Is he with me for the wrong reasons?

[ComingFromTheSamePlace]

I've been with my partner for around 3 years.

He's told me I'm 'everything' he's ever wanted. We're both older (50 and 61).

Except that isn't true because I don't possess any of the actual qualities/features of women he's told me finds attractive or sexually appealing.

In fact, the only thing I'm confident he likes about me is that I've challenged some of his thinking and he now sees the world differently in some respects.

Like a university lecturer might challenge or change the way a student thinks.

But that doesn't really inspire physical attraction. I feel he is with me because his life is intellectually richer with me in it but that's about all.

Does it matter?

You're overthinking this OP. My "type" is tall and skinny and most of my partners have looked that way. But I did have a relationship with a man who was the opposite - shorter and more muscular - and I did find him sexy while we were together. Attraction doesn't always follow rules!

I also agree with pp that being with someone for their mind / personality rather than their looks should surely be the "right" reason not the "wrong" reason as you describe it? It's a far less shallow reason!

i think you need to work on your self esteem before it ruins a good relationship. Maybe your negging ex has affected you worse than you thought?

I don't really go out anymore because of it.

That’s terrible, OP. You’re letting this really drag you down. I agree with SilverButton, it sounds as if your ex has hurt you more than you think. Why not try some counselling to raise your self-esteem?

category12 and AtlasPine

I stopped initiating sex a couple of years ago. I used to but there were a few times when I could tell he wasn't really into it but went along with it for me and it wasn't great for either of us.

So I decided to wait for him to initiate it.

He does sometimes but I feel so unattractive and undesirable now that I don't really want to. I don't really see myself as a sexual.person anymore.

There are times when he's initiated foreplay, I suppose, earlier on in the day. In a 'it all starts in the mind' mind of way - pays occasional compliments or flirts a bit. But always at times when nothing could happen then. But then he'll get his phone out or stay up when I go to bed to watch a film.

He has often said that comments about other women or suggestions that I dress like another woman he finds attractive are 'jokes' or lighthearted throwaway comments that didn't mean anything. So I've assumed that anything he says to/about me is also a joke or a lighthearted throwaway comment. I don't take it seriously and brush it off because I don't believe it anymore.

I don't really understand how telling me another woman is beautiful or sexy is irrelevant and meaningless but saying the same to me isn't. Or how I'm supposed to not take one seriously but believe the other.

As I said, he doesn't really do it anymore. When he stopped commenting on other women he also stopped complimenting me.

It just feels like sex, sexual attraction and desire has just left the building.

I'm not an idiot though. I know he has sexual thoughts and desire, I just don't think they're directed at me. And when it is, I think it's more because I'm the warm body that's there and not because he's attracted to me.

Honestly, OP, this sounds as if you have significant self-esteem issues. Therapy? Obviously, end the relationship if it is the major contributing factor here, but it sounds more deep-rooted than that.

He doesn't really do it very often since I told him it upset me but it was more like [this quality] is really sexy or "I've always found X women really attractive".

I can’t imagine a scenario where my dh would say these things.
He might comment that someone celebrity is attractive if we are talking about celebrities and their qualities. But in the same conversation he will be saying that he doesn’t find some other celebrity that I may think is attractive as being attractive at all.

he doesn’t ever ever say he thinks someone else is sexy. That’s odd

OP, I think your feelings are valid and based on something real that is happening between you. I’m not dismissing them. I don’t think he was right to comment on women’s attractiveness like he did in the past, it feels inappropriate to me. I think you said he looks at other women he finds attractive when he’s out with you. If so, that’s really rude and he shouldn’t. I wouldn’t have put up with that in a partner. Out of respect for my partner, if a very handsome man walked past me when I was out with my DP, I don’t look, because he may notice it and feel uncomfortable, so I just wouldn’t, even though I might if I was alone.

With all due respect OP, fuck this! He's 11 years older, yes? Please, please don't accidentally become a nurse/carer eventually, to this man who isn't even fundamentally attracted to you.

You have so much more life left... Don't waste it ❤️

I don't know why he did it or why he thought inwould be interested in who and what he finds sexy. I've never said anything like that to him.

I suppose as an example.

He told me once that he finds, say, the Welsh accent really sexy. About 6 months after we got together (when it bothered me less because I still believed he found me attractive then) we went away for a weekend to a festival.

I couldn't get the Friday off work so he went a day earlier than me with friends and I met him there.

The first day, he just got chatting to a Welsh woman at a bar. Because he was on his own, she invited him to join her and her friends for a bit so he did before watching a band and going to find his friends.

But even then I was aware that he'd spent an hour or so with a group of women he'd have found 'sexy' by virtue of nothing more than their accents. Something I don't have.

Then I arrived and he spent most of the rest of the weekend with just me and I remember thinking how much more fun he'd have had if he'd been able to just spend the time with them or flitting between groups of people than just being with boring me.

