May 2025 - 'We took you to STATELY HOMES' thread.

[Pleaseshutthefuckup]

Hope all ok with a new thread here. I've looked and can't find one anywhere past February.

My sister was mum’s favourite and is very much trying to centre herself in the family. She’s always there with dad despite not living with him (another sibling lives with him) so nobody else really gets to talk or spend time with him privately. She is, truthfully, as narcissistic as mum was and all of us have been really careful around her. She did briefly begin to make bitchy comments about me trying to rehash old memories of what mum said to her about me but I shut that down by threatening to tell my brother’s wife what mum and sister used to say about her.

I have a brother who is my parents’ carer and lives with them with his wife and kids. He’s really frustrated that my sister is there all the time as he feels there’s no privacy for them as a family.

My other sibling is frozen out like me but I think he prefers it that way.

Thanks for the advice @AttilaTheMeerkat. I know i shouldn’t respond in any way, ive never responded to their contact attempts previously, but this incident has unsettled me. The green where they were playing is very open but there are corners of large trees and it was from the trees that my father came from, as opposed to walking about in full view, if that makes sense? My kids said he just appeared and this left them “confused”. My fear is he will bring my NM next. My fear is that I dont have a proper understanding of them, I don’t know what they’re capable of, I didnt think he would do what he’s done and he has. Thanks again for your response, I have some thinking to do.

I’m in a similar situation as I’m NC, but some of them are prone to stalking me, it’s very unsettling. My biggest fear is they will target the children.

Did your children tell you what your father said to them? Creeping around kids, sneaking behind trees is a bit disturbing because it implies he was watching them. I would be inclined to report it to the police. I don’t know if they will do anything. But I would hope that stalking children is a crime. If you start reporting it from now then if it becomes a pattern they might be able to do something - even if it’s a police visit that might scare him off.

@junebugalice I really understand how upsetting this is. They are very much like a virus and every appearance feels like a statement from them.

I don't know legally whether an injunction of sorts is achievable. I would probably be doing some research tbh, I'd probably seek a free 30 minutes solicitor appt. if you can find one and would explore the feasibility of getting something legal in place.

I agree that your reaction and emotion is what they desire. I don't even know if these personality types know that is what they are doing consciously, yet, drama, emotion and reaction from you is one of the aims, it is called ' supply'. Supply could also include flattery, praise.

You can do everything to process those feelings internally and leave it and do nothing. But they may continue with this behaviour without a huge boundary in their face. It's not clear how they would possibly escalate without knowing the extent and depth of their obvious derangement.

If the grandchildren reject them consistently enough - that I feel would be impactful. But the risk is that these are children and personality disordered people like your parents will try everything to win them over.

I would also ask yourself exactly what you're afraid of with the contact they're making doing these things. What is your true fear from this. Is it that your kids will start wanting to be with them? Is it how you feel when you see them?

When you look at them as pathetic and with indifference, I believe that's when they're more likely to start looking elsewhere to meet their shitty needs and supply. If they realise it's not meeting their needs they go elsewhere. Supply will include drama, a fight, them being the victim, strong reaction from you. How you get here isn't easy. I spend a great deal of time watching professionals and their advice but still feel stuck.

I realise alot of my own fears are actually - I. Scared I'll get sucked in again and lose faith and trust in myself and what I see and know with distance from them ii. That my own son will be forever used against me as a flying monkey ( definitely this and there's evidence of it happening at times tbh).

I would possibly consider how to talk to your kids about them depending on age. I really don't know the best advice on how you do this. Whether it is appropriate to tell your kids to leave anytime they see them. This would not work for me as my own teen is way too enmeshed. I have to play a game unfortunately.

I consulted a professional recently ref my own son and her advice was to help educate and empower him as to what manipulation looks like and how people use this so he has the strength to pull away himself. He is 13 though so that's possible. If yours are too young it's tricky. I'd possibly say to them that they are to come straight home immediately if those two ( however you refer to them) turn up where you are not there.

@Pleaseshutthefuckup My DH always says indifference/behave like they are pathetic is the best way to deal with stalker relatives, but what do you think that would look like? I can’t figure out how to convey that? (Sorry to hijack, but hopefully this will be useful to ( @junebugalice too).

