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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD/ND: support thread 15

1000 replies

BustyLaRoux · 22/03/2025 06:42

New thread.
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This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND ourselves, very many of us have ND children. It is a support thread, and a safe space, it does get emotional at times. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.
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It's complicated and it's emotional.
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The old thread is here.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5245372-married-to-someone-with-aspergersasdnd-support-thread-14?page=39&reply=143014416

Page 39 | Married to someone with Asperger's/ASD/ND: support thread 14 | Mumsnet

_New thread._ __ _This thread is for those of us seeking to explore the dynamics of long term relationships with our ND partners. Some of us are ND ou...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5245372-married-to-someone-with-aspergersasdnd-support-thread-14?page=39&reply=143014416

OP posts:
BustyLaRoux · 14/04/2025 11:57

@Sweetandsaltycaroline oh Jesus wept! So according to your DH the menopause is just an excuse for women being generally fed up and rubbish and the solution for lack of sleep due to snoring husbands is to sleep naked….

How is this man still alive?!

My DP told me women were rubbish at DIY because they were lazy. (Narrowly avoided kick in the knackers….but only because I’m too lazy to kick him, probably!)

OP posts:
BustyLaRoux · 15/04/2025 08:24

Interesting interaction with DP last night.

I was due to go round to do some cleaning yesterday as he’s moving out of the house we shared and needs to hand it back. Last week was Easter holiday and the kids were with me (and his with him). I had his DD over for a sleepover. I have seen him. But last week I was mainly trying to keep the kids busy. The kids went back to their dad on Saturday afternoon. My lovely friend took me to a spa for the day on Sunday. So I offered to go and clean Monday evening. Yesterday. He replied that he was actually thinking of going out (implication that yesterday not convenient?? Perhaps I read it wrong..) I said OK well I am busy on Tuesday and Wednesday (building furniture with my brother) so could come on Thursday instead..?

The reply I got was along the lines of “it’s taken you TWO weeks to even offer to help me! You’re obviously busy with your social life. Thursday is too late. I move next week. That’s not enough time to get all of this sorted. As I suspected you’ve just left it all to me and got on with your new life”

I replied that that’s not true. I have brought round all my boxes and bubble wrap so he doesn’t have to buy his own. I didn’t flat pack the boxes which would have been easier for me. I kept them assembled so as to save him having to make them/buy packing tape. That’s meant multiple trips in my car as I can only fit five or six at a time. I’ve also offered to do cleaning. I’ve taken his stuff to the charity shop and have offered to do a tip run for him if he books a slot (booking system). I even offered to help him move on moving day, which he declined.

He says bringing the boxes is well and good, thanks and all, but it doesn’t count as helping really as I was coming up anyway to get the stuff I’ve left behind. I wasn’t coming specifically to help him! And he did “everything he could” to help me move and now I’ve just left him in the shit.

I said actually you didn’t do everything you could. You didn’t pack a single box. You didn’t go and buy the additional packing materials. You didn’t come with me to the tip. You got shitfaced the night before I moved and were so hungover you could only make tea on moving day and only managed to shift a couple of boxes all morning! You weren’t much help at all. You have built my wardrobe (later in the day when he was feeling human again) and put up a shelf. That’s all you’ve actually done though. You’re adopting a mantra of “oh poor me, I have to do everything and she’s done nothing to help me!!!!!!” and playing the martyr, but it isn’t factually true. You haven’t done that much to help me and I have not done nothing to help you. I am here with my cleaning materials in hand ready to spend my evening cleaning this house. I will go to the tip for you if you book a slot. I’ve brought you all the packing stuff you need….

His reply:

The boxes are just the boxes WE moved house with last time so it’s not exactly that much of a favour (except they’re not. Those boxes were knackered. These are new boxes I went and got from my friend who moved out recently).

