May 2025 - 'We took you to STATELY HOMES' thread.

[Pleaseshutthefuckup]

Hope all ok with a new thread here. I've looked and can't find one anywhere past February.

I remember vividly the way my body shut down when my therapist first talked about a disorder in my mother's personality, because "only" circumstances didn't explain her (lack of) attunement with me, her daughter. This was the first time, after many attempts of exploration of our relationship and hints about her character, that my therapist made it clear to me that something deeper and more disturbing was and had been going on.
She then kept gently bringing it up in our sessions, but it was like my brain couldn't understand. My body though always knew.

I'm sorry if this is triggering for some, but I've sometimes wondered if my mother didn't want to have me. Her official story has always been that I was very much desired and that she had a "false alarm" before becoming pregnant with me. That as soon as I was born, she was shocked by the fact that I was whole other person, different to her (to my therapist, this seems interesting, considering...). And then, I was always the perfect baby, when that narrative suits her and makes her look good. Of course, before becoming a mother myself, and throuought all my childhood and adolescence especially, the narrative was very different: I was a difficult child, stubborn and bossy, or shy and awkward. Either way, I was never what she expected or wanted: never good enough for her. It's always interesting for me to see the blatant re-writing of history at her convenience.
Once, I can't remember the context of the conversation, she blurted very coldly to me that babies aren't persons until they are born so you can always get rid of them. The way in which she said that, the coldness and disregard with which she said those words (I was pregnant at the time) left me riled up. I did mask very well my reaction, though. We were both alone in that moment, so she said it to me.
I'm aware that wondering all this is, again, searching for an explanation of why she is the way she is with me. And an explanation that puts the focus on myself, again: on me being the reason of her disordered mind. But of course the inability to form an attachement with me, her eldest child, is a consequence, not the cause, of her dysfunction.
Regardless, I find myself going there, sometimes: to the moments where I was in her womb, my first home. The "mystery" of bonding and maternal love...

I'm sorry, this was a very random post 🙏

@FriendlyReminder absolutely. One of the first things I learnt in therapy was that people do what they do because of who they are, not because of me. That means it's one of the first things my therapist kept bringing up over and over again. It took many sessions for it to sink even a little bit.

What you mother said and how she viewed you/babies is just so telling. They don't view us as individuals with our own set of beliefs and needs.

This is an interesting post and resonated with me because my mother has said some interesting things around my conception and birth and I wonder if her feelings then have had a lifelong effect on my feelings of not being acceptable or valued.
I have an older sister and my mum failed to conceive for a few years before my brother arrived. My sister has a v complex personality and my brother is v quiet and shy and is undoubtedly autistic .
I arrived a year later and I know she was less than.pleased to be pregnant within a few months of giving birth to my brother but here is the interesting thing to me ...apparently from day one I slept through the night and was a dream baby.I rarely cried and was happy to spend hours at the end of the garden in my pram . I seemed to want to cause as little trouble as possible. Despite this my mother has consistently said how I overshadowed both my brother and sister as I was a blond haired, blue eyed toddler who was v outgoing and gregarious.
She makes reference to my sisters life long issues having started with mine (and my brothers ) births with her being somewhat pushed out as my mother was obviously v busy.
My mother has also said if she had her life again she would have stuck at 2 kids ( why the hell would you say that to child number 3 ??) .
Anyway all of this makes me reflect on why I was such a quiet well behaved baby. Is it ridiculous to believe that even as a baby without understanding I subconsciously knew to be as little trouble as possible ?
As we get more understanding of trauma that can damage even unborn children it doesn't seem so totally ridiculous.
I have spent most of my adult life trying to make my sister happy only to be badly treated and ultimately alienated which has caused me so much pain. But I realise now that she is responsible for her own happiness and my birth is not to blame for anything but I still struggle with guilt, am a terrible people pleaser who never feels good enough and fears failure and rejection.

So I think you are really onto something here.