The more and more distance helps detach from the fog and thoughts of them as powerful, in control of you and dominating you. This for me means total shutdown, I don't have any SM contact with anyone at all. I basically can distance quite alot and this for me is when you start building yourself and see it all. E.g they're pathetic.

So absolutely no reminders of them as much as possible - I believe helps so much to start seeing exactly what they are. It's actually embarrassing when you become clear about what they do and what they are.

Doing things that bring you joy,build your own self esteem and skills, I believe really helps you become stronger emotionally and detach your brain. These people suck your confidence and self belief away. So you don't SEE them because you're under their fog. When you start doing all those things you're good at (you will have skills you might not realise). And don't have any of their flying monkeys in your ear - you'll grow and you'll see them more and more.

The problem is they always react very badly to boundaries and we end up playing this game at the same time. Like Junebug, their escalation is very dramatic and look how it diverts her energy, focus and peace away from all the good things in her mind, her time putting her mind in a place where she builds herself. That's what they do.

I would be rehearsing every single scenario tbh. I actually do this alot in life. I have a conversation with myself pretending I've come across them, or someone said to me ' ah why are you being so mean", etc. I have a response for almost all scenarios.

This helps maintain your calm. This helps you get less triggered. This helps you spend time building yourself doing things that are joyful, expressions of you, because you won't spend days replaying things wishing you did x y z.

I will find the speaker I've been listening to this week. He gives excellent advice and even helps you rehearse responses.

I haven't read your recent posts properly I confess but will catch up later.

Based on this update, I would have a very clear plan in mind ref what I would say to the kids.

It's actually incredibly creepy so it is appropriate to talk to the children about no contact, no communication and to come straight home immediately. I am a huge advocate in truth for the children. An age appropriate way to explain that people have boundaries, what boundaries are and they must always be respected. Yours are not being respected and that is inappropriate. You will explain more when they're older.

This is the line I use with my teen as he sees and senses how they get to me. He also has lost contact with my nephews because of my NC with sibling so always asks.

With regards to what they're capable of - this is exactly what I've said to myself and that's scary. Because we spent a lifetime not fully conscious of their nuttyness.

So prepare prepare for everything. Know that they will be telling everyone you are the problem, they will spread lies. Prepare for it. It's called the smear campaign. The advice is never ever defend yourself. There are multiple lines I have saved from professionals online if anyone confronts you on their behalf . Calm, no defense and say little as possible.

Security wise, ensure you have a doorbell camera, they can't ever access any information on you. I'd shut down social media myself. I wouldn't have the kids on it, updates,photos, remove them. Any inheritance - forget it and happily remove that horrible chain.

Prepare exactly how you'd react if you saw them at a sports event again. Every word, every movement. I'd look online at examples of this scenario.

If you were absolutely calm and confident, they see it,they smell it,they sense it. That's when it's game over for them tbh.

I would remain totally silent to people in the community who might somehow gossip and it gets to them. Say as little as possible.

I have to play this game all the time.

I can’t really handle any kind of contact with my ex. He left me so very broken and I wanted to end my life because of our relationship. I’m not sure you can ever feel ok seeing those who are a threat to you literal existence. Whilst I know that time has passed it’s still a very real experience for me. For me it feels like standing in front of a lion, I will never be ok. It’s hard to not let it trigger your body and mind to go to places that you no longer want to and have moved on from. I would not want to visit him in a death bed but then he isn’t a parent. I think it’s a battle between what you are supposed to do and what really is empathetically right and what you can handle. A once off perhaps is a closure. As for randomly turning up. If that was my ex I would be a mess, on alert for when these random meets would happen. I think given how unwell I feel when it happens with him I’d move a million miles away for peace in my body and mind. The only way to heal and to stop being on alert is to make sure there is enough distance from the lions!

always hoped that she would go at a point where I wouldn't have to actively make a decision

If, in an ideal scenario, you wouldn't see her before she dies, then surely that's your answer?

