Should my wife support me on this?

[OzzyGrandad]

My wife & I attended a Christmas dinner at our daughters in laws. The dinner was on the table but there were still a few items to be placed & finalized. I asked my daughters mother in law if it was ok to start, she said yes. The rest of the party sat down & I had already begun eating. (I admit was not a good move). I believe the son of the mother in law wanted to say grace before dinner & was angry that I had started. He launched into a tirade of abuse, aggressively belittling me about my bad manners. I tried to explain that his mother had said it was ok to start, but this was ignored. I remained calm for the rest of the evening & then we went home. The next day I texted the son, explained my position & informed him that I would not tolerate such verbal abuse again, hoping he would regret being so abusive & apologize. He texted back, F off D Head.
We drop our grandson at his house every weekend & he returns him on Sunday. I asked my wife, when he drops his son off, to be courteous, but to not show any of the usual friendliness, just pick him up & say goodbye until he apologizes to me for his behavior. My wife refused, saying it was between me & him. She behaved as if nothing had happened & was friendly.
My question to the readers of this story is, should my wife have agreed to just be courteous & not friendly, or was she right to ignore my feelings on the matter.

No one said he had to. What I said was he is decent enough to do the best for this man’s kid, instead of sending him into the care of strangers.

The options are not give his grandkid into care and divorce wife OR accept he was treated fairly.

As I said he can maintain his position that he was treated terribly by his grandsons father, but also keep things reasonably amicable and smooth enough to have a working relationship which should include the man paying child support his own darn child.

I did not advocate at any point for blowing things up.

I clearly stated he should “suck it up” for the good of the grandson, but I also wanted to acknowledge the father did behave very badly and seems very ungrateful and irresponsible. That’s all.

ETA:

Or he can truly love his DGS and want to do the best for the child born in unfortunate circumstances, rather than insist that the child and the world be eternally grateful that Pops stepped up

Unless I’ve missed a post I didn’t see the part where Op or anyone suggested his child and the world should be eternally grateful (although no doubt the kid will be when he’s older and realises the situation).

The child isn’t the issue here - it’s their dad who is the problem and yes he (the dad) should be massively grateful that the OP is taking care of his responsibilities as a father.
Op so far hasn’t been asking for huge thank yous, gifts or even basic child support -. he was just asking not to be sworn at aggressively.

I mean, I’m not raising anyone’s children and I still wouldn’t accept it was okay for anyone to speak to me like that for the crime of breaking table etiquette.

Gosh what an overreaction. It was one squabble, that OP started, 5 months ago. It's not an ongoing tirade of abuse.

Another over reaction.
Wife and DGS are the people who are being tormented in the situation.

I am determined to make amends for the stupid decision I made soon after the incident to not stand up for myself right there & then, and let him know that I would not accept that sort of verbal abuse by anyone, let alone the excuse for a father that he is.
DGS will see his father as usual, he will see a cordial handover. He will not see me verbally abuse his father as he has seen his father verbally abuse me.
My conscience will not allow me to let his abuse go without consequence. The consequences will not affect my GS, the same as if it were a wife handing the divorced husband her son. Cordial, not friendly. To the contrary, the GS lives in a house where such abuse is not tolerated, a good example for him.

How do you suppose you will insulate your grandson and wife from these "consequences" you threaten?

The consequences are loss of friendship from my wife & I towards the father. He is entitled to a cordial relation only. Not serious consequences, but necessary in my view. Nothing that threatens GS. In fact we are shielding GS from future abuses by his father towards me. Understand now?

How are you going to enforce this consequence? Given it is not you who has maintained the friendly relationship?

After much discussion my wife has agreed that this is the best course of action.

Of course she did. A discussion? Or you demanded she chose?

So you wore her down, and/or threatened her with either doing it your way or divorce, as you said up the thread?

Also, OP, you keep saying there will be ‘cordial’ handovers in future. ‘Cordial’ means ‘warm and friendly, heartily or strongly felt’, which I don’t think is what you mean, as it’s what you disapprove of your wife doing currently.

A reminder, you were disrespectful to the host who had spent hours preparing a meal for everyone by tucking in before they had even sat down.

Also worth noting that the child is 4. He won't connect anything you do now to something that happened months ago. All he will see is you shutting his dad out.

Well well well.
Any sympathy I had for you has long gone.
You have held on to this grudge since Christmas.
You have grinded and grinded your wife down, until she has been that ground down, she caved into your resentful side of the debate, which I imagine she has done to further keep the peace. That poor woman.

I honestly don't know why you didn't just have a word with him, like a grown-up, a few days or weeks later? Instead of all this texting and carrying on like a pompous, emotionally immature big kid.

The time frame has dragged on too long.

Why did you not ask to speak to him months ago and clear the air?
It's like you are sitting on a pedestal and waiting for an apology, but will not see the whole part that YOU played in all this?

Then you drag your wife further into it so that you feel vindicated?
Why drag it out?

I honestly feel sorry for your poor wife.

