Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD/ND: support thread 15

[BustyLaRoux]

New thread.
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This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND ourselves, very many of us have ND children. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.
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It's complicated and it's emotional.
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The old thread is here.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5245372-married-to-someone-with-aspergersasdnd-support-thread-14?page=39&reply=143014416

I dint call it a fault because I dint find it helpful.

Just like I avoid blame and blaming the other person because I still feel rubbish afterwards.

But that’s just me!

I'm so sorry guys, I joined this thread and I've been absolutely terrible at keeping up with it. @CinnamonTart I hope you're ok, it sounds like you've been through a right ordeal. I plan to spend more time later catching up and trying to respond to people, and being fairly new to the thread hopefully get to know some of you and your situations a bit better.

Just for now I wondered if anyone has any holiday advice? DH and I had a horrendous holiday abroad with the children recently, where he was just moody and grumpy a lot, constantly negative, and getting angry with the kids all the time.
He constantly tells them off, and he gets so triggered by them crying that he tells them off for crying too or ends up telling them to shut up and then making them cry more. He's trying to be better with this, but half way through another holiday and it's turning sour again already with him just being so controlling and awful to the kids today - just not letting them be kids, get messy in the sand, spilling their strawberries by accident and they got shouted at.

I just can't take it any more. I want to talk to him tonight and set some strategies up as I know he is aware he needs control and his behaviour is part of this - but it's not acceptable to me and I can't watch the children be treated like this.

He's getting counselling which has helped him massively, but I dread each and every holiday and I wonder if anyone has found anything to be helpful for ASD on holiday? Or parenting strategies that you've agreed on that have helped?

We plan to talk about this in relationship counselling, but I don't want to start until he's finished his individual counselling.

Sorry that was so long. I feel awful as I've not been on here or responded much yet, but I'm in the thick of it and currently wondering if it's a stupid idea to just leave the holiday early and take the kids with me just to have some space from him.

I suppose in my case it’s difficult. A parent is at fault for not adapting to their child’s needs, it’s not the childs job to change their needs to match the parent.

@Catssitonhats oh gosh your poor kids. I really think it’s fine to insist on couples counselling any time you like. He can continue his individual alongside. Our marriage counsellor said that would be fine / a good thing.

We too have a history of hideous holidays. Everything from being mocked and being accused of assuming the worst and being negative when I brought DS’s spare glasses in cabin luggage - only for DS to SOMEHOW get his specs flushed down the airplane toilet?!!
But he wouldn’t speak to me, would roll his eyes the whole time and was just impossible.

I called him out on it (and silent weekends) in couples counselling just before we went on hols at easter and he was completely different. Best hols we’ve had as a family.

I’m not sure how to do it during a hols though - my DH will only hear things from a 3rd party, not me.

Thank you, it's actually really reassuring to hear that couples counselling helped the behaviour on holiday. Since our last hols I've been dreading this one, and I'm really worried as we go away with friends in summer (sharing a villa) and I'm worried I'll be embarrassed by his behaviour, or worse our friends won't like us any more if they see how he gets with the kids. On the other hand, friends could ease the atmosphere, and the parenting strain - so it could be better. I just don't know!

I think I will ask for the relationship counselling when we get back. It was me that had said to wait, as we separated earlier in the year and I'd told him I wasn't willing to even think about working on "us" until he'd sorted out some issues of his own. He's been doing that so I guess it would be ok to start on us. The parenting stuff is what split us up in the first place, we are pages apart - so I think we would do well to really dig deep into that.

What changed with the next holiday after the counselling? Did the counsellor give you helpful things to consider specifically around those issues, or was it just the counselling in general that helped? I do sometimes think it's just how he is, but behaviour can be changed sometimes even if it's not the default.

I think it was literally me saying in front of the counsellor - I hate weekends and holidays because of X and I’m dreading going away next week.

He loves the counsellor. If I said it to him directly it would have caused a fight. But as it was in front of the counsellor, it was like it held him accountable and he rose to the occasion.

Re your last para, it’s no bad idea, my wife and kids go away each year and I stay here.

yes, sounds weird I know, but in reality she has a holiday with the kids (her special interest) and I have a holiday from Asperger’s so I get a nice break as well.

works both ways 👍

I’m going away wo dh too. And have always done so. Except I’ve been going with the dcs, not on my iwn 😁😁

When the dcs were little, the hols we had as a family were irganised aroubd dh agd his special interests. Nothing else woukd have ever worked. Too stressful fur everyone really.

@Catssitonhats - DH used to be really bad on first day of holidays. I think we came to combined realisation of some of what set him off and took steps to mitigate against. For example, I usually now spend £30 or so to get is security fast passes as he'd often get stressed at that point, and we often book somewhere for dinner on our first night so we don't end up walking in circles looking for somewhere. I think be also just made a effort to chill out about things.

Can you maybe talk about specific things that seem to trigger him and if anything can be done to lessen the strain?

