It feels kind of like a new beginning. She knows I dont trust her and is taking steps to reassure me of her honesty.
I dont know if this is just a phase or if it is a new beginning for us but for the first time in a while I have hope. My guard is still up though and im not throwing in completely. I know and so does she that we have a long way to go before we are ok and I'll hold off putting my wedding ring back on until im sure we can make it.

@AnonymouseDad "When I got home she appologised without reserve and promised to work and do whatever it takes if I could please not let go. She said she knows we may not make it but she wants to try and she understands how vulnerable to future hurt that makes me.
Shes talking to a doctor about her mental health and also enthusiastic about the therapy and wants us to get individual therapy too."

Things could not be going better, imo. I hold high hopes for you and your marriage.

Has she gone completely NC with the AP? When she talks about him, is she defensive of him, or does she see what a creeping dirtbag he is?

And before anyone says anything. We did go through STI testing and all clear before we went further.

She was defensive in small ways of him. More like maternal defensive if that makes sense.

But now after just that session made everything clearer she is completely NC.

@AnonymouseDad this sounds so positive. From what I'd read previously, I wasn't sure she'd accept what she did and acknowledge the impact on you but it sounds like she is and she's trying hard. You do right to keep your guard up and maybe trust will slowly come back (I don't know, I've not been in your position). I really hope it works out for you

I agree.

I hope it's works out for you, you deserve it.

When she is actually disgusted by him, and revolted that she fell for his creeping advances, is when you will know the AP is no longer a threat and your marriage can heal.

Cheating women in particular form emotional bonds with their APs and can feel addicted to them. It's called limerence (a form of infatuation), no doubt you have read about it in your research on infidelity. It can take quite some time for those intense feelings to subside and for their heads to clear.

So your wife might still be quite "foggy". It sounds like the therapy session lifted her head out of the clouds a bit. But keep your eye our for what she says about the AP, that's a good measure of her fogginess (and the emotional danger to you).

Did you read the update? It is getting better.

I was fully ready for her to leave.

I'm glad I didn't take the easy path. Still a long way to go but baby steps.

Good on both of you. We all make mistakes. Hope you both can work through this and get back on track !