Partner says he’s not going to ‘pander’ to me anymore

[Potentialfuturemother]

So for a bit of background, we’ve been together for 12 years and are getting married this summer. We are both nearly 32 and are planning on having children next year. I am overall very happy in the relationship and love him very much. However the last few days we’ve had a couple of rows and the way he’s dealt with them is very different to usual. Everyone argues ofc and normally they’re two sided affairs. But the last two we’ve had it feels like he’s almost trying to stamp out my opinion. Today we disagreed about something he said (he tried to blame me for the dog hurting himself and getting a limp on a walk which I thought was outrageous) so I got annoyed and argued my point. He then came out with this narrative that from now on he’s not going to pander to me, that he said nothing wrong and that he’s going to be firmer from now on. I couldn’t believe what I was hearing, he was speaking like I was a child. I’ve tried not to exacerbate the row and just let it be for now as he does sometimes get in weird tired moods and he’s had a very busy week at work. But I’m basically wondering if anyone else has experienced this and where this idea could be coming from.

Respectfully, it isnt the first time op has experienced this from him if he has sometimes has “wierd, tired moods” that she has to work around,

Trying to he balanced here op, can you expand on the moods? How frequently do they occur? How do they manifest themselves? In what circumstances?

Could it be stress? Some sort of overwhelm?
Wedding jitters? Any sort of illness? That could be understandable except:

-the very specific words he chose to admonish you with
-the fact that you didn’t feel comfortable challenging him further
-you don’t have children yet, so trust me this should be the easy bit, and if he can’t manage his stress and fatigue now without taking it out on you, it’s going to be miserable when you have a baby
-timing

The latter is very important because abusers do sometimes start to change after marriage or after the advent of children. I am sure that some Mumsnetters can recommend good books but Why does he do that? by Lundy Bancroft might be a good start,

Please be aware that abusers do create little “tests” to see how far they can push your boundaries, which is how their undermining process begins.

Also op, when you say;
“genuinely don’t think that it’s fair to say ‘just don’t marry him’. This is someone I’ve lived with for 8 years and built a life with. He’s not abusive or horrible in any way. In fact he’s incredibly supportive and loving 99% of the time”

^^ He may well have been supportive and loving 99% of the time, and you are right, actions are more important than words. But, by using the “pandering” narrative, he has, unfortunately or fortunately, revealed some of his inner thoughts to you about how he characterises your relationship and that insight is revealing and sufficiently alarming for you to post here about it.

Op I know wedding plans are taking shape and you have a dog and judging from your op and your nn, children are imminent.

But you are only 32 and please believe me when I say that you have plenty of time to start again. I know lots of people who got married around 38 and have dc and have now been married 25+ years. So you have options. Please be very, very careful of having dc with this man and tying yourself to him forever without getting to the bottom of this.

You know inside yourself why you posted your op,

In your shoes, I would quietly pack a bag this morning, leave a note saying you are going away for the weekend, and go and stay with friends or family, somewhere where you can reflect and find support.

This will signal to him that you have strong boundaries and that you won’t be spoken to like a child or be a conduit for his stress. That you have self worth. Also, that you are capable of unilateral, independent action, without reference to him. Also that you are someone to be valued, who isn’t a safe bet, despite the date of the wedding fast approaching. Also, that you are not so dependent on him for love that you will overlook disrespect or threats.

Frankly if my fiancé said to me that he was going to be “firmer” with me in future, which for all intents and purposes is a clear threat, then I would this morning be gathering important documents together, especially those concerning joint mortgages and income, packing my bags and asking friends and family to come and collect me,

Good luck op, 💐 I am very, very sorry that you are having to deal with this but please be brave and don’t ignore this huge red flag. At least he showed his true colours before you had dc together, which is a very good thing, It may not feel like it now, but in future you may feel very relieved that you didn’t let his comments slide.

I'm really sorry that this sounds cold hearted and cruel. Please consider that perhaps it's not. Perhaps it's very very good advice from people who gave grace and paid very heavily for it.

A really useful resource for you to access is Burned Haystack Dating Method. It's free on Substack, Facebook and Instagram. It's about looking at what language men use and what it actually means in the long run. It's a community of 200k wonderfully supportive women and non-binary folk. It will give you very useful context for your decision.

I think at a minimum you need to find a calm time and talk to him about why/how he said this.

And also consider why it impacted you so much you felt a need to write about it on MN. Over the years I have seen quite a few women post something 'small' but who then later realise it is a symptom of something much bigger.

Is he getting cold feet with the wedding? I’d ask him why he has suddenly changed in his approach and why he would think you could enter into a marriage and kids with him having an attitude like that

Everybody changes a bit when you marry, as the stereotypes you grow with kick in and your expectations change, even when you try to avoid it, at least a little bit of change happens.

We were together for a few years before getting married and had a little flat that my boyfriend was very proud of, he had refurbished it with his own hands. Every time someone came into it for the first time and said “Wow!” Would be regaled with the tales of moving walls, changing fittings, have the furniture made to measure, etc.

The week after we married… every time someone say “wow!” He would apologise for the small size of the flat. Obviously, in his mind, the flat was brilliant for a single couple but not for a married one even when we had decided already we were not going to have children AND we loved the flat.

My mother in law also became very abusive and controlling, she started shouting at me and if she was having a go at me, my husband would just take himself out of the room and go and watch television next door without trying to stop the tirade because those were “women issues” he shouldn’t be involved into.