Do you go wo for all holidays or just some of them? I've been thinking a lot about this lately too. Tbh I think I would be way more relaxed with the DC on my own despite having to solo parent. I do a lot anyway as he works long hours / away a lot.
@Apex3 and maybe I'll send him away with them on his own too!
@Echobelly I purposely booked the same cottage we stayed in last year for this holiday to make things less stressful and more familiar. Tbh this has definitely helped, and it actually helped me with my pre hol packing stress because I knew what was here / what shops are around. Even though I've had a bit of a shitty day the hol in general has been a lot better than the last one in terms of DH and his moods.
He's a lot worse when he's tired or hungry (as is anyone) but he doesn't seem to get the urge to eat before he's starving like I do, so maybe I'll force snacks on him in future.
Tbh the main issue is the kids not doing what he expects - which is usually normal behaviour for their age to a certain extent ( it's when they are not listening, messing about, wriggling, being loud, or crying / tantruming - which can be a lot since they're quite little!). When he has to repeat himself or they don't do exactly as he says first time he finds it hard to not get angry when having to repeat himself, and this is where I'm stuck because he can't just let things go and accept they are kids from time to time. He expects perfect behaviour.

Probably managing expectations with the kids is something he needs to address in his own counselling and also in relationship counselling with me.

Thank you so much guys. It's good to know it's not just me on the holiday front anyway xxx

It’s hard for us to go on holiday as DH uses a range of strategies to thwart advance planning. I usually have to arrange everything. I have chosen UK breaks lately as these are ultimately a more familiar environment. Good luck catssitonhats. I hope things improve.

@Catssitonhats weve had a mix over time.

When the dcs were little, it was about 1 hols together and 1 hols on my own.
Then it became closer to 2 hols on my own. Or they were for longer periods.

Then it became only hols on my own with the dcs and now Theyre at uni, I have hols totally on my own and one hols with the dcs. I’m not going away with dh.

All hols with dh have always followed the same pattern - camping, lots and lots of walking and some of his special interests throw in the middle. Anything else (like we spent a couple of days visiting a town on the way back) created tension.
Or Christmas…. When my gran was still alive, I made a point of ‘going back home’ once every two years to see her and my parents. Stress through the roof then….

@NoviceVillager yep, dh can’t organise anything, let alone something that will work for everyone.

One reason why we’ve stopped going away together is because I’ve stopped organising anything and he hasn’t stepped up. Which means he isn’t having any hols either 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️
The other is that, as my health went downhill, theres nothing I can think about dh would be happy to do with me (or the other way around). I mean even an outing for the afternoon doesn’t work. So 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

Holidays can be a struggle can’t they? DP is actually great on holiday. He is in his element, as thankfully he isn’t the autistic type to need routines. Prefers to wing it a bit. Likes new adventures and meeting people. Does all the driving, carries all the bags, takes care of the passports and car hire, etc, does all the cooking and restaurant booking. Is happy to do stuff with me or leave me to my book and go off on his own. We make very good holiday partners (most of the time). Mainly because he likes to take charge and I am more than happy to let him. I am pretty easy going and if he wants to do x or y, most of the time I am happy to go along with it. Sounds like the complete opposite of a lot of autistic partners on here who can’t organise any part of the holiday (I have to say DP is not this organised at home by any means!) and don’t want to have any input. We have settled into a good routine. I organise the flights and accommodation and make the decision as to where we’re going. DP does all the organising after that. Seems to work for us. I love booking holidays (DP is useless at it). But I can’t be bothered with the other stuff- Car hire, restaurant bookings. Whereas DP seems quite happy to get on with those. I guess we are very lucky it’s worked out that way!

However I do remember as a child the difficulties my mum had with my dad. He found things like the airport very stressful. He would have to check everything several dozen times before we could leave the house. We would have to be at the airport insanely early. He would get anxious about everything. He would be anxious about how safe the villa was when we arrived and would remove lamps if he thought they were unsafe. Wire windows shut if the drop was too high…. He would go around and find things to complain about. If it rained he would blame my mum and get annoyed with her! But after a few days he would settle down and was actually at his most relaxed. I have some lovely memories of holidays in Spain when we were young. My mum had to take a lot on the chin though. I think holidays with her second husband were far more relaxed!!!

My mum was also great at organising holidays. Back in the day she’d bloody organise anything, she was in her element to be needed this way. I think I’ve come to understand how this works. She does but she doesn’t really feel. She grows plants and flowers because she needs them, not out of joy. Not to invite people in to join in with the glorious flowers. With the children it makes sense for me to stay at home, it makes sense for me to do it this way but the only thing is I don’t want to. It makes sense to hand wash and not use the dishwasher. The only thing is I don’t want to because I dont like washing up. I expect none of it makes to her, the reason why I don’t act the way she thinks. I bet she thinks in deliberately being awkward or fussy.

@NoviceVillager yes the familiarity of the same cottage / place this time and UK based has definitely made it a bit easier.

