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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I'm loathe to label anyone as a narcissist but... this is just fucking unbelievable...

139 replies

ThisIsJustShit · 21/03/2025 07:47

I started a thread in August last year about how my exh husband had shocked us all by trying to manipulate our daughter into not allowing me to take her up to university.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5141016-i-have-no-one-in-real-life-to-talk-about-this-with-please-help-me-to-feel-better-about-it?page=1

This week he has excelled himself.

Last month, he turned 50 and spent 2 weeks on holiday on the other side of the world. He wasn't at home for his birthday. Both children messaged him on the day wishing him a happy birthday and they hoped he was enjoying his holiday and they'd see him when he returned.

Our daughter is at university 200 miles away from home - in the end, he completely refused to travel up to move her up there claiming that he was ill 🙄 As I said in the previous thread, we split up when the children were young and have always co-parented amicably and had often patted ourselves on the back about having done a good job. We've never argued, never fallen out and things have always gone well.

Anyway, the problem this time was that the children hadn't sent him birthday cards and neither had anyone else in his family. I can only assume that this is because he was on the other side of the world on holiday because his family are very big on card giving. Both children had bought him cards/presents but were waiting to see him in person to give them.

Anyway, he sent them both very lengthy and angry diatribes this week about how sad and angry he was, how it was clear nobody loved him about how they had all neglected his 'special day', how he didn't want cards or gifts from them ever again and how they had set the tone now for the future of their relationship with him and he would respond in kind in future.

They both replied saying they were sorry he felt that way, both had cards and gifts but felt it was more meaningful to see him and give them in person. My daughter, in particular, also explained that she was really ill (she was and missed 2 weeks of uni and sporting practices and barely got out of bed) and had essays to still do. He basically said it was a poor show if she couldn't make the effort for his 'special day' and he meant what he said about never wanting cards from them again and that they had set the tone for the future of their relationship.

They are furious. The eldest sees their relationship as done and the youngest (daughter) has sent me screenshots of their various conversations over the years where he has been manipulative and down right cruel to her.

He kept bleating on about 'his truth' and how he has the right to tell people how they have made him feel.

He even sent our daughter an example of the text message he'd expected to receive from her (hers wasn't fawning enough apparently) along the lines of how sad she was at not being able to share his special day with him she missed him and wished she could have been with him on his 'special.day'. Her response to me was, "If I'd sent him something like that, he'd have had a go at me for making him feel guilty on his special day and wasn't he even able to go on holiday to celebrate his special day when I would have been 200 miles away on the day and wouldn't have seen him anyway.' And she's right. That's exactly what he'd have done because that's exactly what he does.

His messages are full of who always tells you that they love you more than anyone else does? Who took you to gymnastics every week and never let you down? And a lot of other things that she described as "just being a parent" although she mocked the "who always tell you they love you.." part saying that actions speak louder than words.

The reality is that he did take her to gymnastics once a week and I took her twice. He never attended a competition, never attended a dance show, never came to parents evening. He lets her down and prioritises himself constantly. He won't do anything for either of them unless it can get public recognition on SM.

The reality is also that he eventually refused to pick her up from work on his allocated nights (I did the others) and told her that if she got ubers, he'd pay her back. Only when this had gone on for a year and a half he told her the £800 that had accrued was too much and he wasn't going to pay. I had no idea of that and, as soon as I realised, my partner or I picked her up on 'his' nights instead.

The reality is that we split up when she was 6 and she never had a bedroom in his 3 bedroomed house because he wanted a cinema room. She had to sleep on a sofa bed that he didn't bother to unfold (so a sofa) in his spare room/office.

He even challenged her to think about whether there is anyone in her life who frequently let's her down and breaks their promises to her or showers her with empty words. She just laughed at that because her response to me was, "Yes, there is. It's him!"

Eg last weekend, she had a sporting competition in our home city. I went, my son went and my partner went. Her dad? Well, he texted her in the morning telling her he was 'ill', which is always his reason for letting her down. He believes she will forgive him and feel sympathetic towards him. In reality, she said it's too obvious a pattern. He makes great promises to her and then lets her down at the last minute because he's ill. But he's kicked off about a birthday card and a less than fawning text message.

