Should my wife support me on this?

[OzzyGrandad]

My wife & I attended a Christmas dinner at our daughters in laws. The dinner was on the table but there were still a few items to be placed & finalized. I asked my daughters mother in law if it was ok to start, she said yes. The rest of the party sat down & I had already begun eating. (I admit was not a good move). I believe the son of the mother in law wanted to say grace before dinner & was angry that I had started. He launched into a tirade of abuse, aggressively belittling me about my bad manners. I tried to explain that his mother had said it was ok to start, but this was ignored. I remained calm for the rest of the evening & then we went home. The next day I texted the son, explained my position & informed him that I would not tolerate such verbal abuse again, hoping he would regret being so abusive & apologize. He texted back, F off D Head.
We drop our grandson at his house every weekend & he returns him on Sunday. I asked my wife, when he drops his son off, to be courteous, but to not show any of the usual friendliness, just pick him up & say goodbye until he apologizes to me for his behavior. My wife refused, saying it was between me & him. She behaved as if nothing had happened & was friendly.
My question to the readers of this story is, should my wife have agreed to just be courteous & not friendly, or was she right to ignore my feelings on the matter.

Oh my goodness. How dare she maintain a civil relationship with her grandsons dad. Silly woman. Far more sensible to piss him off more, shove the child out the door and hope for the best.

Ozzi needs INDIVIDUAL counseling to understand that he's not the most important person here, that putting his stung pride over the well-being of his grandson is not the behavior of a mature and grounded man, and that his wife is an autonomous being who can make her own choices.

His wife has probably told him he needs to put this aside and grow up but either he's not listening or he dismisses it because he doesn't respect her.

Wife is leading the way in how things should go forward. She's the only mature one here.

I actually understand being this hungry! But maybe you could have snuck something in the kitchen then waited

Irrespective of who deserves what and who should support who, this man will NOT apologise. He is vile. You know this. You will absolutely have to let it go for the sake of your grandson and for your own peace.

And next time you post, be female. You'll get far more support.

Apart from not having the foggiest notion (even after several re-reads of your OP) of how these people are related to you or to each other, my take on the situation is that you are quite a difficult individual who doesn't pay enough attention to social niceties, leading to irritation and even anger on the part of people you socialise with.

If you're having a Christmas meal at someone's house and the table is not quite set, and people are clearly still busy with the preparations for the meal or the last minute things that people do before sitting down - popping corks, making sure there are enough serving utensils, lighting a candle or two - what you do is you ask how you can help. You do not ask if you can start eating. You do not help yourself to food and start chowing down.

At a Christmas, Easter, birthday, or other special occasion when more than just yourself and your wife are gathered, you should especially hold back until everyone is seated and the host has given the nod to begin. In this case, you really should have anticipated that there might be a grace before eating too - it's a Christian holy day after all, and all the more reason to wait.

Tearing rashers off you probably wasn't the best way to deal with your rudeness. However, you should have taken the time to reflect on the amount of anger you managed to generate and ponder whether any if it was warranted. You shouldn't have sent an irate response and you most certainly should not be trying to drag your wife into this.

She's probably as fed up of stupid men with nothing better to do with their time on a busy holiday than get on each other's nerves as the woman you asked if you could start eating. I have a vision in my head of female relatives buzzing around like scalded earwigs getting the meal and the table ready that day, with grandchildren getting under everyone's feet, and a few useless lumps of men only concerned with turkey drumsticks completely oblivious to the assistance they should have offered. They're sick of you all and the silly shenanigans that happen when people have too much time on their hands.

Do better.

Agree.

It's a huge pity the child is suffering in the middle.

Be the bigger person. This man could make things extremely difficult for the child's mother - even more difficult than they are now - if he took it into his rock filled head to do so.

You may find it hard to believe, but family courts fall over themselves facilitating relationships between deadbeat, abusive, and obnoxious men and their children, and will side with them every time they have a chance to even when the mothers of the children are great people doing their utmost to be good parents despite lack of money or emotional support.

Do not alienate this man.