@SpecialMangeTout3 it's exhausting doing all the organising and trying to please when they can't organise themselves, I'm glad you get your own hols and that sounds like it works way better for you.

@BustyLaRoux your DH sounds great with the organisation for holidays! I have to admit there are definitely certain things he is better at and we divvy up accordingly. I pack, he loads everything into the car. He always sorts the house out and remembers all the little things like washes up those 3 things in the sink, shuts all the windows, turns off plugs etc. He also plans all the routes, and does all the driving. I am way better at planning activities and keeping us busy, making sure we don't waste the days, and ensuring what we do suits all our needs and will keep the kids entertained. I'm also the most conscious about snacks and making sure the kids have had enough rest, enough to eat, and enough down time too. He does treat them like adults sometimes and expects a lot.
We did a huge walk today and halfway up my eldest wanted a rest and he said no come on keep going as he wanted to just get to the end. I said come on bloody hell she's 5!! Legs half the size of ours FFS. Lol.
It's that whole thing of not quite getting that other people need different things sometimes - well, or are least needing reminding!

I think I get this. DH used to get incredibly annoyed at me doing things differently to him (not loading dishwasher in a certain way, then not unloading it in the same order / way he does) very trivial things that don't actually matter to how the job gets done, but annoyed that I was doing it "wrong".
He also seems to just be able to "do". I'm amazed sometimes when he just whizzes round and does all the jobs before sitting down after work. I can't do it, I need a rest first. He is like a machine but he has to do it all otherwise he can't relax - even though he doesn't necessarily enjoy it. And it doesn't make sense me doing anything in a different way. He does now accept it but he will re do the dishwasher if given the chance 😂

Sorry if I have missed some context here too, but I can relate to how you feel being made to feel like the awkward or difficult one, when those things really shouldn't matter x

I sometimes do things differently depending on my mood. This really caused issues. I guess we live in two very different worlds. It also shows just much our emotions control us and how little they seem to control others. I wonder what that must feel like. Do they have the same emotions just are able to ignore and not act upon them or do some just not have that much emotion? I cut the edge of my grass with scissors and not a strimmer because I like the time to sit and relax and clear my head. This winds up my mum something terrible. It’s not efficient and I could use the time to do something else. But I’m not here to be efficient. I’ve got feelings and emotions that I need to work through and I enjoy cutting it with scissors.

I would class my wife as pretty emotionless @Peppasparty, nothing seems to make her really happy (other than the kids - special interest), nothing seems to make her sad, she doesn’t really understand jokes or being light hearted, nothing makes her cry with laughter. I feel sorry for her, it must be a very black and white world in which she lives.

My brother seems to make mine happy. Maybe he is a special interest? She talks a lot about him. Likes that he isnt “fussy”. He is boring to me, doesn’t have friends, only prioritises work and buying stuff for the kids. He prioritises no other relationships, not me or grandparents, just mum and his kids. Can’t see what’s to talk about really but they seem
to find something. A special interest I suppose.

@Peppasparty your mum seems to be a big feature in your life and seems not to have a kind word to say about anything you do. Is it possible to go low contact? She obviously brings nothing positive to your day to day life. I’d be tempted to see her once a month and limit it to that. Otherwise get on with your life the way you see fit and without someone feeling the need to criticise and comment about every little thing you do. Get your scissors out. Free yourself of her watchful and critical eye. You don’t need her approval. I know it’s heartbreaking when your parent isn’t what they should be. I look around and see my friends’ dads. They’re so different. I feel like my dad is (and always has been) a child I have to parent. He needs his needs to be met at all times. Like a toddler. He needs lots of reassurance. Lots of attention. It’s not how other people have to be with their dads. I wish he had been different. But like with so many things in my life, I have finally learned to make peace with it.

You can’t change your mum, sadly. But you don’t have to have her in your life so much if she’s causing you this much pain.

@Catssitonhats

My holidays have seemed semi single. DH doesn't like travelling, views or noise. So I usually take our DC away on holiday without him. He'll come with us if we're visiting his friends or family but, even then, he'll spend much of the time on his own - often resting.

It made beach holidays difficult because one adult can't keep 2 kids safe. But I'd recommend PGL activity holidays in the UK. The 'Family' ones when they're Primary School age, then the 'Independent' ones when they're older.

Now that mine are teens, it's been much easier to do a mix of city breaks and beach trips with them.

Not ideal but better than DH being stressed all week.

Just catching up on the thread and I see I'm not the only one taking my kids away alone

@Crunchingleaf About defensiveness. My DH gets defensive if I suggest his autism might cause any problems. He thinks NT ways aren't logical and that people should be more direct. E.g. I found out that my mum was upset that DH hadn't contacted her (in any way) in the month after my dad died. DH asked me why my mum didn't simply tell him that she wanted a card/text. He thought she was wrong not to ask him. He didn't think he was wrong to not realise she'd want condolences of some sort. I can't think of anyone who would ask for condolences!