Wrong. The roast was getting cold, I asked the host if we could get started, she said yes. I began carving the meat, many guests sat down and were ready to go. Except the father who was last to sit. All normal for an informal family dinner. What is not normal (which you seem to think is insignificant) is verbally abusing a guest at the dinner table. Do you think verbally abusing a dinner guest (for any reason) is acceptable? Should there be no consequences?

It's not your conscience, it's your ego. It's bruised and you're fuming.

If you listened to your conscience, it would tell you to rise above.

The way you use the word "disrespect" is a major red flag. This is a not turf war between rival gangs.

There's a child in the middle. Was the guy unreasonable? Yes. The only way you'd have kept your head held high is by not letting it get to you.

You're really playing into his hands, you're damaging your grandson and you're making life hard for your wife.
All that because of your ego.

Did they attack you though, or just point out that you are an ignorant prick? Which from your posts here seems just to be a statement of fact.

I asked my daughter’s mother in law if it was ok to start, she said yes. The rest of the party sat down & I had already begun eating. Originally you had started eating, no mention of serving everyone.

All your saying is that you'll be civil rather than friendly. I think it's a reasonable response. I wouldn't tolerate abuse either. I'd keep contact as minimal as possible purely because you can't trust his behaviour or his mouth.

I had a similar situation recently and have gone NC. I was verbally abused by a sibling in front of my children. He was very aggressive and no one intervened. Unfortunately, you have to maintain the relationship for the sake of the child. I'm in a different position because I can say cut contact.

This is about managing family dynamics; your wife is very adept at that, so you are insulted by her lack of support because in your mind that means she is taking the other 'side'.
And you had to wear her down to bring her into line instead of learning how to be an effective adult family member from her.

Carry on feeling insulted. Your behaviour is either to be excused, minimised or ignored. You must feel justified and you must 'win' at all costs.
Google 'pyrrhic victory'.

I’m glad DW is backing you up - in the entire circumstance, I’d say a cordial ‘professional’ relationship is what you should do, yes. Very
tiring bringing up a grandchild, what a hard situation for you and DW. I can understand DW not wanting a fuss too, it sounds as though as a family your plate is always full.

I’d want a bit of distance from the dad in general and not as punishment as he himself doesn’t sound quite right, assume his mum is helping him look after the child on their weekends.

sometimes things like this happen for a reason to allow you to get things onto a more sensible footing.

I totally agree he should not have spoken to you that way .
And that your wife probably just wanted to keep things civil for gs.
But it's been months and if you bring it up with him now I doubt you will get the response you are after.
He will probably just double down on what he has said before.
Making you more angry and the weekends more awkward when you have to hand over gs .
You need to accept he isn't a very nice person and that you only see him at all for gs.
What happens if he decides to go for full custody just to spite you? If the argument continues and things get more awkward.
Especially as your grandson gets older and understands more.
I wouldn't go for any meals or social events with his family again.
Just do the handover at weekend and only say what's absolutely necessary.
That's just what many parents do when they split and one partner has been abusive.

It's not nice but you are never going to get an apology.

The incident happened at Christmas, I saw the father a week or 2 later. I had it out with him, he would not apologize, he actually threatened to assault me after I called him the same thing that he had called me, (he's 30, I'm 68) but eventually he said "It would not happen again". This was enough for my wife to forgive & forget & carry on as usual. For me it was enough to stop me from removing him from our lives altogether. His visits to my house are in fact closer to 3 weekly or monthly as sometimes my wife both picks up & drops off, or the MIL might pick up /drop off occasionally. So he has been to our house 4 or 5 times maximum since Xmas. I have kept my distance, but my wife has been more friendly. I basically bit my lip until one day she invited him inside for a coffee. After he left I explained my feelings to my wife. She initially said what many are saying on this forum, "Let it go, forget about it", (which I have tried) but I don't think that is the right thing to do. The father cannot treat people like that without consequence. My wife has agreed. There was no "grinding", we simply talked about it, & in the end she agreed with me. I appreciate you can only go by what you read in my post's, but many, (including you) seem to want to read all sorts of stuff that simply isn't true. Then try to make me out to be a bad person. Some people are I bad guess.

You got your own way, congratulations, remember when there are consequences, you continued with this madness.
I pity your DW, listening to this crap for nearly 6 months. Well done, you broke her down.
She and DGS should leave the adult men behind.

OP you want "consequences ".

You fail to realise that there were. If the incident happened as you describe, everyone would have left the table respecting the guy less, thinking what a selfish idiot ruining Christmas for everyone, and respecting you more for displaying self-control - an attractive quality.

Now the women in the room are probably just thinking oh dear, a bunch of men with their little insecure, fragile egos that need nursing. They will respect you much, much less.
Your wife is now "managing" your behaviour just like she manages the guy's.

You really have lost all your respect capital by wanting more.

OP, how many other times in your life have you needed to "have it out with" someone or dish out "consequences"?
I'm somehow doubting that this is a one off...

So he said it wouldn't happen again...and you are still dragging it out?
It just sounds like your ego has been damaged now and you can't drop it.
It was disrespectful of him. But people make mistakes.

And for the sake of your grandchild you really should think twice before bringing it back up with him.
As you have said you are 68. What happens if he gets custody of your grandchild. If you and your wife can't look after him at somepoint . What will stop him from letting you see him?