He is grateful about the tip run but hasn’t booked a slot as I’m so busy he doesn’t know when I’ll be free to do it! (I’m not that busy. I am working. But I could take an hour or so out to go to the tip. The problem isn’t me being busy. It’s that the house is in complete chaos and he hasn’t actually got the stuff ready for the tip. He’s deflecting).

And it’s taken me TWO WEEKS to come round and clean and is the first sign of any help. Why has it taken me two weeks? I’ve forgotten about him!!! (I came round every day of the first week with boxes! I had the kids with me all last week, as did he, and have been parenting. They only went back to dad on Saturday afternoon and today is Monday! He replied “well, you could have come on Sunday?!” )

Ugh. I told him that I knew he would do this. I knew he would mismanage moving out and then try and find ways to blame me: I haven’t helped him. I’ve not done enough. Poor him. Victim and martyring. He said it wasn’t about blame. I showed him his messages (“you’ve taken two weeks to help me!” And “you’re too busy with your social life!” Kind of thing) but he said these are not about blame. I said “can you not read? They are very clearly statements of blame!! It’s what you do. You mismanage and blame! And I knew you would do this”.

Eventually he said he felt alone. And he thinks the relationship is ending. That I haven’t helped because I’m not interested. That he “knows women” and can read me. I don’t care about him anymore. Etc.

I said well finally we get to the bottom of it! Why not say that then? Instead of YOU haven’t helped me! YOU’RE too busy! We went on like this for a bit with him insisting that he can read women due to his vast experience (he did actually say those words several times, dear god!) and something in me has changed and I am not being honest about my feelings and I should just leave him to do the house on his own.

I did leave (after cleaning for 2 hours). I thought about what he said. Do I feel differently? Have I stopped caring?? I was messaging my SIL and all of a sudden it occurred to me. I know what’s happened!! I checked out emotionally 2 or 3 years ago. We’ve spoken on here many times about building the internal defences and needing to emotionally detach in order not to get hurt. It’s a survival technique. I wrote this to her:

“I had to to keep myself sane. I couldn’t let his awful moods affect me the way they did, so I detached myself so I didn’t care anymore. I may have been living in the same house but I had checked out emotionally way before I moved out.

I’m not sure why he, who is so good with reading women, didn’t notice that!

My heart broke years ago. I pieced it back together and I made the best of things. I survived is what I did. I took the good bits and withdrew whenever he was awful. Which was often.

And now I don’t need to placate and appease him he thinks this means I’ve changed. But I haven’t. I just don’t have to live under the cloud of his moods and be constantly trying to navigate them. Be friendly. Be chatty. Don’t get upset. Don’t say anything which could be taken the wrong way. Don’t be upset about anything he’s done. Don’t have feelings. Smile even when he’s been awful. Keep up the facade. Keep the peace. Do your best. Manage him to survive as best you can!

And I don’t have to do that anymore. It’s very liberating. Doesn’t mean I want to split up. But I would enjoy the relationship being on equal terms, not on his terms. Five years of managing this man’s endless fucking feelings and moods.

And now I matter more.

And I guess that’s what he senses. Because although he thinks emotionally I’m different, I’m not. As I say I checked out ages ago. He just didn’t notice!”

When I read it back it made me cry! 😢 To look at those words written down. What I’ve had to do to myself for the last few years just to get by. Funny that he didn’t pick up on this and is only now noticing. And only because all of a sudden he isn’t the main focus anymore. He thinks me behaving as an equal, instead of a subordinate, means I don’t care. And what does he do? Fire out martyrish statements blaming me for not helping him, when what he really means is “you don’t love me anymore and I feel sad and alone”. But articulating that was like getting blood from a stone. He would rather shout and blame. My dad is the same.

So yes, I am just ruminating on the last 12 hours. It’s been quite eye opening. I’m sorry this is such long post (aren’t mine always!!). But there’s a lot of food for thought there.

