Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD/ND: support thread 15

[BustyLaRoux]

New thread.
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This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND ourselves, very many of us have ND children. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.
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It's complicated and it's emotional.
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The old thread is here.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5245372-married-to-someone-with-aspergersasdnd-support-thread-14?page=39&reply=143014416

To be clear I don’t think she really truly believes I have ASD, it’s more like a defence mechanism. She’s only said it a couple of times anyway. It’s a reaction that’s talked about on one of those YouTube vids so is obviously not atypical

I had an ex like this. If you are to blame then I’m not.

My ex behaved like this when I broached it with him as well. Like I had tried to be as constructive as possible and link his struggles with possibly being Autistic. He reacted in a very defensive way and stated he isn’t ‘to blame’ for DS ASD.

Is the fear of blame a trauma response or just part of some people’s wiring?

Maybe it’s shame. If my children end up being ND then it wouldn’t bother me. I’d probably be a little sad because I know it can be tough. But factually my mum is, pretty sure I am so it would make sense. I would want to know the best way to help my child and that would be at the fore front of all my decisions. Perhaps deep down he has created an image of himself and this is rigid and any situations outside of this are not him because that doesn’t match to his perceived image. Everyone else has to be the issue.

Interesting. There is a definite pre-emptive blame defence which seems to kick in at the slightest whiff of blame (or even before!) with the autistic people I know. Is it trauma? Is it hard wiring? I have wondered this so many times. DP talks about having a wonderful relationship with his parents. From what I can tell he was the apple of their eye. They died when he was young so all the siblings idolise them and it’s hard to tell if things would look quite different were they still alive. But the lashing out and firing out blame quickly as a form of defence happens a lot.

So interesting. I say it all the time. This thread stops me from going mad.

Absorbing behaviour, masking, blame, lack of communication, disassociation. It becomes a way of life.

I am determined to break the cycle.

My mum has just called me a show off. I’ve got friends coming at the weekend for a bbq and I’ve been tidying up the garden and the lounge where we will all be. Apparently that makes me a show off because she says who cares if the house is a mess and what people think. I care, it’s nice to do it and I want to but I’m not showing off. It annoys me that she judges and labels people for just thinking differently. It’s ok if she doesn’t want to tidy and I do, both are valid.

@CinnamonTart so you’ve stayed for the children. I completely understand. So many partners on here have done the same. So you need to make the best of the situation. I get you. And no, I don’t think you’re overreacting. His reaction to you was REALLY horrible. Your children can see that too which has obviously upset your DS. It sounds as if the counselling has done some good. But I do worry your DH sees it as somehow the thing which will fix you, as you’re the one with the emotions and therefore you’re the one who needs “fixing”. He maybe doesn’t understand the emotions you feel are down to his behaviour and this is what need “fixing” or certainly addressing. He cannot have outbursts because his family have emotions and he (a) doesn’t want to be blamed at any cost and (b) sees these as demands which he shouldn’t have to deal with.

I may be speaking out of turn, but if you did want to separate is there any way you could advocate to have full custody? Or is that a no no ? (Apologies if I’m being intrusive!)

Yes do it!!! If you have the means and the impetus then break free!!!!

This is such a thing isn’t it: people who do things differently / have different preferences are just plainly wrong.

My Dad the other day telling his sister why she was wrong to use a paper calendar. Online much better. And listed all the scenarios when a paper calendar would cause problems. Ergo factual basis that his way is obviously better. I just laughed and said “ok dad, so you’re right and auntie’s way is clearly wrong then!” Which sort of stopped him in his tracks because we all just laughed.

SIL arguing (literally arguing with me and my DB) that a sporting activity which she loves isn’t something him or I have any interest in. I kept explaining why it’s not the activity for me (multiple reasons to do with water, being cold, the equipment etc). I wasn’t being difficult. I just know I wouldn’t like it that much. She would not accept it. Kept on and on trying to convince me why I was wrong. Eventually my DB said “oh FFS! She doesn’t like it. She doesn’t want to do it!!!” Obviously her nose was out of joint then.

They just think different = wrong, don’t they? Even worse if they treat you with derision because of it. I find some well rehearsed phrases help. “Mmmm yes, we are all different aren’t we?” On repeat.

V annoying though!!!

It happens multiple times. I use a dishwasher and she wash’s by hand I use a tumble dryer with 2 young kids and she got through life without one. I never let my baby cry and she did etc etc. My way or anyone’s else’s way feels like a threat to her , her way is more superior and she has to put my way or the other person down. She does it in lots of conversations and it’s unpleasant.

Yes, the constant need to criticise others is really unpleasant. Are you ever tempted to say to your mum when she’s criticising you for using a dishwasher or whatever “yes, but you do realise we are actually DIFFERENT PEOPLE, mother.?!”

It’s pointless as my response is just more proof that I’m rebellious or different. Is this an ASD thing to criticise like this? She definitely is autistic but this criticism and feeling superior is that part of it? Why does someone feel better because they think something different, it’s only an opinion.

I would say not ASD no. Only my experience but my wife I would class as a very underconfident person and probably feels inferior to a lot of her peer group.

