Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD/ND: support thread 15

[BustyLaRoux]

New thread.
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This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND ourselves, very many of us have ND children. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.
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It's complicated and it's emotional.
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The old thread is here.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5245372-married-to-someone-with-aspergersasdnd-support-thread-14?page=39&reply=143014416

My bro lost all his friends as he only wants to talk about his job and no one wants to hear on repeat about what he fixed on loop. It’s sad as I know they say to be inclusive of people’s differences but having to listen to someone talk about themselves isn’t much fun. It must be lonely for you. My partner is a little repetitive but he has a lot of friends in his particular hobby and those people are really social and have great stories so it’s a win. I’m bored without 10 mins of a conversation with my bro.

Peppasparty

Yes it is very lonely. DH sounds the same as your bro. He also talks about work on a fixed loop and frankly yes he is boring. He literally does not stop to draw a breath once he gets started...

Hard for me to explain to people, I dont do anything as part of a couple anymore. I do a lot on my own. I kind have got used to it now but we used to have couple friends but hard for me to keep in touch with them in the situation I'm in.

I didnt realise repetition was also a sign of ASD. My partner seems to go on and on about certain points, like he's forgotten he's said it once. Or comes across harshly/picky. To me that means his communication isn't great yet he's said to me that he has a disorder where communication is tough so I should keep that in mind, that he isn't intending to sound bad.

Yeah @Petra42 i think it can be. DP repeats himself also. Both in the same conversation (will say the same thing four or five times) but also the next day he will say it again. I don’t think he’s forgotten he said it. Actually maybe he has. His recall and memory for detail is awful.

Typically he has also got very angry with me when I repeated myself though. Said things like “you have already stated that. Why would you feel the need to state it again?” And then gone on at me that I was criticising him and I obviously think he is stupid otherwise what purpose does it serve for me to repeat myself…?!

When I replied that I didn’t mean anything and pointed out people, including him, often repeat things. His reply was “it’s not a competition! You’re always comparing!”

But yes, repetition is almost certainly a thing (as well as seeing criticism in everything, no self awareness etc!!!)

I have had an asd partner before a while ago. He was sweet and harmless but he did tend to go into technical detail about things. His emails and texts would include everything, minor stuff that you would omit. Conversations were drawn out because he couldn’t get to the point. He also would then completely miss out communication and expect me to just know what he wanted me to do. Then when I obviously couldn’t do it because he hadn’t actually opened his mouth and said the words he’d say I’m better doing it on my own. He wouldn’t have been better if he let me know what he wanted. He then would get annoyed but the problem was him and not me.
My brothers repetition is on subject matter. He talks consistently of work, he has turned his special interest into work. There is nothing apart from this. Then he will talk about how he is better at it than everyone else. He keeps his tools cleaner than everyone else, he’s like a little boy. I don’t want to be rude but no one really cares about this. People talk about hobbies, friends, adventure etc etc. He’s stopped visiting all family apart from mum who listens to him. I think she should have guided him better on how to socialise because their kids visit no one and see no friends only mum.

@NDornotND i have to say I’m more and more thinking that NT/ASD is near impossible to work due to the differing needs. I’m hoping that ND/NS can work for my ds sake🤞🤞

I also think being undiagnosed means it made things much harder for me. Because for such a long time, I used the NT framework to understand what was going on. And then I needed to learn about autism, what was autism and what probably isn’t.
Add ‘love’, wanting to accomodate his needs etc…. I think it was deadly mix tbh because at no point were my needs put top of the list.

Peppasparty

Snap, DH is exactly the same. He has no other interests. His special interest is work and not interested in anything else. He doesnt want to go anywhere other than work.

It is hard for me, single without being single

I have to enjoy my own company!

I’m NT and both DH and DS are AuDHD. My DH bucks the trend on here and is prepared to work on himself and has changed and adapted over the years. Perhaps some of this has been deep level masking but on the whole he is a good person who is thoughtful and loving. I don’t generally comment because most of the ladies here are struggling with partners who cannot or will not accept that change is a possibility. But just to say that an NT/ND relationship can work. Not to say it’s always been easy, but we have grown with each other and I have learnt a lot, I can also apparently pass in largely ND circles 😁 as I learnt to accommodate people’s needs due to my son and I accept people for who they are and have learned not to judge someone’s ND state and have a higher level of consideration than I might have done previously (before DS!). My DH doesn’t get free passes for shitty behaviour because he is ND, but the more recent ADHD diagnosis has provided a lot of explanation for some stuff.
So I guess my point is that if you are both able to learn and adapt and it doesn’t feel like a one way process then it can work for a mixed ND/NT couple.