OP posts:
Peppasparty · 15/04/2025 08:33

@BustyLaRoux I think that the nail has hit the head …it’s all about me. I think these relationships slowly centre themselves around them, we cushion them. When we change (change into a healthy person) they are perplexed. I feel this with my mum, I pulled back from gravitating towards her and it affects their stability. They are only stable when they are at the centre of everything, we become part of their emotional stability which is wrong. I guess it’s co-dependency when one of the sides steps away, the other crumbles and the other gets healthier. We mean much more them then they really do to us but they don’t want us to know this. Your partner needs to reply on himself for his emotional needs and not on you, it’s going to be hard on him. I suspect hard on you also because it will pull at your empathy, he’ll be a lost puppy.

NDornotND · 15/04/2025 08:43

@BustyLaRoux Yes, a lot of food for thought and very insightful. He's used to you tiptoeing around and, yes, you have changed! He'll need to get used to it and learn to appreciate you or he will make his own suspicions a reality, as you will find the relationship doesn't work for you at all anymore. I mean, deciding you need to move out is a neon flashing light that things were changing. I think he may be noticing that, finally.

BustyLaRoux · 15/04/2025 08:47

Peppasparty · 15/04/2025 08:33

@BustyLaRoux I think that the nail has hit the head …it’s all about me. I think these relationships slowly centre themselves around them, we cushion them. When we change (change into a healthy person) they are perplexed. I feel this with my mum, I pulled back from gravitating towards her and it affects their stability. They are only stable when they are at the centre of everything, we become part of their emotional stability which is wrong. I guess it’s co-dependency when one of the sides steps away, the other crumbles and the other gets healthier. We mean much more them then they really do to us but they don’t want us to know this. Your partner needs to reply on himself for his emotional needs and not on you, it’s going to be hard on him. I suspect hard on you also because it will pull at your empathy, he’ll be a lost puppy.

You are completely right. It’s felt like everything has been about him for the last five years. And he doesn’t know any other way to be. So me tipping the scales to a more balanced position is deeply unnerving for him. It’s new ground. He only knows how to accuse and blame and get annoyed though. Definitely a very interesting evening. I’m not sure where this leaves us really. I do love him, in my own way. I wish him only good things. But I am done with him being the centre of our world. I can have my world and he can have his. And we can come together when it suits us both. If he doesn’t like that, then so be it.

OP posts:
NDornotND · 15/04/2025 08:50

@Peppasparty "We mean much more them then they really do to us but they don’t want us to know this". I find this a really interesting statement in the context of what you've said about your mum. My instinct is that you do mean a lot to her (as you say), but she is unable to express it in a way that resonates with you, which leaves you feeling rejected. Why would she not want you to know?

BustyLaRoux · 15/04/2025 08:51

NDornotND · 15/04/2025 08:43

@BustyLaRoux Yes, a lot of food for thought and very insightful. He's used to you tiptoeing around and, yes, you have changed! He'll need to get used to it and learn to appreciate you or he will make his own suspicions a reality, as you will find the relationship doesn't work for you at all anymore. I mean, deciding you need to move out is a neon flashing light that things were changing. I think he may be noticing that, finally.

Well yes except if you asked him he would say that we mutually decided it would be best to live apart. I mean, we have talked about it before. I even looked at a house after the horrible boat incident. But the house wasn’t great and we decided to try and make it work (me for financial and practical reasons mainly). So this time it was me who decided it, but he said he had also been looking at properties. Fine mutual then.

But you’re right, if he carries on with the angry accusations and martyring then he will make his own prophecy come true!

OP posts:
BustyLaRoux · 15/04/2025 08:53

NDornotND · 15/04/2025 08:50

@Peppasparty "We mean much more them then they really do to us but they don’t want us to know this". I find this a really interesting statement in the context of what you've said about your mum. My instinct is that you do mean a lot to her (as you say), but she is unable to express it in a way that resonates with you, which leaves you feeling rejected. Why would she not want you to know?