I think it’s back to the right vs wrong mentality. Black and white. No grey. No simple difference of opinions carrying equal weight. I once heard someone say (this person isn’t autistic but I think this applies) “but if there were a better way of doing things, then I would do be doing it that way!” I suppose it’s just that for them there is one right way of doing things, they have weighed up all the pros and cons and have selected the optimum way to do something. Therefore all the other ways are not as good. Otherwise they would have selected one of those. To understand that someone else has also probably subconsciously done the same thing but has selected the best way FOR THEM requires a level of empathy. It’s being able to see that a different person has different priorities and makes their selection based on those and what works for them. But to get that, one would have to accept other people have different experiences. And yes it can come across as superior when that person is scoffing at how ridiculous other people are. I don’t think all autistic people do the putting down and ridiculing (though I know a couple like this), for most it’s just right vs wrong. (I am right, obviously, your opinion is different to mine and therefore it must be wrong by virtue of the fact it’s different). Your mum does sound particularly critical. Some people are just in their happy place when they’re criticising others. My dads like this. To the outsider he looks like he must be annoyed because he’s constantly criticising people and finding fault, but he’s actually in his element!

Why does someone feel better because they think something different, it’s only an opinion.

I agree with @BustyLaRoux . It’s the black and white view of the world. Plus the difficulty in ‘getting’ someone else - their emotional landscape , experiences etc….
The feeling superior (or looking like they feel superior - see also all the issues with facial expression, ways to express themselves etc…) is based on that I feel.
That plus the trauma they’ve had living as an ND and being misunderstood/being at odds with people.

I know quite a few people on the spectrum nowadays agd I can’t say feeling superior is their defining traits. They ARE very stuck on their ideas/values/feelings being ‘the right ones’ but tbh many NTs are too. You just have to scroll MN, let alone any SM, to see it. Being able to hold this idea that 2 realities can be ok at the same time usnt common. The difference is that most NT wouldnt voice it (unless lets being in an anonymous forum like MN)

I suppose in a way you get what you see. They are being truthful, it’s just not nice to hear. There’s none of that tell you to your face but speak behind your back. Most people think their own ways are better, it’s just not the thing to tell people to their faces.

It all makes a lot of sense. We had another discussion about her use of “make a fuss”. She is opinionated about birthday parties. I like to give me kids a little party with friends. My kids having friends is important to me. I like to make a fuss of them as I love them. To her we should only go for a meal as a family of 4 only. She doesn’t sign her cards with love. She isn’t in to all that. But what about the other person, they would probably loved to feel loved. It’s a really weird world to me. Is it because she doesn’t want a fuss made of her or is it because she doesn’t want us to have a fuss made of us?

Probably neither @Peppasparty

It might just be that she doesn’t see the point of writing ‘Love’ because that’s obvious so why should she?
And because she struggles to put herself into anyone else’s shoes (yours and your dcs included), she doesn’t see how this would make a difference to you. Because it doesn’t make a difference to her.

Im not trying to defend her at all cost there. I totally get how hurtful it is for you.
The gap between what you need to feel loved and what she has to offer/how she expresses her love is just too big. And in turns, it makes you feel unloved and unseen. That’s hurtful.

Her rigidity when approaching these things, the fact she expects things to happen her way doesn’t help either. I’m pretty sure it feels quite controlling on your side too.

Im not sure what to say. A lot of her behaviour can be explained through the autism lens. But it doesn’t mean you’re wrong to want more. To need more. You’re not too sensitive or making a fuss over nothing.
It is heartbreaking when the gap in communication and emotional language becomes this painful and no one’s really at fault, yet the hurt is still very real. P

@SpecialMangeTout3 exactly this, ‘the gap in communication and emotional language becomes this painful and no one’s really at fault, yet the hurt is still very real.’

There is a fault isn’t there, Autism? Although I’m not sure if you are allowed to call it a fault.

Honestly she isn’t a person who’d I’d want to be around if not for the mum part. She leaves me feeling rubbish and grey and non functional.

No I can’t see autism as a fault, just as a difference and sometimes as a difficulty. Many of us on the thread have autistic kids (or suspected in my case). Helping them to understand themselves, navigate relationships etc. it really helps. I think all of us with late or undiagnosed partners also deal with maladaption and trauma that I hope the younger generation can swerve. Perhaps that is also true for your parent @Peppasparty I can see how hurt you are 💐.

I suppose it’s the long term undiagnosed that had caused a lot of issues. She would rather help a stranger than family. I can understand that she gets something nice from this and it’s easy as she isn’t emotionally attached. It must have been hard for her to have got her needs met growing up when she can’t really do this via connections and emotions with people.

@Peppasparty That sounds incredibly hard. Being hurt by the way she is whilst still feeling the pull because she is your mum.

You don’t have to be close to her though.
Going LC won’t change the grief around your childhood and not having the mother you needed but didn’t get. But if it means not continuing to be hurt by her behaviour then it might be a good thing to do for you.
Youre still allowed to protect yourself, even if it’s your mum.