Junebug I'd move, before your DC get any older. Tell nobody where you've gone. Start again without Creepy McCreepster lurking in the woods across the road from your house, spying on your family. One DC didn't recognise the stranger, another felt confused. Your DC were distressed, enough to make a point of telling you this happened. That's your cue to protect them. Also yes to reporting it to police, along with a specific request that your parents never be given any information about you or your DC and that you're NC with them. That might help if they ever report you "missing".

It’s interesting you liken him to a lion, because I liken my relatives to tigers on the loose. I say to my DH we might not have seen them today, but I still don’t feel safe because it’s like knowing there is a tiger on the loose walking around town, how can I feel safe?.
I think we must both feel like this because as you say they do so much damage they are a threat to your life.

Because as cave men I suppose this was our real life predator but in our reality it’s these narcs. I can’t differentiate because he was a threat to me. My body remembers.

@VWSC3 im sorry that you are dealing with this madness also, it’s very difficult. My “journey” of realisation started 5 years ago, with the first few years being LC with them and they still trampled on every boundary I put up. Now, over a year of NC and they’re still at it. My kids came home and were just playing out the back and the older child just came out with it, like, “oh ya, we forgot to tell you who we saw”.. I was shocked but they seemed ok. I have so many age appropriate chats about respect, boundaries and why we don’t have a relationship with my family but I don’t think any of us expected this, we all thought where we live would be safe. My husband thinks that this isn’t the first time he’s been hanging around, he said he felt “watched” when out playing soccer with the kids a couple of weeks back. When they start on the kids with this behaviour it’s another matter altogether, I’m going to have to take some action now because I don’t trust them at all.

@Pleaseshutthefuckupthanks for such a detailed reply. I like the virus analogy, very apt. Just when I get a few weeks peace they rear their heads again.

i agree, a reaction from me is their aim which is why I’ve never responded to the stuff sent via post, or physically posted through my door. However, when my NM turns up on my walking route I get a fright, my stomach literally drops and I struggle to walk past without saying anything. I always have glasses on and listening to a podcast so I can’t hear when she says but I’ll have to work on being able to just keep walking and not acknowledge her in any way. She’s such a sicko, I know she loves that she has this power to upset me.

i do believe they are deranged, my kids are just like possessions to her and I have dared to take them away from her, that’s how she views it. I can’t understand how she doesn’t understand that their demented actions only confirm my belief that my kids would never be safe in their company. In terms of what am I afraid of? The short answer is them. They literally scare me. As a child both were physically, mentally and emotionally abusive and when I see them the young child in me reacts. I think they’re lunatics and being around people like that is unnerving. Unfortunately, I’m a long way away from viewing them with indifference, I can’t wait for that day tbh.

there’s a part of me that’s not acknowledging the reality of who my parents are and I think that’s whats stopping me from taking the next step in protecting me and my family further. Looking back my father was always a bit of a creep, so many examples have come back to me in recent months, and I see that he still is a creep today. We have a Ring doorbell which has recorded him dropping off gifts when told not too, parking near our house waiting for my husband to leave. He’s a creep and he disgusts me.

i will definitely watch some videos on how to prepare to scenarios in advance so I’m not so stuck for words or how to react.

we will have another chat with our kids about simply leaving the green the next time he, or they, turn up. A letter or legal advice will probably be my next step. What a nightmare.

I’m sorry you are having to deal with it too. It’s such a violation, isn’t it?
I hate how entitled they are. It makes me wonder what goes through their heads that they think it’s their right to stalk. And for us, all it does is reinforce the fact that they are a danger to us.
I really would report it. Even if the police do nothing you have a paper trail. I would advise to email the police (in my area they tell you the email address when you call 101 to use at busy times). I’ve logged a couple of things my family have done. The email route gives you a solid paper trail if their behaviour escalates.

My child has a public event coming up soon and I’m anticipating that will be gatecrashed.

@SamAndAnnie thanks for your input. Moving away sounds so tempting at times, it really does but we love where we live. The kids have their sport, great schools, great friends etc I just don’t want this evil pair to take anymore good things from me. However, if this madness escalates it something we might have to consider. A police report sounds logical, I just need to work up the courage for that.

