Should my wife support me on this?

[OzzyGrandad]

My wife & I attended a Christmas dinner at our daughters in laws. The dinner was on the table but there were still a few items to be placed & finalized. I asked my daughters mother in law if it was ok to start, she said yes. The rest of the party sat down & I had already begun eating. (I admit was not a good move). I believe the son of the mother in law wanted to say grace before dinner & was angry that I had started. He launched into a tirade of abuse, aggressively belittling me about my bad manners. I tried to explain that his mother had said it was ok to start, but this was ignored. I remained calm for the rest of the evening & then we went home. The next day I texted the son, explained my position & informed him that I would not tolerate such verbal abuse again, hoping he would regret being so abusive & apologize. He texted back, F off D Head.
We drop our grandson at his house every weekend & he returns him on Sunday. I asked my wife, when he drops his son off, to be courteous, but to not show any of the usual friendliness, just pick him up & say goodbye until he apologizes to me for his behavior. My wife refused, saying it was between me & him. She behaved as if nothing had happened & was friendly.
My question to the readers of this story is, should my wife have agreed to just be courteous & not friendly, or was she right to ignore my feelings on the matter.

Agree with Lost20211: OP your grandson's father sounds pretty awful all round.
I'd worry about his potential to 'go off' when he has sole care of a small child for periods of time, as he has shown he will blow up a) over something minor and b) will think nothing of doing it in front of others.
Seriously, some of the responses you've had here, particularly early on, are wild, but that's mumsnet - a lot of people like to be contrary on here.
I'd be upset like you, if a simple misunderstanding/mistake led to someone angrily berating me in front of others, most people would!

Maybe forget all this rubbish..instead…

1. claim the child support. Put it in a bank for your grandson (if you don’t need it to care for him currently). You are likely to be older, illness/death will be sooner for you and your wife than a child’s parents would be (sorry). He may well need that money if he loses both of you when he is still young.
2. your wife might be trying to keep the peace because she is scared the weekend childcare will disappear if the falling out gets worse. No shame in that, you’ve both stepped up to the plate already and I imagine are more tired looking after a 4 year old than a 20/30 year old would be, did not envisage becoming parents again at your age and probably need the break.
3. i too would be upset by my wife… you feel her being friendly to your grandson’s father is basically showing that she doesn’t care how rude he was to you and that your feelings matter nothing to her. I get that. Have you asked her why she still wants to be friendly rather than just cordial? A conversation between the two of you could fix this. I imagine it’s that she is putting your grandson first. My parents did something similar with my ex husband over our daughter and it really hurt me. I understand now why they did it (to keep lines of communication open and to not add any more stress that might impact their granddaughter) but it hurt at the time. I felt a bit abandoned and unloved quite frankly!
4. probably most importantly, ensure your responsibility for your grandson is legally documented. The father of the child sounds horrible and you do not want him suddenly trying for custody. You may think ‘of course my grandson needs his father in his life’ but think about this very carefully, if his temper is so bad is he acting in the same aggressive way towards your grandson?

you’ve been given a hard time on here op but chin up, try to put this behind you.

Why are you having Christmas dinner in May?

Maybe they are in Australia?

When someone calls you a rude ignorant prick at the dinner table in front of everyone, I'd say they have every right to be upset. My crime? Suggesting we start dinner before it gets cold & starting first does not warrant that. He should thank his lucky stars that I still allow his child to see him. I am very disappointed that my wife prefers to ignore what he did for the sake of peace. He needs to be the bigger man & apologize. Honestly, would you carry on as usual if he had said that to you in front of everyone?

Very good points. Please take note OP, especially of points 1 and 4.

Ive read all your posts OP and I agree with you re him trying to impress his Christian mate. People are weird. Im also curious about your relationship with this man who sounds incredibly petty and annoying. Perhaps you secretly never wish to speak to him again anyway and resent him? Either way he crossed a boundary, he should apologise, dont blame your wife for his crappy behaviour, she is just trying to maintain a relationship for the sake of the child.

Why are you eating Christmas dinner in May?

Did your grandson witness his dad doing this abuse? You should get child support from the dad and put it aside for your grandson. You don’t say how old you are but who would take care of grandson if you had an accident tomorrow?