So careful there, the stereotype that is kicking in with your soon to be husband is a dangerous one, how was his dad towards his mum? How do men treat women in his family? What do they expect from them? If you don’t like what you see, drag your feet or… run. Marriage protects you, but it is also far more difficult to escape when things go wrong, some men start seeing women as belonging to them and controlling what they do.

I would tell him that you need some relationship counselling as a must before you go forward with children or marriage.

You may not like to hear it but there is a lot of experience on this forum and people are just trying to warn you.

Couple of things stood out here:

• He’s been bottling up his true feelings - “not pandering to you anymore”
• now he feels he’s got you hooked his true self can start pooping out
• Weird tired moods - if this means he ignores you or is rude, it’s not normal. Guarantee this will be a nightmare if you have kids!!

Popping not pooping 😅

Imagine if humans didn't have a shared experience of tigers. You'd look and think "that thing looks cuddly and friendly". It's only the shared experience that tells us the tiger could kill us. Are you sure you can trust your own experience of this man, over the shared experience of many other posters?

I was oblivious to my internal misogynistic traits as a younger man. It's only being a full time stay at home dad, home educator, person that runs the show while my wife makes most the money, that's made me realize the deep rooted "male superiority" views I had of women from my childhood, and that exists in broader society.

There's no way I'm putting that shit into my son, so I've had to address it. I have a lovely marriage, with a brilliant, capable woman. I admire her so very much, and talking down to her in that kind of way, really would be a huge red flag that for some reason my respect for her, and recognition that she is my absolute equal had changed.

I would guess he’s been having a think about what marriage would mean to him and is setting out his stall now so that you can get used to it.

I’m not saying LTB but I would call off the wedding.

I would ask him what he meant by what he said and drill down into it a bit without being attacking

He's contemptuous of you. Once contempt has crept in, the relationship is over. Run. I did eventually but the damage to my confidence was awful.

He’s going to be firmer with you now is he? And how does that look? Is it not letting you have an opinion? Is it a slap around the face when he’s not happy with your actions?

People are telling you it’s a red flag…because it is one.

@PotentialfuturemotherIf you were my friend-man or woman-in real life I would say exactly the same things. It wouldn’t sound cold hearted because it would take at least a whole evening and involve wine and food and lots of repetition, but it would come down to telling you not to ignore this red flag.

And OP-please,please,please don’t get pregnant at this point. You’ve got time. Resolve this first.

The idea that this man may well have been pandering to the OP in unreasonable ways doesnt even occur to anyone here. It's like they can't imagine a woman behaving in that way.

Please be careful OP. I am divorced - this is how it started with my ex, and it got worse over time. Others are also speaking from their own experience. I know it's so hard when you have sunk costs of the years you have together, and of course you want to have kids. The PP who asks about his parents' relationship makes a good point.

Also please don't feel it is your role in life to absorb his stress and support him. That can also go badly wrong for you.

Good luck ... I could written something similar at aged 28. I am now 56.

Do not marry him and do not get pregnant by him.

It sounds to me like he's been listening to MRAs/Andrew Tate and other misogynists and has decided he needs to assert his authority over you rather than working on the assumption that you are his equal.

Seriously, what makes you say that instead of allowing for the fact that the OP might ve unreasonable in their behaviour and he has been pandering? Why are you so sure the man is wrong and the woman is right?

Honey, just run and thank the Gods for this alert. You will be miserable having his babies.

The matter of the argument and who is right or wrong is irrelevant. The language used, of "pandering" is that of someone who believes themself superior and in authority over the other. It doesn't matter if OP is wrong on this specific argument, she is in a relationship with someone who does not respect her or see her as a partner and equal, but as a lesser-sub-human.

My abusive ex waited until we moved in together for this kind of change. They can play a very long game and wait until they think they have you trapped. Yes they are great most of the time.

This is a massive red flag.

Please talk to some trusted people in real life about this and see what they say.

My ex said in couples therapy he'd decided once married he 'refused to put up with my bullshit'. We were together 8 years before married, was happy. I left 8 months into marriage. He tried controlling everything, I was in tears every weekend in that 8 months. Just turned into a total narcissist (yes, I know thrown about a lot) after marriage. In hindsight we're a lot of small flags leading this way but nothing worth breaking up for. He's tried to make my life hell, won't let him now but the abuse I got after marriage/break up was mad. Never could have said that before marriage.

Talk about it with him? Ask him what he meant by pandering and for examples of when he feels he did that and why. Explain what you feel in light of those answers and how you felt in the moment. Give him the opportunity to be the man you thought he was. If not, then decide if you really want this life going forward.

I would say what he said to you was cold hearted and cruel. And you are supposed to be the person be loves move than anyone else in the world

if you are staying with him then you’ll need to have a very frank discussing with him where you ask him to explain why he thinks accepting that you are disagreeing with him or acknowledging that he was not correct is ‘pandering’ and why he thinks it’s appropriate to tell you, a grown woman that he is no longer going to accept a situation where you don’t agree and stand by your guns?

his response will tell you if there is any saving the relationship

if he argues at all that he is justified then you have no reasonable course of action other than to end the relationship

Start to keep a log of his words and actions.

And how you feel.

Plenty more fish in the sea. He sounds like a tosser! Get out while you can and take the dog with you.