Oh no, I really feel for you with your child’s event coming up. We had the exact issue last month and thankfully they didn’t. If they had we would have ignored them, that was the plan anyway, maybe you could decide in advance that you will do the same? Can you get up and sit somewhere else, if possible? All easier said than done, I know but having some options if only in your head can be reassuring. It’s such a violation, absolutely. I feel ive been violated my whole life by these people, they’re very sick though, that’s all I know. Yes to reporting it, it looks like the right thing to do.

@junebugalice I understand everything you said.

The more I learn and acknowledge, the more scary I find my mother. My brother is more obvious but my mum really scares me still when I think what she thinks in her head. I believe they're capable of depravity and I think on things that don't sit right now.

Is moving away a possibility? I think that is a good suggestion that could bring so much peace to you. Although I appreciate it's a huge upheaval. EDIT - I saw your reply red this. Totally understandable.

With her turning up like that and him doing that - I do feel Police action is really worth considering.

You're afraid of them, of course you would be. They have each other which makes it so tough to try handle. You're not abnormal in the way they are and it's scary for people like us who feel strongly.

I understand every feeling you described.

Thank you @Pleaseshutthefuckup it’s so reassuring when other people understand. Despite the years or therapy, breath work, meditation and endless reading and videos a part of me is damaged beyond repair, unfortunately. They have taken my sense of self worth and peace since the day I was born and even though I’m so much better these days on the anxiety and panic attack front I can’t ever be who I was meant to be and that, for me, is unforgivable. It also makes me think they have to be insane to do what they did and continue to do but the struggle I have is that, intellectually I know who they are but I can’t convince that scared inner child that we have a right to peace. I won’t ever go back to any kind of relationship with them though, that is a certainty and I thank god that I’m strong and consistent on that front, despite its difficulties. I find therapy helps, especially after events like yesterday.

I go from being tough as nails to terrified and crying. This type of abuse permanently changes your entire nervous system. I believe it's a life long process and you are so far on your way now to such a better place.

People don't believe us or understand and will always downplay and minimise our experience,even in their mind. I see it with two friends who are the only people I've spoken to. They can't help that because they don't understand it. And like your nutty mother, mine is a covert performer. No one could easily believe what this woman is behind closed doors.

This adds to the feelings that completely overwhelm us. It intensifies every negative emotion and I could literally scream ' fucking believe me!'.

Therapy is the only reason I see it. 15 years with such gentle patience and I still could not consciously see it.

I'm over a year NC with sibling. But mother is the puppet master.

It sounds around similar timescales. The behaviour has ramped up my end and you're getting it too. That is a hopeless feeling sometimes.

I consciously moved doors away from my mum years ago after longstanding health crisis. I really wasn't able to see it. Now I'd love a rocket to remove her out of here.

I have purposefully distanced my child from her. But with age it becomes very difficult to keep that detachment. The fear for most of us is our child being used against us. I experience this too often now. Also, observing them doing things that we know our kids won't realise. The rage that ignites is so strong. I know we all can feel that on here.

Definitely start looking into formal action. It is a stand that says don't mess with me. I am not that child any longer. 🖕 They possibly believe you'd never do such a thing and will ' see sense' soon.

@Pleaseshutthefuckup that’s the thing, the abuse permanently alters us, not just our nervous systems but our outlook on life, our ability to make friendships, feel worthy etc etc and yes, people haven’t a clue. I’m lucky that my two closest friends are empathetic, they don’t live my experience but at least they don’t spout the, “you only get one mother” shite, so I’m lucky in that regard.

im also NC with my only sibling, again my mother is the puppet master. My sister is cut from the same cloth as my mother, total narcissist, which is sad as there’s no hope for any relationship there. I’m sorry you’re experiencing NC with your sibling, another life challenge that we could have done without. It must be very tough living so close to your NM, you must see her daily? I live in the same town and I find that awkward enough. I’m sure you have done a great job with your child, he has learned from you that to be healthy you don’t tolerate abuse, you have led by example so I’m sure he is well armoured against your NM. I understand your fears though, we know how low our parents can go so the idea of our precious kids being manipulated by those who abused us is horrific.

oh I’d say my parents are waiting for the day I “see sense”, well they can keep waiting.