I’m not sure whether I’d believe a word about what they say you were like as a baby. My MiL says the identical thing to me about my partner, he was a dream baby, loved to be on his own in the garden blah blah! More like you loved to put him outside and get on with what you wanted. They create this narrative to make them not look like a bad mother because if you were ok with it then it’s ok. Whether you were ok is irrelevant.

I think we know our place from a very young age. It's possible that you would have been an easy baby regardless. I think babies are 'selfish' so you would have cried had you needed more food, attention etc. but perhaps you were just easy and the circumstances meant that you then didn't really 'ask' for more and knew not to. Being easy can lead to neglect easily in that people think 'oh she seems happy enough' so you wouldn't receive the fuss and love you needed regardless.

I suppose you are aware of the scapegoating aspect in what you said. How on earth were you responsible for however your sister turned out. Typical case of parents not looking within themselves.

I had the same thought as happy farm btw. Who knows if it's true the way your mother described you as a baby. For all you know she needs to convince herself that she did a good enough job and that you were a happy baby.

I know how my mother saw me as a baby: I was a bloody nightmare and apparently I knew what I was doing. She always told the tale and looked at me in a way as if anything I did as a baby was intentional. From a young age I had a sense that I made life difficult for her even as a baby. That's how young the guilt started.

yes I know. You are so right but I couldn't see it for a long time and I was trying to keep.it brief but there were ( and still are) references to.the effect my birth had on my brother as well. He learnt to walk.within a week.of my birth and again the narrative is that I overshadowed him. and he was disadvantaged by.my arrival. He is quiet and autistic ( not diagnosed in those days of course ) . He is v clever but has dyslexia ( again unheard of then ) so struggled at school whereas I was a high flier and outgoing .
All my adult life I have carried a measure of guilt for disrupting their lives and it has led to me trying to be as independent as possible so as not to be any trouble to anyone else. I felt bad intrinsically and blamed myself which as you.say is mad because I was just a child being myself .
It has taken a lifetime to.unravel.it all . And breaking the programming on my brain left by it is so v hard.

Some babies are more challenging. My 2 year old is hard hard work, very emotional, very switched on and notices everything. She has me on the floor at times and she is a nightmare at times but I love the bones of her. They will say anything to come out good. I’m happy to look like a struggling mum with a brilliant but difficult toddler, I’m human and not perfect. They can’t admit they find it difficult so they blame you for intentionally doing something which is just natural baby temperament.

There is and never was anything wrong with any of us as babies and children. We were all individual, not connected to the perceived image of our parents. A parent is literally wired to love and protect and basically run themselves to the ground if need be for our children. These parents are wired wrong. We’ve all internalised a fault in us when we are simply born into dysfunction. I will always champion my kids, I couldn’t give a shit whether I look like a great competent mother.

This

Healing was the only choice. Is my only choice. I have been abused in ways I feel physically sick thinking about.

I forgive all mistakes going back to childhood. What I don't forgive is this never ending abuse now.

I sent my mother a text. After daily texts to pop over,which I grey rocked, I decided to spell out one particular boundary with kindness. I was terrified. I still am.

That's what this has done. I feel the reaction and sense her rage even though there was of course no response to a simple clarification of my boundary. My mother has been cruel and utterly insane in behaviour.

I am on my absolute knees with how sick I am. I had a locksmith out,changed my door lock. Asked her to return my car key.

When I was in hospital for 6 months fighting for my life with sepsis, she sold my car and drove around in the replacement vehicle. I convinced myself that was ok. I convinced myself it was ok and that when she said she asked me for permission ref the car, that she was right. The woman told my ex things like I was a moron at this time I was fighting for my life. This woman was caring for my son, drunk every night. She rarely visited me. Friends had to bring underwear etc. I was wired up to IV nutrition for months stuck in a bed.