@Pashazade its always nice to hear about things when they work. :)

Im just going to argue that it’s not JUST about adapting (for both of you).
When the needs of the two partners aren’t compatible, Regardiess of the reason why (ie whether it’s ND, or physical disability like myself etc…) then Theyre not compatible. No amount of adapting will change that.

That was a really hard thing for me to learn tb

I really think it depends on the particular behaviours as the spectrum is huge and so varied. I don’t think that one person can compare their relationship with another. Some of the ND behaviour is really not compatible with a relationship but not all ND people have this issue.

Yep - if one gets stressed by noise and then other family members constantly talk over each other and/or walk around unconsciously whistling humming or singing or repeating phrases for example… that’s going to be hard. And it’s nobody’s fault.

Yep.
DH stimming is mumbling. I wouldn’t dream to tell him to stop that.
I have some childhood trauma and this is exactly the type of noise that sets me in fight or fly - tachycardia, anxiety, the whole lot.
Thats very hard to make those two things compatible Regardiess of all the adjusting

This is from an entirely NT perspective. Some NT behaviours- for example excessive need for validation or company - may not be compatible with the needs of someone who requires a lot of time alone and finds some types of connection meaningless and boring. It goes both ways. Not all NT people are so needy and irritating, some can tolerate their own company and make interesting conversation 🙂

Of course it goes both ways. But in general people get into relationships and that means sharing space and kids and not much alone time etc. I think both sides of the relationship need to make sure that they are compatible. Having kids and then complaining that you don’t get enough time and need excessive amounts isn’t really fair. Not giving your child what they need emotionally does a huge amount of damage. I know from experience. But that can go to anyone who can’t meet a child’s needs. My bro put his needs before his kids and my mum and her interests came
first.

@Peppasparty "But that can go to anyone who can’t meet a child’s needs."
Agreed - your comments have made me ponder whether ND children may struggle more if their parents are NT; It would make an interesting research question, if it hasn't already been explored! My feeling is that it's important to not assume that the way you would like things to be is necessarily right and beneficial, whereas other ways of being are necessarily wrong and harmful. It's all context dependent. Your mum and your brother seem to be content in their relationship with one another, from what you say, whereas you find it difficult. Perhaps if your mum had been NT, you and she would have a better relationship, but your brother would have struggled more with the family dynamic. I am probably being over-simplistic, I am just trying to make the case that the ND way of being is not deficient, it's just different and can be very hard for NT people to relate to, and vice versa.

your comments have made me ponder whether ND children may struggle more if their parents are NT
My understanding is that research is saying that yes an NT parent is struggling more than an ASD parent if the child is also on the spectrum. The ‘doing better’ in that case meaning establish a deeper or better relationship, being autism affirming etc….
As this is often the case, research highlights how bad NT parents are (pressure to behave like NT, no understanding of child’s world etc….). Aligning with most of the research on autism that is very ‘autism affirming’ and NT should accomodate more.
Interestingly, there is very little research about the impact of ASD parent on an NT child 🙄🙄.

im quite critical of the research so far tbh.
i feel it’s very biased towards ‘autism affirming’ world that expect the environment to adjust to the needs of autistic people with little thought about the impact on, for example, other disabled people. That is often, not even just an after thought, but completely missing from the research 😵‍💫😵‍💫

I wish we were moving away from shame, on BOTH sides! But rather we were moving towards acceptance of differing needs. I think this would be more helpful to everyone, regardless of the reason of the differing needs (ND, disability, religion etc…), and would avoid this them vs us feeling.

Btw @NDornotND I agree about the fact that it seems an ND parent seems to get on better with an ND child.
And that if you have a mix of NT+ASD children, then being an ND parent will both a struggle and a god send depending which child you ask.

im going to argue though that, if we can expect an NT parent to learn about ND, do their best to meet the child up where they are, understand their needs for let’s say stimming, focus interest etc etc then an ND parent should be expected to do the same for their NT child.
And that, if we accept that forcing an ND child to behave like an NT is wrong and hurtful. So is ignoring the emotional needs of an NT child by an ND parent.

i feel it’s very biased towards ‘autism affirming’ world that expect the environment to adjust to the needs of autistic people with little thought about the impact on, for example, other disabled people. That is often, not even just an after thought, but completely missing from the research

I must admit that I am not well up on the research, but can well believe that there is a bias towards 'autism affirming'. I understand where that is coming from, to an extent, because people with autism are a minority (albeit a growing minority) in society, and are generally othered and told that how they are is wrong and harmful, because they behave in ways that the majority of people find odd or uncomfortable.

I can see from this board that being autism-affirming can come at the expense of those around the ND person, which suggests that maybe the pendulum has swung too far and that collateral damage is being done, but I do think there is merit in accepting different ways of being and moving away from seeing difference as deficiency.