I don't possess any of the qualities he finds 'sexy'.

I don't think it would bother me as much if I felt I was attractive to him or that comments he made to me weren't jokes.

If I felt that he was attracted to those things in other women but he was attracted to something in me.

But being considered intellectually intelligent doesn't feel like much of a win tbh.

I think you said he looks at other women he finds attractive when he’s out with you.

He 'notices' them. He doesn't gawp or anything but I'm also aware enough to know who he would find attractive.

We went to a small, local gig and said he really liked one of the bands beforehand. I was surprised when I heard them because I thought they were awful and played a style of music with a vocal style he dislikes. So lots of reasons to follow me out of the bar on a warm summer's evening. But he stayed and watched the whole set.

He said it was to 'show support' (it was a small gig at an intimate venue) and his band was also playing but he's not usually bothered about supporting bands he doesn't like. But the female singer was very attractive. He complained about them and how bad they were afterwards but still chose to stay.

It's things like that. Not huge things but lots of little things.

Gently, OP, I think you’re actively seeking for evidence of his attraction to other women, and constructing entire edifices of self-disgust on the flimsiest of bases. You’re way too concerned with what he thinks, how much more fun he might be having with sexily-accented Welsh women, or why he might have stayed to see a support set. He said or did nothing whatsoever to suggest he was attracted to the women at the festival or the singer in the band — that’s you constructing your own narrative. I find many Scottish accents sexy, but that doesn’t mean I will be violently sexually attracted to a random group of Scottish men I meet by chance. And you sound as if you set up the ‘choice’ between following you out of the bar or staying to see the support act, and decided that being attracted to the singer is the reason he didn’t leave.

This is no way to live, OP.

Why are you with him?

It's all about what you think he thinks - what about you?

Is this really the way you want to live?

If you don't think he wants you and would prefer someone else, then leave him.

Being with someone at the cost of your self esteem and dignity, is really not worth it.

I always used to joke with my lovely late dad about his ideal ladies - they were tall, blonde, broad shoulders and very deep voices. Kathleen Turner, Charlize Theron, Kirstie Alley.
My mum was a tiny, tiny redhead. Not an ounce of fat on her. Teeny shoulders. She was like a little bird. He was absolutely in awe of her. She was hugely intelligent and adventurous and independent. Those were the qualities he loved.
I think firstly at 50 your hormones (or lack of them) are playing havoc with your wellbeing. My thought processes went out of the window during perimenopause.
Secondly, you are carrying issues from your previous relationships which you need to actress. They aren’t your partner’s problems to solve.
Thirdly, your lack of physical connection does need addressing and both of you need to work on that.
Finally, his age might also be affecting him but you won’t know unless you talk.
The fact that he admires you greatly is fantastic.
Take that as a plus… and get talking!

I think you're feeling unattractive because of the lack of sex. I can empathise, as I am in a similar situation. In my case, DH who is 52, finds it hard to maintain an erection, and I think it's easier to just not try anything instead of trying and failing. But he's taking supplements and at least trying to address the situation.

I really think you need to sort out the sex thing urgently. Try testosterone supplements or Tadalafil (similar to viagra, but you take one every morning).

He wouldn't be with you if he didn't find you attractive. He's just being lazy on the sex thing, and of course that's making you feel undesirable.

If he is "noticing" other women on nights out, that's quite manipulative - why is he making it obvious? So you think he's a catch? I suspect he's doing this to make up for the lack of action on his part.

What does he say when you talk about sex/lack of?

Yes, I can see why it looks like that.

I suppose I did expect him to leave the bar. Not because I expected him to follow me but because he was sitting there saying how bad they were and how he wasnt enjpying it amd they were much better the last time he'd seen them. Normally, when we're not enjoying a band and one says we're going outside the other usually goes too. It's not often we disagree on something like that.

I didn't ask him to come out with me I just thought he would because that's what we usually do.

It's not that I'm looking for proof he finds other women attractive really. More that I'm noticing that he doesn't find me attractive.

What does he say when you talk about sex/lack of?

We don't talk about it.

I used to. I'm quite open in that respect but he never gave anything back. It all felt a bit one sided and he wouldn't tell me what he wanted or what he liked but he didn't seem to be that interested in what I was doing either.

The lack of sex is like the elephant in the room really.

We went out last night with a friend of mine and her partner. They've been together for a similar amount of time and the difference was startling. They weren't all over each other but there was definite affection and love there. He put his hand on my knee for a couple of seconds a few times but there was no sense of us being 'together' other than we were sat next to each other.

I don't even initiate that anymore because I don't know if it's wanted or not. I just wait for him to do it and then feel awkward.

So why stay in a relationship that is making you unhappy and feel rotten about yourself?

Well that's always the question isn't it?

I hope I'm wrong. Day to day life is easy. We get on well and have similar interests.

If I can just accept and not be bothered by the fact he doesn't seem to find me attractive, maybe it'll be ok.