Thank you BanditoShipman for your thoughtful & helpful response.
I have suggested to the father that he start paying money into his son's account voluntarily. or would he prefer that the child support agency handle it. He is now paying $50 weekly.
My wife is trying to keep the peace, & yes it would be more difficult if we didn't get the weekend break, but both GS's father & his Nana look forward to their time with GS & we are both confident that this would not happen. It is simply in her nature to avoid conflict, & finds it difficult to be unfriendly with anyone, but in doing so she is creating conflict with me. I say hello & goodbye & very little else to him, but she will be friendly & chat. She has expressed to me how horrible he was to me that day, but she is willing to forgive & forget, but after having tried for months I can't. It is like a wound that never healed. I simply want the father to realize how much he hurt me & understand that there are consequences for doing so.
As far as the legalities go, it is all just a consensual arrangement. The father could, if he chooses apply for custody, but I doubt he would be successful. Currently, GS has 2 loving full time carers, & he has begun school here. This is his home. His father works full time & is living with 2 x male drug addicts (one who has been to jail). I am not judging the father for this, in my experience he has been a pleasant, friendly guy & I don't believe he is a threat to GS safety. and I believe GS has a right to a relationship his father. But i cannot allow the father to treat me with such distain with no consequences. Thanks again for your advice.

The dinner was on the table & had been ready to go for a few minutes, the ladies were finalizing a few details, salt, pepper, flowers type things. I was concerned that the roast was getting cold so I asked the host can we get started, she replied "Yes get stuck in". I then sat down in the middle near the roast & began carving. Others began to sit down also. The father of my grandson was amongst the last to sit down, I may have started eating by then I'm not sure. That is when he began his tirade with "You rude ignorant pig", "How dare you start before we have said grace" etc.

Yes, my grandson was there, but he is only 4 years old, he didn't cry or anything so I don't think it affected him that much. I have asked the father to start paying $50pw into his sons account, which he is now doing. I too have concerns about Gs's welfare when we are gone. I am 69, my wife is 65. This is why I maintain a relationship with his father, which was friendly, but after calling me a rude, ignorant pig, & F Off D Head the next day, I can't in good conscious ignore that & be friendly anymore. For the sake of GS, I can be cordial until such time as he sees fit to make amends.

When I posted this I tried to make it as brief as possible, therefore I did not go into fine detail. However, people have interpreted things that did not happen. Re the dinner. The dinner was on the table & had been ready to go for a few minutes, the ladies were finalizing a few details, salt, pepper, flowers type things. I was concerned that the roast was getting cold so I asked the host can we get started, she replied "Yes get stuck in". I then sat down in the middle near the roast & began carving. Others began to sit down also. The father of my grandson was amongst the last to sit down, I may have started eating by then I'm not sure. That is when he began his tirade with "You rude ignorant pig", "How dare you start before we have said grace" etc.
My wife is a very passive type person who dislikes conflict & will easily forgive & forget in order to keep the peace. That is fine in most cases, but in this case I believe she should stand by me & send the father a message that he cannot belittle & humiliate her husband, me, and expect relations to carry on as normal. She has not done that, it is her decision & I am disappointed, it has privately damaged my relationship with her, I can't depend on her to stand by me when I need support. She has told me that her reason is that she doesn't want conflict.

RE the dinner: You’ve been told what you did was generally considered rude by most (even if a few people here wouldn’t mind) and you keep condoning it and flitting between “I was just carving” or “I may have started eating.” Did it deserve a tirade of abuse? No, absolutely not. That was ruder than your original faux pas. RE the son: He sounds like a prize idiot, but you can’t choose him, so what are you going to do? Which leads me to your wife: surely you must have known when you married her that she doesn’t like conflict?? Have you never encountered this type of issue before? As other PPs have said, it sounds like she is just trying to keep the peace for the sake of your daughter and DGS. She sounds sensible to do so. You can’t control her actions and nor should you. Suggesting to her that this has driven a wedge between you, depending on how you deliver it, could be perceived as quite manipulative and controlling as you’re then giving her an ultimatum: ‘join in with my 5-month “paddy” or I don’t know how I feel about our relationship.’ I think you would be wise to move on. Take a leaf out of your wife’s book. If this guy is as bad as he sounds, you’ll not want him having any excuses to keep you at arm’s length… for the sake of your daughter and GS.