He has no idea how much damage he is causing/has caused to his relationships with them. I think he is trying to create a FOG cycle with them but they have seen through this and are just furious with him. And upset.

I don't think I want advice as such, more somewhere to rant!

But fucking hell. I suppose I can understand him being disappointed he didn't have a pile.of cards to return to but his response to it was unbelievable.

I have no one in real life to talk about this with. Please help me to feel better about it. | Mumsnet

My daughter's dad and I separated when she was 6. He has since remarried. We've always been amicable but I've never been allowed to meet his new wife....

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5141016-i-have-no-one-in-real-life-to-talk-about-this-with-please-help-me-to-feel-better-about-it?page=1%5D%5D

OP posts:
GCAcademic · 21/03/2025 12:09

Whenever someone talks about "their truth" it's a massive red flag and a power play, imo. They're justifying manipulating and gaslighting everyone around them. If I come across anyone using that kind of language, I give them a very wide berth.

PeggyMitchellsCameo · 21/03/2025 12:10

OlivePeer · 21/03/2025 11:53

He sounds like King Lear.

Yes, with a bit of The Fool going on as well!

Cognacsoft · 21/03/2025 12:15

Your dc need only reply
’noted.’
He’s not worth engaging with.

pikkumyy77 · 21/03/2025 12:19

Deathraystare · 21/03/2025 09:14

They should be speaking to him about it, not you!

Thats not what speaking about it is for. Posting here, talking to each other or their mother, are firms of social solidarity and psychological processing that can be very healing and useful for the children and OP. There is no point speaking to the dad—or to Trump—they are very well defended against shame and self critical thought . That is what narcissism is—its a disorder of the personality in which the sufferer can not tolerate criticism or shame and their whole drive is to seek praise and avoid accepting criticism or responsibility.

AngelicKaty · 21/03/2025 12:23

Deathraystare · 21/03/2025 11:29

They as in the kids not her!!!

Yes, but you wrote "They should be speaking to him about it, not you!" And I'm pointing out to you that OP isn't talking to him about anything including this!

CautiousLurker01 · 21/03/2025 12:29

OlivePeer · 21/03/2025 11:53

He sounds like King Lear.

Reckon men like him have always walked amongst us. Shakespeare was probably tapping into his knowledge of similar, real-life men of his day. I imagine the stories of Henry VIII probably informed his view too.

DeclineandFall · 21/03/2025 12:49

i remember you origilal thread- your update isn't surprising.

I think you should mention it to your children that you think he has narcisistic traits and get them to look at some reputable souces online to see what you mean. Once they get a handle on this it will make his behaviour more understandable and give them tools to deal with it. I found this extremely helpful when my life was being upended with a lunatic. It makes it less personal. You are also less leikley to be blindsided by the nonsense.

One of the few people I know that I actually could swear on my life has NPD has been to all sorts of counselling but he doesnt tell them the truth, always blames someone else, is totally plausible and only goes back to the ones who say it isnt his fault.

monsterfish · 21/03/2025 12:54

At easy everyone now appears to be on the same page as for what a toy throwing man child he is.

as for 'how he didn't want cards or gifts from them ever again and how they had set the tone now for the future of their relationship with him and he would respond in kind in future.

that just requires a reply of - 'as you wish, bye.'

Easterbunnygettingsorted · 21/03/2025 12:57

Maybe dc should send a card with a 7 badge in the envelope...

Vroomfondleswaistcoat · 21/03/2025 13:03

Further to my previous post - one of my most satisfying days was hearing about how my middle DD (all the kids are adults now) gave her father both barrels. I obviously wasn't there or involved in any way, but every one of my kids gave me their version of what happened - and it was well deserved.

