Should my wife support me on this?

[OzzyGrandad]

My wife & I attended a Christmas dinner at our daughters in laws. The dinner was on the table but there were still a few items to be placed & finalized. I asked my daughters mother in law if it was ok to start, she said yes. The rest of the party sat down & I had already begun eating. (I admit was not a good move). I believe the son of the mother in law wanted to say grace before dinner & was angry that I had started. He launched into a tirade of abuse, aggressively belittling me about my bad manners. I tried to explain that his mother had said it was ok to start, but this was ignored. I remained calm for the rest of the evening & then we went home. The next day I texted the son, explained my position & informed him that I would not tolerate such verbal abuse again, hoping he would regret being so abusive & apologize. He texted back, F off D Head.
We drop our grandson at his house every weekend & he returns him on Sunday. I asked my wife, when he drops his son off, to be courteous, but to not show any of the usual friendliness, just pick him up & say goodbye until he apologizes to me for his behavior. My wife refused, saying it was between me & him. She behaved as if nothing had happened & was friendly.
My question to the readers of this story is, should my wife have agreed to just be courteous & not friendly, or was she right to ignore my feelings on the matter.

I completely agree. This has been happening for 5 months. He needs to move forward, accept he's not going to get an apology and focus on raising his gs.

It's really quite difficult nowadays to change your name mid-thread on MN. I assume you must have logged out and come back in using a different account. Seems an odd amount of trouble to take?

This is not about your feelings, support your wife in supporting her DGS even if that means swallowing your pride.
Let it go, for your DGS.
Both men are acting like teenagers sulking.

Indeed. You would need two email accounts to do this, I believe?

YADNBU
(You are definitely not being unreasonable).

I commend you for being cordial to him after his disrespectful and unhinged display in front of everyone (and you should be for the sake of your grandson).

Sorry, I haven’t read the full thread; have you asked your wife why she won’t support you? There could be a reason, eg. She doesn’t want to cause waves, in case he stops seeing your grandson.

I can sympathise, in the past my DH hasn’t supported me, simply because, as he put it, he himself has no gripe with the person, as they’ve never done anything to him.

It’s a bitter pill to swallow, but time is a good healer.

Why are you asking?

You are convinced that you're right

To be fair while OP sounds like he made an error at the meal the kid's father sounds like a complete and utter arsehole. I find someone who is rude and abusive far worse than someone eating before they should.

She doesn’t have to support you. You could have waited to eat like everyone else. You were rude.

Also don’t tell your wife how to act with other people.

What is the crux of the matter? Is it that the guy started eating before everyone else? I don't think it is, it's been established that it was a faux pas and (I think) he's apologised. There's no need for 14 pages telling him he's out of order. He knows that.

People are using that to gloss over the appalling attitude of the OP's son in law, spectacularly missing the point. They're not both as bad as each other.

The wife is piggy in the middle.

@PinkSparklyPussyCat
This has nailed it.

The kids father sounds like a complete arsehole.

What you did really didn’t deserve an abusive and aggressive showdown in any shape or form.

The crux of the matter is that OP wants his wife act coldly towards this man forever (as he is obviously never going to apologise). She doesn't want to rock the boat which I understand in what is obviously a very difficult situation, which up until Christmas seemed to be working out generally OK. They want this man in their grandson's life. She didn't dismiss him but agreed with OP that the behaviour was shocking as did others. OP has also stated that his wife thinks I should just put up with it and say nothing but he did say something at the time and the next day (and "SIL" responded) - probably in her mind they have had it out. It's not ideal, the "SIL" was incredibly and unnecessarily rude, but IMO OP should look at the bigger picture, put his grandson first and give her a break. They have taken on a lot (I wonder how much she does personally?). It might have helped if OP had apologised himself (for his much lesser 'crime') rather than demand an apology - maybe he couldn't bring himself to do that? I do wonder if there is some backstory to "SIL's" OTT reactions to OP? Not belittling OP's reactions to "SIL's" behaviour - he acted like a knb. I'd imagine that OP's courteous but not friendly* attitude towards him affects him not a jot - doubt he cares or possibly has even noticed.