Yes I agree, but mean a lot in what way? Mean a lot as in love? Isn’t love meant to be selfless? Or mean a lot as in provides a service? I sometimes think my dad can’t do the first and confuses it with the second. DP think does feel the first, but expresses it as the second. I wonder if there’s a sliding scale. Some people closer to feeling actual love and some people only able to feel their needs are being met (or not) and equating that with love..?

OP posts:
NDornotND · 15/04/2025 09:04

Who decides what "actual love" is, though? None of us know what anyone else feels, or that what we experience as love is the same as what someone else does, surely? I don't think love should be selfless, no. You can love someone without completely abnegating your own needs in their service - as you appear to be trying to with your DP...

Peppasparty · 15/04/2025 09:04

BustyLaRoux · 15/04/2025 08:53

Yes I agree, but mean a lot in what way? Mean a lot as in love? Isn’t love meant to be selfless? Or mean a lot as in provides a service? I sometimes think my dad can’t do the first and confuses it with the second. DP think does feel the first, but expresses it as the second. I wonder if there’s a sliding scale. Some people closer to feeling actual love and some people only able to feel their needs are being met (or not) and equating that with love..?

I think need as in we just become part of the world. For example my little one (who I suspect nd) got very upset that the hand towel was missing from the spot where it should be. You should be where you are supposed to be, behaving the way you are supposed to behave. I often wonder if that is why my mum can’t visit. I’m a normal human with various emotions that don’t always make sense as that’s being an emotional being.

Peppasparty · 15/04/2025 09:10

NDornotND · 15/04/2025 09:04

Who decides what "actual love" is, though? None of us know what anyone else feels, or that what we experience as love is the same as what someone else does, surely? I don't think love should be selfless, no. You can love someone without completely abnegating your own needs in their service - as you appear to be trying to with your DP...

Only the person can love how they love and know why. It’s on the other person to decide if this is the way they want to be loved. My ex loved me when I behaved correctly, when I made it all about him. I enjoyed the love for a while until I realised the conditions of his love. This wasn’t a love I wanted. I have another partner who loves me when I’m happy and sad and behaving or not quite, this is the love I want. I feel we project onto others the love we feel and expect them to love us the same and get annoyed when they don’t. Sometimes the nasty ones lie and those who see relationships as something logical, they tell us what we want to here as they don’t know how to do it from the heart.

BustyLaRoux · 15/04/2025 09:15

NDornotND · 15/04/2025 09:04

Who decides what "actual love" is, though? None of us know what anyone else feels, or that what we experience as love is the same as what someone else does, surely? I don't think love should be selfless, no. You can love someone without completely abnegating your own needs in their service - as you appear to be trying to with your DP...

Well you’re not wrong there. That is what I’m trying to do. I guess selfless as in “if the chips were down I’d do what was best for you, not me” like you would for your children. I wouldn’t hesitate to put my children first. I don’t think my dad feels that way about me because I don’t think he is capable of real love. But yes, I guess “real love” just means different things to different people.

OP posts:
BustyLaRoux · 15/04/2025 09:16

This is all very deep and meaningful for 9am! 😂

OP posts:
SpecialMangeTout3 · 15/04/2025 09:41

I’m also going to say love isn’t always the best indicator in a relationship.
There are so many things we do in the name of Love. Incl working on a relationship that is hurting us, hoping it will get better.

These days, I prefer a much more practical and down to earth approach - are my needs met? Are his needs met?

Not very romantic I know….

ItReallyDoesntMatterAnymore · 15/04/2025 10:00

Veey deep and meaningful discussion this morning indeed! I like it!

I think we emotionally detach to protect ourselves and it's great to be able to see it more clearly @BustyLaRoux perhaps having your own safe space, pink kettle included, has meant you can calmly piece the bits together to see the whole picture.

@Peppasparty You summed it up wonderfully there in your post about the nail hitting the head. Can totally relate to all of that. As I become healthy and changing the dynamic, H is falling apart.