Middle DD has lived overseas for the last nine years and her father hasn't been out to visit her once. He goes on expensive overseas holidays every year but hasn't used one to visit his own daughter. Which is partly what prompted her losing it with him, when he asked her when she was coming to visit him and his girlfriend when she came over here.

pimplebum · 21/03/2025 13:05

They should go no contact

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 21/03/2025 13:09

DeclineandFall · 21/03/2025 12:49

i remember you origilal thread- your update isn't surprising.

I think you should mention it to your children that you think he has narcisistic traits and get them to look at some reputable souces online to see what you mean. Once they get a handle on this it will make his behaviour more understandable and give them tools to deal with it. I found this extremely helpful when my life was being upended with a lunatic. It makes it less personal. You are also less leikley to be blindsided by the nonsense.

One of the few people I know that I actually could swear on my life has NPD has been to all sorts of counselling but he doesnt tell them the truth, always blames someone else, is totally plausible and only goes back to the ones who say it isnt his fault.

I wouldn't care to suggest any sort of disorder. His behaviour is inexcusable and I'm sick of hearing the excuses (or reasons) made. There are none that are good enough.

If this man cannot get a handle on his behaviour for his children's sake then that's all there is to it. All the labels in the world won't make up for it.

Schoolchoicesucks · 21/03/2025 13:18

What a twat. No idea if he is a narcissist. Self-centred and self-absorbed certainly.
Was he expecting the cards and gifts to be sent to him where he was on holiday? Or to be piled up in the letterbox on his return?

The lack of bedroom, demanding of gratitude for doing some parenting, not being there reliably all show where his priorities lie.

I would be supporting your DC to see him for what he is, it is tough to accept that a parent is actually a bit shit when you've clung onto the idea of them as being "decent" for as long as possible. He'd get an "I'm sorry you feel that way" message and then standard birthday card with limited effort in ongoing relationship.

Schoolchoicesucks · 21/03/2025 13:25

Theunamedcat · 21/03/2025 08:24

He genuinely expects them to forgive him because they have done that in the past he will absolutely rage when they don't they need to block him and take him at his word

I feel for them though my ex always manipulates our eldest into believing he is the victim (of fresh air apparently) and that things are my fault DS raged at me on his brothers birthday because I had failed to remind dad so he had forgotten I don't usually dish it back at my son but I did this time I said he was there at his birth same as me his birthday is the same dam day each year and he even has it tattooed on his FUCKING ARM so don't tell me it's MY FAULT he forgot....I got a very small yes mum sorry mum... but how can he forget mum? He was realising that they just weren't important enough for a reminder on the phone or a note on the calendar and it was devastating to him now he is no contact with his dad at 16! It may or may not last but the blinkers are well and truly off

Well done for making your son see who was at fault here.

What kind of a twat forgets their own child's birthday. What even bigger kind of twat forgets when they have the date tattooed on their arm. And what absolute bellend tries to put the blame for forgetting onto the other parent. Thank goodness he is an ex.

ChaToilLeam · 21/03/2025 13:28

The man‘s a lost cause and I hope your kids can see that, and know it’s not their fault.

largeprintagathachristie · 21/03/2025 13:30

I feel like there’s been a run on here at the moment of apparently adult men acting like complete wankers because they don’t feel they’ve been sufficiently worshipped on their birthday.

One had many complaints, including that there were no birthday banners, FFS.

OriginalUsername2 · 21/03/2025 13:30

Your kids eyes are opening. You’ll all be better off in the end, with this knowledge between you. He sounds unreal!

MILLYmo0se · 21/03/2025 13:55

Screamingabdabz · 21/03/2025 08:55

I agree with the pp about piss taking. Your children are old enough now to call him out and laugh at the absurdity. I would certainly be encouraging them to respond in kind with ‘home truths’ and holding a mirror up to his batshittery. The best solution ultimately is to go NC though. Narcs are toxic and exhausting to live around - and he won’t change. They’d be better off cutting him out of their lives completely.

Ya, I'd be v tempted to encourage a reply to who took you to gymnastics with a 'you did dad' followed by a LONG list of 'who took/listened to/organised for me XYZ.... oh yes, its was mum.... Yet she doesn't hold that over my head, she says it's just what a good parent does?' 'I dunno, guess I will when I have kids of my own.....'