You don't have to offer him friendship, but you need to tread carefully or he can and will accuse you of alienation of the child, and the people who will suffer are the innocent child and the mother. Family court judges prick up their ears when that magic word is uttered, and they take a guilty until proved innocent approach to those accused of it. It's a huge pity that you committed your thoughts to paper.

Maybe plan to be out of the house for handoffs for the foreseeable.

Support your wife.

Yes I have noticed. I am a woman. I don’t have any anger toward men. I notice a lot of toxic feminism where they hold men to different standards and refuse to take accountability for the fact that sometimes women can also be abusive and bad people. And sometimes men can be vulnerable and need support , affection, encouragement, et.

And I want to add - I hope he isn't playing you here, with an aim of taking the child out of your lives.

Think long and hard before you interact in any way with this man.

I showed my hubby this and asked his opinion. He gave it and I will jot it down as my darling hubby (MDH) reply to each statement, as follows:

OP: Hi Littlejellyuk By "lead the way" I meant I began the process of encouraging everyone to take a seat & start the meal before it got cold. Granted it is not really my task to do, but it was an informal family dinner.

MDH: wow, so the old fella just took over, like he was the head of the family then, in that lads - mum's house? Wow. NOPE.

OP: I sat near the roast & began carving the meat for everyone, the father was one of the last to sit down.

MDH: So the old fella carved the meat, like he was the head of the table and that young lad hadn't even sat down yet? What if that lad wanted to carve it? Wow that old fella is overstepping there you know.

OP: I don't recall if I had started, but by his reaction I probably had. In hindsight, I should have waited that short time until everyone was seated, but the party was not really that formal.

MDH: is that old fella trying to prove a point or what? He just ate nefore everyone? What makes him so special? Does he always try and act like he's the main man of the house? Who does he think he is?
Hold on, If your step dad did that to me queen I would be lashing him out of the house! that OP is trying to be the head of the house! He had no right to do any of that, coz it's not his bloody house! And no he wasn't being helpful, he was trying to be in charge!

OP: Either way, it certainly did not warrant being call a rude, ignorant prick in front of everyone. IMO.

MDH: nah, I'm telling you now that old fella (OP) has deffo got form for pulling that kind of shit, he's overly familiar and he's behaving like the head of the house. That lad shouldn't have flipped, but to be fair like, that old fella shouldn't have done any of that.
That silly little episode has deffo been the straw that broke the camels back.
i bet that old fella has pulled stupid shit like this before, over and over, little episodes here and there, and it's built over time, and that lad had just flipped Then, coz he'd had enough. And at chrimbo as well?!

So that's my hubby's response.

This is really insightful into the male psyche and hits probably spot on the truth.
How interesting.

The fact you have argued with everyone on this post, your wife doesn’t support you and you got an ear bashing for what feels like a small offence. Tells me everything I need to know. There is much more to this than you are letting on or maybe even realise. Why don’t you go away and do some reflection.

@Littlejellyuk I agree with everything your H said.

Ozzi overstepped, very likely not for the first time, and he got told off.

Now, out of petulance, he's threatening his wife with divorce, without a single thought about what that would mean for 4 yo DGS. So selfish.

Probably the 2nd last post about this.
Whilst it would be better to have a good friendly relationship with the father, (as it was prior to him verbally abusing me & telling me to F Off), my wife now understands why I cannot be friendly towards him anymore. She also understands that when he disrespected me, she should stand with her husband & not the abuser.
We can maintain a cordial relationship with the father for the sake of the GS, which is better than a so called friendly relationship where the past issues could quite easily flare up again.
When the father next visits to pick up his son, I will be informing him of this. I will invite him to talk with me at any time if he wishes to try to restore our relationship to it's previous status.
To the many respondents to this issue I say thank you. I also ask you to think about what you would do if someone verbally abused you or your partner in that way.
A reminder (You rude, ignorant prick, & F Off - D Head) in front of a room full of guests.

Sounds like your wife has caved again to keep the peace. I imagine life is not a bed of roses for her.

When the father next visits to pick up his son, I will be informing him of this. I will invite him to talk with me at any time if he wishes to try to restore our relationship to it's previous status.