When I came out of hospital,the first night ( I had to live with her and was so grateful she was helping). That night, we were in my son's room, she sat on the end of his bed drunk as it was bedtime and stared at me with the most unkind evil eyes. She stared and stared at me and the message was ' I don't want you here . I want your son and you to go away'.

I can't begin to tell you what I have endured. So much is so appalling, a ' normal' person would say wtf and ditch her years ago. I have blocked so much out.

I understand the trauma. Not from my mum but from my ex husband. Multiple forced pregnancies and a couple of abortions that I carry the shame for forever and I to am sick with M.E. There is nothing to say that could ever take this pain away from us. I’m sorry for all of this.

It's really destabilising to be treated like that. If course you don't have to put your mother's needs before your own here. You were the one who was sexually abused. They should all be supporting you. If they need support for their own upset they should seek it elsewhere, from friends or other family members or from a therapist. Your mother so obviously thinks your role is to facilitate her life and your sister's life. It isn't. You've done nothing wrong. I'm sorry for what happened to you.

Your children don't need a toxic person in their life. You've said yourself she's not there for them. Don't make the mistake of thinking bad friends (or in this case grandma) is better than no friends. She will psychologically harm your children. She's proved with everything she's said to you now that she hasn't magically developed the capacity to care for others and put a vulnerable person's needs before her own wants. You make yourself vulnerable disclosing abuse to someone, she could have, should have, shown kindness. Instead she metaphorically kicked you when you were down. The witness statement she gave was just so as to not look bad in front of the police, not a genuine desire to help you.

She may physically harm your children too. She's proved she's happy to cover up sexual abuse in the past, with you, which made her complicit in the abuse if it continued due to her lack of action. She has also expressed a desire that it had remained covered up in the present. She hasn't changed. If anyone says or does something inappropriate to your children, she's not going to tell you, she's going to tell them to shut up and never speak of it, even if that means the abuse continues. You can't trust her.

I also went to the police in my 40s about an adult who sexually abused me, and many others. Others, who i hadn't known of, joined the charges against him and he went to prison. It was the hardest and best thing I've done for putting to bed the shame.

The response I got from my family was 'now everyone will know what a dirty dog you were'.

@SamAndAnnie
Thank you, yes I agree it was kicking me when I am down and she has done this before, always when her own trauma is triggered by something. I know that this time she holds the view that I won’t let her have/ don’t care about her distress — she said “I know you think it’s just all about you”. I really want to correct this view, and explain I would have helped her find support if she hadn’t turned on me, but I know I need to just step away from being enmeshed.

@Dogaredabomb I’m so sorry you went through this and had to hear that. Well done for having the courage to see it through.

oh my goodness...all about you !
The irony .
I am v sorry.to hear your experiences. I would definitely keep her away from all of your family. Your children don't need her in their lives. Far from it in fact x

@Tarantella43 don't facilitate a relationship with your children and her. She will poison them,manipulate them and try turn them against you. If you have 2, she will favour one over the other one and make them compete against each other without them realising that's happening.

She's a top level abuse enabler based on your posts. I don't give two shits if you're 74 lady. All it takes is her to say this -

' I am so sorry that happened to you and I am so sorry that I couldn't be what you needed as a mum'. If she did that and addressed her personality type through therapy, then maybe. But she isn't going to do any of the above. She's too old and too far gone.

I am NC over a year with older sibling. It reduced stress dramatically and him not having access to my son has helped me grow a huge amount.( Trying to turn my son against me in awful manipulative ways).

My mum has upped it so severely as his gimp and gopher manipulating me and my son. She's totally out my loop now after this. No coming back ever for me. My son and I had the best connection together this wknd with her nowhere in the picture. It's scary but freeing and calming all at the same time when you become clear how much you want them to just bugger off.

Don't underestimate the damage to you and your kids even just on a sensory and instinctive level in her presence. Your body knows she's a wrongun. It's so tough but watch over time how much better you'll feel.

You don't even need tell her. Just make excuses every time and reduce contact so she's phased out.