But yes really the best thing is to go NC

Omgblueskys · 21/03/2025 14:18

Teach you girls to ( gray rock ) him,
Sorry you feel this way ! And so on, hes wanting a reaction from them, what an awful prick he is, gray rock all the way

PeggyMitchellsCameo · 21/03/2025 14:19

largeprintagathachristie · 21/03/2025 13:30

I feel like there’s been a run on here at the moment of apparently adult men acting like complete wankers because they don’t feel they’ve been sufficiently worshipped on their birthday.

One had many complaints, including that there were no birthday banners, FFS.

Gosh I remember that one. The OP had book a lunch out and he had a shit fit there was no cooked breakfast two hours beforehand.
What an absolute waste of space.
Then I think he requested a running buffet for when they got home.

CameltoeParkerBowles · 21/03/2025 16:00

Fluffyholeysocks · 21/03/2025 07:58

If I was your daughter I take him at his word and say if he didn't want cards and gifts in the future they would abide by that. They are adults now, why should they play his ridiculous games. They had both got gifts for him, they both messaged on the date but that wasn't good enough for him ' on his special day' . He's not 5 for God's sake, he's a grown man away on holiday. What a pathetic man child.

Well, really. Quite apart from all his other disagreeable features, what kind of manbaby has a tantrum because his 50th birthday cards and gifts will be late, because HE elected to be away? What a twit.

ThisIsJustShit · 21/03/2025 18:02

Hi. Thanks for the replies! A vent helps and reading other people's disbelief and experienced has certainly helped!

To respond to a few general things. I've had no contact with him since his wedding about 2 and a half years ago. I'd sent him a message wishing them both luck the week before - such was the amicable nature of our relationship. He replied and thanked me. All fine. But it changed almost overnight. I knew he had these tendancies but didn't see them at all personally once we'd split up.

It all changed once he married though and he refused to have any contact with me at all, which is fine and it isn't necessary now the children are adults.

Both children responded to his initial tirade to tell him that they had got him cards etc but when he replied to them and was still just as vitriolic, neither of them replied. The eldest has been using grey rock for a few years with him. The youngest said she was going to do exactly what some on here suggested and reply pointing out the times he had let her down and behaved badly, and then just thought, do you know what? I can't be bothered. No response is a response and left it.

Neither of them have heard from him since and, as a pp said, probably won't until he contacts them with details of his latest health scare. The youngest has already said that the majority of messages she receives are seeking sympathy.

And yes, goes on a lot of holidays and is never too ill for those. It's simply never even a consideration or a concern that he might be too ill to go. Because he isn't really too ill to do anything he wants to do.

Anyway the eldest (a son, 27) has said that he just has no time for him anymore and won't be in contact with him and will keep responses to any messages brief. I'm not so sure about the youngest. 18 is quite young to give up on a parent completely. But she's no fool either.

She's already been back for a couple of weekends since she started uni and not told him so I think that speaks volumes.

OP posts:
ThisIsJustShit · 21/03/2025 18:05

And there's no point in them speaking to him about it because they both know what he's like when he's angry and he will never think they have a point. He won't entertain any opinion that paints him in a poor light from anyone ever.

It would be a complete waste of their time.

OP posts:
madaffodil · 21/03/2025 18:12

At least your dd now knows what a despicable fuckwitted narcissist looks like, and hopefully she'll never make the mistake of getting into a relationship with one.

DDDSSF223 · 22/03/2025 10:03

He sounds exactly like my twat of an Ex. Only there for the sympathy. Utter bore.

Last contact was at our daughter's wedding 18 months ago - didnt even bother to contact our sons on their birthdays this year and they were the last of the kids bothering with him.

It can break our hearts as mums that we have chosen these selfish men to be the fathers of our precious kids, but then tbh they weren't like that were they when we chose them (on the whole) or we would have run a mile!

All we can do is be the strong mums our kids know we are and "hold the line" - keep as we are and live our lives knowing truth ALWAYS outs.

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