ItReallyDoesntMatterAnymore · 15/04/2025 10:12

And on the topic of love...I wonder about this myself, I love DD and my parents unconditionally. I thought I loved my first H but it was so intense, so dramatic and all about managing his emotions and cushioning him that I think it was more of a co-dependency thing. But I never doubted my feelings for him, I thought it was 'true love'. Now I can see it wasn't, it was a form of addiction to the highs and lows.

Prior to that I had a long term boyfriend who was very kind, caring but also funny and intelligent. I loved him but I stopped fancying him (ick over hygiene and some odd habits I think) and eventually we ended things in a bon dramatic way.

But with H I haven't felt the same since he first became unpleasant (probably shortly after DDs birth) and I have detached. I do care for him a lot and have warm feelings but I'm not sure it's love? How can you love someone who at times looks at you like you're something unpleasant to be scraped off their shoe and picks on you or shuts you down if you dare to disagree? That doesn't feel like love on either side.

I've felt very strong attractions to men in the past but I think that is hormonal and an actual chemistry, rather than love. Although that can develop into love of course.

I've experienced limerence which is not pleasant either but I do wonder if that is what they sing about in songs.

Actually attended a Zoom drink on the topic of Love according to Aristotle, that was rather interesting and seemed more focused on platonic love being the truest form, rather than the rush and excitement of lust.

Peppasparty · 15/04/2025 10:17

I’m not sure it’s entirely to protect ourselves. I think that these relationships have a time limit, there is only so long that one person can sustain another person before getting irritated and a little bored of the life. We are independent people and this kind of relationship stops us from fulfilling ourselves and that just makes us resentful of the other person. Probably sounds a little selfish but we aren’t here to fulfil the needs of others, we are here to live our life and meet someone who aligns. I think guilt has a lot to say, guilt that we have needs and it feels selfish.

ItReallyDoesntMatterAnymore · 15/04/2025 10:39

Peppasparty · 15/04/2025 10:17

I’m not sure it’s entirely to protect ourselves. I think that these relationships have a time limit, there is only so long that one person can sustain another person before getting irritated and a little bored of the life. We are independent people and this kind of relationship stops us from fulfilling ourselves and that just makes us resentful of the other person. Probably sounds a little selfish but we aren’t here to fulfil the needs of others, we are here to live our life and meet someone who aligns. I think guilt has a lot to say, guilt that we have needs and it feels selfish.

Yes and it took me until my early 40s to figure this out!

BustyLaRoux · 15/04/2025 11:02

On the subject of love and autism, I find it interesting that what DP is feeling is a rejection, a lessening of loving feelings. But despite me having detached emotionally some time ago, he didn’t really notice then. What he’s perceiving, and what he’s articulating, is a lack of practical support. One could deduce that for him, and perhaps other autistic people, showing love is about providing practical support. “If you love me, that means doing things for me. I love you, so I do practical things for you”. And this is true of him. He does do (not so much with me moving) a lot of practical things for me, without me asking. It’s his love language. Hate the term. But the acts of service thing is his way to show love.

Interestingly I am providing him with a lot of practical support (mentioned upstream about boxes and cleaning and tip run, etc.) but because he is feeling unloved all he can think is that the acts of service aren’t being provided. It goes love = acts of service. Feeling unloved = acts of service must have been withdrawn. The reality is that I am doing and have done lots of practical acts of service for him, but he can’t see that. He feels unloved so shouts at me that I’m not helping him enough. The truth and his perception don’t match. He loves me therefore he MUST have provided lots of practical support when I moved (he didn’t, but because he loves me he assumes he must have done). He feels unloved and that can only be because I’m not doing enough to help him (again, this isn’t true, but because he feels lonely this is what he assumes must be the case. He has always had a challenging relationship with the truth!!). So he shouts and blames about lack of support because this is him saying he feels unloved. His rigid thinking can’t accept a different version. He feels something therefore X must be true.