Why did you ask to start eating knowing the table wasn’t set and not everyone had sat down?
Why couldn’t you have just waited to eat?
Was it really that difficult to just wait a few minutes longer?

Why on earth did you text him the next day
All you needed to do was say sorry at the time and sit down and stop carving.
And your still upset about it , 6 months later .
That's not normal behaviour.
It's also not normal behaviour for someone to start shouting during a meal.
I suspect your wife has not backed u up because she thinks both of you ,the dad and grandad are both utterly ridiculous and both need to get a grip and get on with caring for the child .

However one thing wasn't clear
Did the child's dad have relations with your daughter after she was disabled..did she consent to relations with him .
Because if not ,then why would you want him in your grandsons life

Name-change fail OP?

Why did the op feel the need to text the next day? He should have left it.

What? They still celebrate Christmas in December in Australia

I am somewhat stunned by people on this thread reprimanding you for terribly bad manners when you asked the host if it was ok to start.

If I have cooked and there is a bit of a delay getting to the table I make a point to actually tell people to start as I don’t want all my efforts to go cold and be ruined. I want people to enjoy it.

My children have been taught to wait but do ask and I always say yes go ahead.

This man asked permission and received it. Even if this did offend someone else they clearly didn’t have the emotional maturity to tactfully deal with the situation with good manners themselves and perhaps gently mention that on this occasion could you just hold on whilst we say Grace.

Incredibly rude and disrespectful to belittle your elder at the table plus the carer of your child and a guest for that matter.

I am unsure why the host herself did not step in and defend / calm the situation as they gave permission.

I can fully understand why your feelings are hurt as it’s humiliating to be treated like that.

Even worse to then be sent a rude text in reply. The son appears to be a nasty piece that of work.

I would be worried to about how that behaviour reflects on your grandchild.

That all said, I don’t think it’s fair you tell your wife what to do. It’s up to her to decide how to respond - whether that’s siding with you or not. It’s not right either to try and control how she continues the relationship with them.

The issue is between yourself and this man. However if I was your wife I’d personally have got up and left the table and gone home with the grandson the moment my husband was berated. I would not have tolerated abuse like that towards my husband there and then.

Im sorry this has happened to you, I would leave it for now. This other man has just shown himself for what he is. Don’t fall into the gutter with him and don’t let it cause an argument with your wife. Just tell her how you feel about it and that you are finding it difficult to have a relationship with him at present given his awful behaviour.
Leave it at for now. Be the bigger person.

Name change fail or someone on the wind up?
Of it is OP, just confirm that it's some macho willy waving contest. Arguing over chopping up the meat while the "ladies" finish cooking... pathetic.

I am also really surprised at some of the responses here. Until this thread I genuinely didn’t realise it was such a terrible disgusting thing to do, the OP did ask if he could start and it was a family meal, not a formal dinner. I honestly don’t get what the OP did wrong on that occasion.

The response of the grandson’s father, that is disgusting behaviour. But there is no way the OP will get an apology so trying to control his wife’s behaviour in order to get one is a waste of time and hugely unfair to his wife.

OP, you can't control someone else actions. Only yours. He's not going to realise, he's not going to apologise he's not going to change.
It's not fair to your wife to heal this would be behaving in a way she's not comfortable with, you really do need to find a way to move on. Keep being civil only, but I suggest counselling to understand why this has caused such a deep wound and why your wife validation of your feelings when it happened wasn't enough why you need her to be performatively behaving in a way that will make the relationship worse (for your grandson)
You really need to work on letting this go, be it therepy, or something else
Time to move on for yourself and your grandson.

@OzzyGrandad Well, to say that to you is extremely insulting and I would certainly expect my spouse to have my back in that situation. And I think him saying "How dare you start before we have said grace" is utterly hypocritical when he is not in the habit of saying grace before meals (and was likely showing off to his religious friend).
I wonder if your wife realises the damage she's doing to your relationship with her lack of support? 🤔

I agree with everything you write, but like OP, it wouldn't change the way I feel.
I wonder how OP's wife would be feeling if she had been the one to be insulted?

No, your wife should not indulge you in this ridiculous attention-seeking vendetta - you have a child to consider and should be concentrating on him and his best interests. Grow up