Given the scope of severity of autism, which can range from being severely disabling to having some challenges, but being perfectly able to function, I think it's difficult to demand that all ND parents must behave in NT ways in order for their parenting to be considered acceptable. My feeling is that parents should accommodate their children's needs to the best of their ability, but there is a level of disability. An ASD parent may never be able to connect emotionally in the same way as someone NT, but should do their best to show up for their children in the ways that they can. What's the alternative? People have all sorts of foibles and deficiencies, and parents are just people.

Long weekend. Sigh. Why is it high days and holidays are always the longest, hardest and loneliest 😔💕xx

I’m so sorry this is how you’re feeling. 🫂

@NDornotND oh yes I totally get where it’s coming from. And I have a huge issue with othering, whether it’s autistic people or any other disabled people.

But I’m physically disabled. I’m facing daily struggles too. And the othering as well as the ‘I can’t see why you’re saying you’re struggling', being asked to do things I can’t etc… I’d say I’m pretty good at masking too. I’m masking being well because not doing so makes people uncomfortable. So yes I get it.
But I’m still expected to fit in around people. I’ve been told that my disability doesn’t matter as much as dh disability/autism and I should accomodate him. That was by my counsellor too….
So yes it does feel too one way to me.

I feel its a shame the autism community decided to keep the ableist framework (disabled=bad), insisting autism isn’t a disability but a gift instead, rather than pushing the idea that disability=variation from the norm and it’s still ok, just being human if that makes sense. So not about expecting ASD people to behave like NT (how could you?) but being accepting of differences. Differences in needs, in capabilities etc….
The discussion I think is difficult because, just as much we should all aim to never shame someone for their difference, it’s also clear disability can have a negative impact on the children. I’ve seen the issues between dc1 (NT) and dh at home. Just like I’ve also seen the impact of my own issues on the dcs, dc1 in particular. Theyre just facts. Not judgement or shaming. (Well, it should never be). But not talking about potential issues isn’t going to make them go away.

Yes, I have often felt this too 🫂♥️

I too feel that there is harm in this autism affirming message, for many of us it is a disability, not just a difference. But like any disability, one doesn't trump the other so whether physical or 'invisible', both need some level of adjustment.

As an autistic parent to an autistic child there are probably some benefits in me understanding her world and some of her struggles in daily life as I've experienced them myself. But it probably also means I have at times found it hard to 'fight' for the support that my DD needs, as I've been too trusting in the system and too scared of conflict/not being 'liked' to push the Senco, been overwhelmed by the process (EHCP), missed social cues in meetings, not understood things said in meetings as my processing speed is affected at times and I get muddled.

The list goes on. I did find the strength to pursue and fight the EHCP and I did eventually stand up to the Senco, get the LA involved etc but it left me with burnout. H left me to it mostly, not sure if that was due to his ND or not, but me fighting the system as an autistic person was not easy. Not saying it would be easier for an NT person but I certainly felt out of my depth a lot of the time with it. It's also horrible hearing the abelist language used by so called professionals, having to keep your mouth shut. Yet the expectation is for the parents to remain strong and 'fight', do whatever you can, go to tribunal, get legal help, pay for specialists, etc. Like now, when I'm probably faced with no choice but to Home Ed, and not sure I'm the right person for it.

Years ago an experienced colleague of mine pointed out that most of the parents we were dealing with (I was teaching kids of of school for medical reasons at the time) were probably autistic themselves and were probably struggling with navigating the system to get support for their children. No one seemed to have thought of this, it was at a time before the genetic link was more publicly spoken about. Ironically I hadn't realised that I was autistic at this time, despite having a diagnosed child as well as working with similar children...

@ItReallyDoesntMatterAnymore you remind me of a good friend of mine who is ND/ADHD. She has 3 dcs, all ND, 2 of them autistic and in special school.
She described very similar issues to you.
What has been fascinating from the outside is how ND has become her special interest, for the sake of supporting her dcs. She has become an expert in fighting at tribunal, demanding the accomodation her dcs needed etc…. She is also an expert in ND, as in ‘how does it affect people’ and has taught her own dcs to spot when their reaction is likely linked to their autism/ADHD and how to find ways to deal with it.
She is a really inspiring woman and I can see how her ND has been a huge advantage there.
Im just not sure it’s the case for every ND parent and, as you said, it would also be very easy for the balance to tip the other way around.

I also feel, seeing the genetic side of things, that it’s somehow unfair to ask parents of ND children, who are therefore more likely to be ND themselves, even if undiagnosed, to fight in an adversarial NT system. It’s like everything is been stacked up against the children and the parents.

Your friend sounds amazing! @SpecialMangeTout3 my SIL is a bit like that and has managed to get an excellent specialist provision placement for her eldest DS. ND/ASD is definitely a specialist interest for me too but I am still learning so much, particularly on these threads 😄