@vwsc3 and @SamAndAnnie thank you for replying. As always, I feel as if I've walked into someone else's conversation and just interrupted, so really appreciate it even more than usual.

It's interesting reading a bit of what other people are discussing, reminds me what I've been "missing" and that even now, my whole brain and body is different because of my parent. The idea of living a few doors away makes me feel physically unwell. Even continents away, I'm still very aware "she's out there". It's exhausting, like being the watch guard meerkat 24/7 for life.

I think I'm confused because I have so many good memories from earlier in my life, when I was still in the web, and didn't see what was going on. It was only from about 25 that I started doing my own thing and the inner banshee was released. Never went back in her box unfortunately.

Life is particularly hard at the moment, and I'm feeling very isolated/ alone emotionally. I'm sure that's why I'm even contemplating it, plus this life long twinge that "next time might be better".

Thanks again.

@SquirrelsAreGo I've referenced the feelings slightly myself. FOG they call it; fear, obligation, guilt. This is implanted in us and takes a huge amount of work to overcome. Maybe never entirely overcome.

The abusers in our lives pull on FOG to meet their needs. It even works when they don't do anything as such - like with your mum.

As an outsider, easy to say. Yet,my immediate reaction to this is no. Don't go. Why would you go? Is there anything more to it than FOG.

Your sibling has choices. I know they're limited as a long standing victim of her himself. Yet we are all trying here to do something to help ourselves. It's therefore not on you at all to visit her for the benefit or expectations or anything your sibling needs in this regard.

I would not re ignite after the detachment you've started to enable over time.

You owe no body any god damn explanation, including your brother.

If you feel you must go for other reasons outside of FOG then maybe be really clear in your mind how and why and as suggested keep it short and sweet.

If inheritance or a will is part of the factors ( and everyone is allowed to feel that way imo!), have you explored not receiving anything and being ok with that. I suggest that because sometimes that's the last thread that keeps us entangled a little. And of course it's not easy to just say bugger to that.

@Pleaseshutthefuckup - last issue first, when I 1st went nc, 4 years ago, I was really worried about inheritance. I don't have any of my own money, it's all in the house, disappeared in 10 years of being home, nor a way to make any (carer, kids with SEN etc), so it felt as if my one moment to get something that was just mine. I felt guilty, but at the same time, as if I was owed something I could benefit from iyswim. Meanwhile, DH said not to worry if it was about the inheritance, it's not worth the abuse, and over time I've made my peace with it, and got a small income coming in as well.

Meanwhile, my brother has confirmed that in the most recent will update everything was still equally shared, and our older cousin is executor and also scrupulously fair. Also, now she needs so much care, the chances are there won't be anything to care about anyway, so all moot.

I've done really well intellectualising this whole thing, learnt all the jargon (1st discovered the concept of narcissistic mothers 15 years ago), and know theoretically what I need to do. Which is not see her.

However, in the lead up to this trip I've been getting the dreams/ nightmares, headaches, snarly etc etc. I've been wishing for a whole different set of memories. However long you've been doing the sane thing, however good you are at creating a life that works for you, occasionally it's as if the past 25 years of work didn't happened and you just want it all to be alright. I finally cracked this morning, talking to my MIL, which was great, because I got a big hug, and she understood how difficult it must feel. I'm not sure she understands never doing to final duty meeting, but she's gracious enough to just be supportive, listen, and provide solace.

I feel stronger, both for writing it all down here, and of course post-blub.

@SquirrelsAreGo it's great you had MIL to speak to about things. Even I would have thought about 2 years ago ' that's so mean '.

In my position - I would have thought this and have when an older friend told me about her NC daughter.

Now. No way.

The reason I say this is because I believe not one person will fully validate a decision to not go. Except for people like us on here or people who fully appreciate your experience. Most don't even if well intentioned I've found.

You don't want to go. Think about saying NO.

@junebugalice I withdrew last post as it was long rambling, c bomb f bomb raging and possibly outing re my situation.

I'd love to expunge these people to a special island honestly.