I think over four months on this ship has sailed and, if you do this, you risk it all kicking off again. Personally I would continue to be polite but cool and just get on with it. He is going to be in your lives for a very long time.

I also ask you to think about what you would do if someone verbally abused you or your partner in that way.

Many many posters told you what they would do: put your grandson first.

I think you've been treated disgustingly.

Your daughter and her ex were drug addicts.

As a result, you pay for and care for their son, absolving the man in this story of any financial or emotional obligations.

You went to Christmas lunch and were told to get stuck in, so you did.

You were then violently sworn at.

You've done nothing wrong and if I were you I would withhold the fathers access to his child, which it seems you are legally entitled to do.

When the father next visits to pick up his son, I will be informing him of this. I will invite him to talk with me at any time if he wishes to try to restore our relationship to it's previous status.
You are determined to cause more aggravating stress.
You do you, you'll regrets it but you're to arrogant to see that it will impact on your DGS, as long as you get your own way. Childish.

And you think that a four year who appears not to have a mother who has any contact with him is best served by having his grandfather deprive him of any relationship with his father, whom he sees weekly for a day, because he’s the unfortunate pawn in a ridiculous bit of willy-waving between his grandfather and father?

From another sweary man, not really.

We can only go by what OP had posted, no one deserves verbal abuse, or any abuse for that matter.

Eating before anyone is bad manners indeed, but being verbally abusive is worse.

What you're suggesting is a very bad idea and could provoke him. Get over it for the sake of your grandson.

Exactly and the missing context is this “old fella” ie OP who is being accused of overstepping and acting like the “main man of the house” is also the one decent enough to be taking care of all this man’s (and his daughters) responsibilities.

You think a bit of patience for the man who is raising your child wouldn’t go amiss even if you feel annoyed that he didn’t follow etiquette. He sounds quite unstable and volatile. I hope he never gets like that with or in front of his son.

If only he was as passionate about raising and financially supporting his own child as he was about someone’s table manners.

So while I don’t think there’s any point pushing for an apology at this point and I think OP should suck it up for the sake of the grandson, I also feel he has been treated poorly.

OP as a PP said before - get this arrangement formalised if possible and start taking child support payments, even if you just put them all in savings for your grandson.

"OP who is being accused of overstepping and acting like the “main man of the house” is also the one decent enough to be taking care of all this man’s (and his daughters) responsibilities."

OP doesn't HAVE to look after the 4 yo DGS. He can tell social welfare to find a home for the child and wash his hands off the whole thing. Or he can divorce his wife, as he threatened, and leave her to raise the child.

Or he can truly love his DGS and want to do the best for the child born in unfortunate circumstances, rather than insist that the child and the world be eternally grateful that Pops stepped up for the kid.

Now OP's running about blowing up the hard-won peace his wife has engendered between the two families for the sake of his ego, when the father already told him he would not talk to him like that again.

This kind of fragile masculinity is exactly why we still have murderous destructive wars on this planet.

It's possible to truly love the grandson and sti not want to accept being verbally abused.

Wanting the best for his grandson also involves not accepting such behaviour as GS will grow up thinking it's normal and OK to talk like others like his dad did.

And having sex and impregnating a woman with a drug-impacted mental disability so disabling that she has been able to take no part at all in raising her child is considerably worse than either poor table manners, competitive willy -waving about who carves, or being subjected to insulting language, but while I’m perfectly prepared to see the Christmas dinner episode as a flashpoint for displaced anger between two men connected by a child conceived in very un-ideal circumstances, perhaps with someone without the capacity to consent, the OP seems unwilling to consider it in any terms other than an insult to himself. The daughter who is unable to parent her child at all because of her disability is never mentioned, and the welfare of the four year old who’s had such a difficult start in life seems to be forgotten, other than by the OP’s wife.

Your response isn't much different, the grandson won't be grateful his DGF continued this sulk, berating his DGM, putting his adult needs above the child, do you think this child hasn't noticed the atmosphere since Christmas.
The fact that OP has REFUSED to consider anyones point on the thread, proves his ego is a big problem.

Abuse turns you into a shell of a person, if OP allows it to continue, he'll soon be of no use to his GS.

Always easy to say turn the other cheek.