Tarantella, um, your sexual abuse is all about you. And that's totally fine. It was you it happened to, not her.

If she needs support it's not on you to either provide it or help her to find it elsewhere. That's totally on her to figure out and obtain, with the help of others if necessary. By "others", I mean her friends and wider family. Her needing support doesn't involve you in any way. Not listening to the "distress" of the woman who did nothing about the abuse or booking a therapist for her or anything at all. There's billions of people in the world, she should lean on someone who isn't you.

Even if she has no friends or other family, there's organisations and charities. Obviously this situation has nothing to do with age, but I'm sure if she contacted something like Age UK and told them she needed a therapist or support group for her feelings about what happened to you, they'd be able to provide some information or point her in the right direction to find that information. So would her GP or the police. She doesn't have to know where to look for help in the first instance in order to obtain it. But I doubt she actually wants help of any kind. What she wants is to be centre of attention and get her own way, for you to never mention the abuse because that's her preferred way of dealing with the situation. She's not considering your needs or wants at all. All that matters to her, is her.

"It's all about you" isn't a viewpoint you need to explain, justify, correct, minimise or alter. It's a valid viewpoint which she needs to understand is the correct one in this situation. She needs to stop expecting to be able to put her own feelings first above everyone else's, even including the victim of the crime, every time something happens. She'll never ever understand this, so you're wasting your breath trying to explain.

Stepping away is the right course of action.

@flapjackfairy I'm a terrible people pleaser too. Although I've grown quite alot. It's such a fantastic feeling standing up for yourself and knowing it's absolutely ok.

But people will drop away when you aren't the same and stop people pleasing. Therapy has been really helpful to me. I had a great session I sourced myself with a narc abuse mental health coach.tjis week too.It kind of reaffirmed what I know. You feel so lonely in this position. I actually don't really have any family now apart from my son.

This week I've told my mum to do one in the kindest of ways. I've re enforced my NC with sibling which I initiated over a year ago. My mum was in the most insane ways forcing him into my psychological space with weird, insane manipulative behaviour.name dropping him, texting about him, making up scenarios about him to tell me,.bragging about him, watching my face for a reaction.Totally gone. That's what did it for me and I'm done.

It feels good. But I also feel scared, waiting for my punishment.

It is a lonely place. But I'd prefer that to the crap I've dealt with.

I too wanted so much happiness for my older brother and just wanted a relationship with him. That's all I ever wanted but he has behaved absolutely appallingly to me all my life since age 5 ffs. He and my mum have now got each other. Although, they don't have each other as it's so toxic and vacuous and using each other only for awful means.

Saw the in-laws for a brief while at the weekend. The misogyny was rife. I think this is a large part of why I don’t fit in. It’s my second serious relationship, I learnt my lesson first time round not to dote and please on my partner as we are equals. I own my own home and have equal financial power. His mum and bro still on the first relationship. It’s like the women wear their submission as a badge of honour. Dad made a joke about how I need their son to do jobs for me. Shut him up when I said actually I painted the garden fence and garage etc on my own as I’m quite capable. I don’t think I know my place and I’m too opinionated. I think it’s so important for women to make sure they have equal power in a relationship and will certainly raise my girls to be independent and earn their own money. The fact that you can take the relationship or leave it is very freeing. I’m here because I like him and not because I depend on him.

Good for you! I agree with you.

When you look at the narcissistic family cult, I see often that mother witch will be the matriarch leading the show. They have sons often who they enable so terribly and excuse and idolise, with no accountability. Those sons are often going to be dangerous abusive narcs who will hurt women, with mummy at the helm supporting all of it.

I agree and even though my partner is much softer than his brother he still has narc tendencies at his core. You can’t argue with him, he is right etc. I just don’t bother arguing because I know who he is and it’s pointless, not because I’m wrong but because it’s pointless. You are right about the narc mum, she’s as misogynistic as the rest…which is ridiculous because she’s a women. You can tell she hates feminism. It’s all fucked up!