Interesting because for me, love is about much more than practical acts of service. What about emotional support? I think what he’s feeling is a lack of someone pandering to his moods and whims. But he hasn’t been aware that I’ve been doing that. He wasn’t aware his ex did it. I imagine all his exes have had to do the same. He isn’t even aware of it. He is the centre and we have all just been bit parts in his play. And now I am directing my own play over here, and this means he’s lost out. But he can’t really articulate that so instead he shouts that I’m leaving him to deal with all the shit and offering no help, when he went over and above to help me. It’s not true, but his rigid perception of what love entails means it must be true.

I thought him shouting and blaming me for not helping him was just the usual pattern of mismanagement and blame. When he kept saying it wasn’t about blame, I was like wtf?! Yes it is! Everything you’ve said is blaming me for the mess you’re in. But having thought about it I can see why, for him, it isn’t actually about blame. Though on the surface of things that’s how it comes across.

Gosh, what a very interesting evening last night was!

OP posts:
ShockedandStunnedRepeatedly · 15/04/2025 11:09

NDornotND · 15/04/2025 08:50

@Peppasparty "We mean much more them then they really do to us but they don’t want us to know this". I find this a really interesting statement in the context of what you've said about your mum. My instinct is that you do mean a lot to her (as you say), but she is unable to express it in a way that resonates with you, which leaves you feeling rejected. Why would she not want you to know?

Because that would give you power over them

Peppasparty · 15/04/2025 11:15

Real love is listening and paying attention and loving that person the way they need to be loved and feeling this. If you are emotionally mature enough to be able to look beyond self (which some of these folks aren’t) that is. Real love is uncomfortable, it’s seeing someone’s real self, it’s unique depending on their life experiences and they way perceived it. It’s seeing this as not connected to you. They can’t do this, it’s very superficial love.

Peppasparty · 15/04/2025 11:33

I don’t know if it helps to know this. I look back to my mum. So she loves me the way she thinks is the acceptable way to love via her standards. I don’t feel love because it’s not the way I need to be loved. It’s very confusing how to know how to react because simply not feeling loved means I don’t believe I am cared about at all when perhaps I am. It makes me feel bad for not bothering much. Completely mid communication is a nightmare.

Sweetandsaltycaroline · 15/04/2025 12:15

One of the things I find strange in terms of relationships is that (I feel) DH can "log out" frequently. He can get unreasonably teary or emotional at the thought of eg DS last day of primary and agree he'll definitely go to the leavers ceremony because it will only happen once and it means so much, hes so proud etc (tears)....half an hour later agree to do a job at work that means that not possible. (I had cleared my diary and said i was unavailable) And then quite matter of factly say well obviously he won't be able to go now. (And can I tell DS that Dad had to work)

The amount of promises he made to go to events, birthday meals, holidays etc and then work or hobby took priority. By the age of about 8 DD realised that Dad saying he would go to something didn't mean it would happen, DS believed for a lot longer and it was always me that had to break it that he wouldn't be there. I always joke that DH makes the promises and it's my shitty job to make the excuses! And I'd feel awful about it.

I'm sure he can completely forget about them frequently. Once he was collecting DS from somewhere but had to go to the supermarket on the way, and just went to the supermarket and came back! 🤣When we were delayed getting home from work eg the train lines were down, he would constantly fret about getting back for his hobby, and seemingly not think that DC were on their own for eg an hour longer than they were expecting (when they were tween/young teen)

SpecialMangeTout3 · 15/04/2025 12:21

can someone experience deep, mature, love if Theyre unable to experience empathy (as in putting yourself in someone else shoes) and struggle with emotional intimacy?

ShockedandStunnedRepeatedly · 15/04/2025 12:34

@Sweetandsaltycaroline

Sounds like this is the result of the one track mind that is focussed intensely on one thing . Once it switches the other thing is blanked out to permit that intense focus. Very difficult to hold competing parallel things front of mind.

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