I also wonder if OP's wife acted a bit cooler immediately afterwards, but now, over four months later, she's thawed and been friendly and OP can't forgive her for it?

Z is the English spelling. It's the variant used by both Oxford and Cambridge university presses. I tend to use it myself.

You've asked him for an apology months ago. You've had your answer. Your wife is not going to treat him with the cold distance that you demand. Her response is that, for the sake of peace, she prefers to ignore what he did. Therefore you've had your answer. And given both you and your DGC's father have behaved like a pair of testosterone-fueled adolescents, the claim of 'bigger man' is hardly applicable in either case.

You are not in control of what others do. They are people, not puppets whose strings you can pull so that they dance at your behest. You can control only your own behaviour, not that of others.

They have both said 'No'. When people answer 'No', then 'No' is precisely what you need to hear.

Honestly you're on Mumsnet, you've asked if your wife is in the wrong. No one will ever agree with you.
Someone on here the other day admitted that she physically and verbally attacks her partner when she's upset the overwhelming response was that he must do something to deserve it.

For what it's worth - I agree with you, she should stand up for you!

I'd assumed American too for the same reason. Plus under @OzziGrandad (which sounds the same as the OP, similar grammar and spelling) says the SIL pays $50 a week. However, F off D Head is very British 😄

Apologize is American English and apologise is British English, but both are used in the UK. I'm English and use 's' spellings mainly

Heaven forbid a woman not put herself in the middle of a squabble between 2 grown men. How dare she not take responsibility for solving all his self inflicted problems.

Agreed.
He hasn't apologised and won't apologise but instead of accepting that, the OP is badgering his DW to put the relationship with DGC at risk.
Yes, he was wrong to be verbally abusive, you can either continue seething on that, allowing it damage your marriage or see the big picture.
The custody arrangement could be impacted if it effects the child's emotional well-being, so get a grip, cope on.

It's got nothing to do with the wife being femaie @CosyLemur, context is everything: there is a child in the centre of this, it's a difficult situation but they have been bimbling along OK up to now, OP didn't apologise either and it's over four months later. No the OP didn't deserve to be berated for his faux pas and yes he has every reason to be hurt and act cool around SIL. But he seems more annoyed at his wife than his SIL. He seems to expect her to give him the cold shoulder forever more. The grandson is four, they have at least 12 years more contact with SIL, and his mother, probably considerably longer. I think the wife, and most of the posters on here, are just using their commonsense.

OP, having read your updates, I think the real question is: why are you allowing this vile man anywhere near your grandson? You stated that there's no custodial order in place, so why do it? What possible benefit could your grandson be getting?

Here's something else to think about. This bloke has zero respect for you. In fact, he probably sees you as a loser. A joke. If he can treat you - father of the woman he violated, and the man who's been raising his child - with such utter contempt and aggression, chances are that when your grandson gets a bit older, he's going to pick up on that.

And at that point, two things will probably happen. Your grandson will get upset and defend you. In which case, his dad will probably turn his anger and contempt towards your grandson. Or worse - your grandson, in an attempt to win his dad's approval, will start treating you the same.

I posted the original post as OzzyGrandad, then an hour or two later when I tried to reply to a post, MN asked me to create a user name before allowing me to reply. I wrote the original name (above) but MN said that the name was already in use, so I changed the y to i & it was accepted. I also found it odd.

I am Australian, I've lived here since I was 12 y old. The reason for the z's is that the PC prefers z's, otherwise I get the red spelling error on screen.

Thankyou PlaygroundSusie, For your thoughtful response to my post. I had thought that the father & I were friends, he is rough around the edges but seemed ok. But you have given me something to think about that I had not considered before. You have also shown me a glimpse into a possible future.
Whilst I don't really want to deny my GS his right to a relationship with his father, I think he must face consequences for his disrespectful actions. A week or two after the incident, I had it out with him face to face. He did not sincerely apologize, but he did say that it would never happen again. For the sake of peace I took that as a small apology, but have never felt comfortable with it & kept interactions with him to a minimum. He & my wife however have increasingly become more friendly. The subject came up (out of the blue) between my wife & myself, recently & it is causing distress within our marriage now. Perhaps it is a male pride thing, but I find it very difficult to watch this man who disrespected me in so many ways, and my wife being best buddies. It really is now getting to be a case of it is either him or me, because I cannot live with it. I cannot respect myself if I do. I can live with a cordial exchange at the weekends which GS would witness & need not suspect animosity. I can only hope that the father reflects & understands & finds a way to make amends. Once again thank you for response.