I don't know.

I know it sound pathetic.

@ComingFromTheSamePlace honestly - what do you get from this relationship? Joy, pleasure, companionship, ‘friendship’? Cos reading your posts it sound absolutely miserable. No sex, no intimacy, just a maelstrom of ‘I’m not fill-in-the-blanks enough for him. He thinks this about me. He fancies lots of other women different to me. I have nothing to offer him but my intellect.’
Why are you with him? What’s in this FOR YOU? From what you’ve said you’d be a whole lot happier without him, maybe find out why your self esteem is subterranean, and move on to a more cheerful, less worried, life.

I was in a relationship a bit like this OP— I felt like my partner’s view of other women was always in my face, even though he would say it was not like that. He gravitated towards attractive women like your dp. I didn’t like it. I felt he was still on the lookout in some way.

Now I’m with a different guy and the feeling is totally different. I was almost shocked to find he doesn’t do that. It’s not in his nature, and I’m much happier.

Any partner of mine would never have a reason to think they weren't my type, because I'd never say or imply it.

I wonder if he's just a less bad version of your ex?

Do you think he's a good man deep down, or could he be deliberately keeping you on the back foot? Could be worth relationship counselling if he's usually kind to you other than this.

But it's not OK, is it?

You're unhappy and your sense of self-worth seems to be going down the toilet.

It'll just grind on, slowly chipping away at you.

You need to be brave and actually have a conversation about the lack of sex and how undesirable you feel. And either come up with a plan to improve things, like therapy, or bring it to a head where it ends.

If I can just accept and not be bothered by the fact he doesn't seem to find me attractive, maybe it'll be ok.

Why do you deserve so little?

But why would you hang about in an unhappy relationship, trying to train yourself not to mind something that really bothers you?

No, it's not OK. But it's also not unhappy.

I was married for 12 years and that ended nearly 15 years ago. He was critical of me because I wasn't attractive or 'sexy' enough. But he really liked the fact I was very intelligent. We almost never had sex (averaged to less than once a year) because he didn't fancy me but we would stay up late into the night talking, debating and discussing everything - religion, philosophy, women's rights, politics, literature, films etc. We rarely clashed in our thinking so there was little in the way of conflict but we really enjoyed exploring ideas. We enjoyed each other's company generally but he wasn't physically attracted to me. The lack of sex wasn't even an issue really. I had no idea if he sought it elsewhere or how he met his needs. But it didn't really matter because it wasn't part of our relationship.

After my marriage broke down, I dated a little bit here and there and had some good dates but didn't really meet anyone I could converse with on that level so no one really stuck.

The more recent ex was someone I was attracted to physically and intellectually but, again, he was very critical of me. Sometimes directly but always indirectly in that he would tell me what he found attractive and desirable in other women and highlighted qualities I just don't and could never possess. He was very dismissive of me. He was threatened by my intelligence and a couple of his friends told me they thought he was too. In his eyes, women were there to look good and that's all. And I didn't match up. I dumped him.

When I met my partner, he just seemed so different. I believed he found me attractive on every level - personality wise, intellectually and physically.

He's a good partner in many senses. He's supportive of me and encourages me, he trusts me, he'd never stand in my way, he has researched and read around topics I'm interested in because he's also become interested in them, he does more than 50% of stuff around the house and carries the majority of the mental load and he gets up for work before me and brings me a coffee every morning.

He's invested in the relationship but, despite all of that, he doesn't fancy me or see me in 'that way'. He did tell me this once in a particularly candid conversation.

He doesn't criticise me directly but it's the same indirect comments I've heard before, the same 'suggestions' I've heard before. So he'd never tell me to wear more make up, or lose weight, or to be different. But there have been the comments about others where my 'lack' is apparent.

I think I'm finding it hard to get my head around the fact that I believed something that now seems ridiculous. I used to walk around naked quite happily in the knowledge that I wasn't perfect but the belief that he still found me attractive and I was confident sexually but now we rarely have sex and I feel awkward when we do and I have no idea the last time he actually saw me standing naked or even topless. or whether he really cares. My feeling is that, if he wants to see tits or a naked woman, he knows where he can easily find far better examples than me whenever he wants. I don't want to exist in his head alongside those images and be found lacking.

I feel ashamed and embarrassed that this has happened again and a bit of a fool for believing I was attractive to him.

I know I've been focused on him and what I think he thinks of me but that's because that underpins how I'm feeling.

He tells me he loves me everyday and I believe him.but I want to feel desired and wanted and attractive too and I don't. but I'd be giving up a lot of really good stuff with him for the increasingly unlikely (at my age) chance that someone might be everything he is and also fancy me!

We laugh together all the time, we have loads in common and shared interests. We enjoy each others company and get on really well. We complement each other. It's like living with my best friend.

Only I wouldn't care that my best friend didn't fancy me!