@Allotmentblackfly a somewhat biased comment about southerners - I’m a southerner s and think the manners around the food ridiculous as I explain in my post. Try and check your bias! You must have a chip on your shoulder. I also have an allotment and currently dreadful black fly !

@OzzyGrandad I hadn’t realised you were still upset after 5 months! I’d assumed it had just happened a few weeks ago. Whilst I can imagine you ‘wish’ he would apologise he clearly doesn’t believe his behaviour warrants that. It sounds like you are struggling with how you feel at being insulted. Unfortunate life is unfair. People disappoint us and don’t always realise they are in the wrong- or perhaps they don’t want to lose face Whatever the reason it’s a sign of the SILs immature. You hanging on to this at the expense of your own marriage and falling out with your wife is allowing his effect to damage you further than a few nasty words. Try to take some comfort in the fact that his insults are really about him not you. You cannot change or control anyone else behaviour . You can only control your own. You cannot help having the feelings that you do either- they are your feelings and very valid. But you have a choice in terms of how you respond to those feelings and how much you let them infest your life. Learning to forgive someone without an apology is the biggest thing you can do. For your own sake not for his. Forgiving him doesn’t mean you condone his behaviour but it’s a way of letting it go so it stops interfering with your life. End of day the man hasn’t murdered anyone- he was just highly rude and offensive. If it wasn’t you it would be someone else. You have taken this so personally that I would suspect this is your ego now talking. If you are like this in other areas of your life then I do think you need some professional help. As it’s not a mature way to handle conflict either and your are in a position of responsibility with your grandson and don’t want to end up passing this somewhat overbearing trait onto him.

I have read all your posts under both usernames, and am still struggling to comprehend why you’re focusing on a macho wrangle over Christmas dinner.

You say this man impregnated a daughter you describe as ‘disabled’, whom you say had some form of reaction to drug use that has left her permanently impaired to the extent that she appears to have taken no hand in the raising of her now four-year old, who has been in your care from birth. Assuming the drug episode that caused her mental illness/disability must have predated the pregnancy, if you describing him as having ‘had sex with my disabled daughter’, and her son has been in your care since birth, did this man have sex with someone who didn’t have the capacity to consent?

I can only conclude that your anger about Christmas is displaced anger about what he did to your daughter, and your sadness at their son having no real relationship with either parent. I mean, it’s a horrible, horrible situation, but wouldn’t it be better for you to explore what’s really going on in your head about this, and to centre your grandson’s welfare? Therapy would help, because it sounds like an appallingly difficult situation.

Thankyou AngelicKaty for your kind words.
TinyFlamingo thank you for your interest in my problem. Whilst I don't really want to deny my GS his right to a relationship with his father, I think the father must face consequences for his disrespectful actions. A week or two after the incident, I had it out with him face to face. He did not sincerely apologize, but he did say that it would never happen again. For the sake of peace I took that as a small apology, but have never felt comfortable with it & kept interactions with him to a minimum.
He & my wife however have increasingly become more friendly. This subject came up between my wife & myself recently, & it is causing distress within our marriage now. Perhaps it is a male pride thing, but I find it very difficult to watch this man who disrespected me, being best buddies with my wife, (all whilst not paying child support for a child that I/we are raising for him). It really is now getting to be a case of it is either him or me. My wife must face that choice because I cannot live with it. I cannot respect myself if I do. I can live with a cordial exchange with the father at the weekends which GS would witness & need not suspect animosity. I can only hope that the father reflects & understands & finds a way to make amends.
I realize that my demands may lead to divorce, but staying in the marriage would be worse in my mind, I would never be comfortable.