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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I'm loathe to label anyone as a narcissist but... this is just fucking unbelievable...

139 replies

ThisIsJustShit · 21/03/2025 07:47

I started a thread in August last year about how my exh husband had shocked us all by trying to manipulate our daughter into not allowing me to take her up to university.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5141016-i-have-no-one-in-real-life-to-talk-about-this-with-please-help-me-to-feel-better-about-it?page=1

This week he has excelled himself.

Last month, he turned 50 and spent 2 weeks on holiday on the other side of the world. He wasn't at home for his birthday. Both children messaged him on the day wishing him a happy birthday and they hoped he was enjoying his holiday and they'd see him when he returned.

Our daughter is at university 200 miles away from home - in the end, he completely refused to travel up to move her up there claiming that he was ill 🙄 As I said in the previous thread, we split up when the children were young and have always co-parented amicably and had often patted ourselves on the back about having done a good job. We've never argued, never fallen out and things have always gone well.

Anyway, the problem this time was that the children hadn't sent him birthday cards and neither had anyone else in his family. I can only assume that this is because he was on the other side of the world on holiday because his family are very big on card giving. Both children had bought him cards/presents but were waiting to see him in person to give them.

Anyway, he sent them both very lengthy and angry diatribes this week about how sad and angry he was, how it was clear nobody loved him about how they had all neglected his 'special day', how he didn't want cards or gifts from them ever again and how they had set the tone now for the future of their relationship with him and he would respond in kind in future.

They both replied saying they were sorry he felt that way, both had cards and gifts but felt it was more meaningful to see him and give them in person. My daughter, in particular, also explained that she was really ill (she was and missed 2 weeks of uni and sporting practices and barely got out of bed) and had essays to still do. He basically said it was a poor show if she couldn't make the effort for his 'special day' and he meant what he said about never wanting cards from them again and that they had set the tone for the future of their relationship.

They are furious. The eldest sees their relationship as done and the youngest (daughter) has sent me screenshots of their various conversations over the years where he has been manipulative and down right cruel to her.

He kept bleating on about 'his truth' and how he has the right to tell people how they have made him feel.

He even sent our daughter an example of the text message he'd expected to receive from her (hers wasn't fawning enough apparently) along the lines of how sad she was at not being able to share his special day with him she missed him and wished she could have been with him on his 'special.day'. Her response to me was, "If I'd sent him something like that, he'd have had a go at me for making him feel guilty on his special day and wasn't he even able to go on holiday to celebrate his special day when I would have been 200 miles away on the day and wouldn't have seen him anyway.' And she's right. That's exactly what he'd have done because that's exactly what he does.

His messages are full of who always tells you that they love you more than anyone else does? Who took you to gymnastics every week and never let you down? And a lot of other things that she described as "just being a parent" although she mocked the "who always tell you they love you.." part saying that actions speak louder than words.

The reality is that he did take her to gymnastics once a week and I took her twice. He never attended a competition, never attended a dance show, never came to parents evening. He lets her down and prioritises himself constantly. He won't do anything for either of them unless it can get public recognition on SM.

The reality is also that he eventually refused to pick her up from work on his allocated nights (I did the others) and told her that if she got ubers, he'd pay her back. Only when this had gone on for a year and a half he told her the £800 that had accrued was too much and he wasn't going to pay. I had no idea of that and, as soon as I realised, my partner or I picked her up on 'his' nights instead.

The reality is that we split up when she was 6 and she never had a bedroom in his 3 bedroomed house because he wanted a cinema room. She had to sleep on a sofa bed that he didn't bother to unfold (so a sofa) in his spare room/office.

He even challenged her to think about whether there is anyone in her life who frequently let's her down and breaks their promises to her or showers her with empty words. She just laughed at that because her response to me was, "Yes, there is. It's him!"

Eg last weekend, she had a sporting competition in our home city. I went, my son went and my partner went. Her dad? Well, he texted her in the morning telling her he was 'ill', which is always his reason for letting her down. He believes she will forgive him and feel sympathetic towards him. In reality, she said it's too obvious a pattern. He makes great promises to her and then lets her down at the last minute because he's ill. But he's kicked off about a birthday card and a less than fawning text message.

He has no idea how much damage he is causing/has caused to his relationships with them. I think he is trying to create a FOG cycle with them but they have seen through this and are just furious with him. And upset.

I don't think I want advice as such, more somewhere to rant!

But fucking hell. I suppose I can understand him being disappointed he didn't have a pile.of cards to return to but his response to it was unbelievable.

I have no one in real life to talk about this with. Please help me to feel better about it. | Mumsnet

My daughter's dad and I separated when she was 6. He has since remarried. We've always been amicable but I've never been allowed to meet his new wife....

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5141016-i-have-no-one-in-real-life-to-talk-about-this-with-please-help-me-to-feel-better-about-it?page=1%5D%5D

OP posts:
bringonyourwreckingball · 21/03/2025 08:26

I have one of these as well. Dd2 finally broke down last night and said she wants nothing to do with him. He never puts himself out on any way for her and she sees it.

it is shit because no one has children hoping their co-parent is going to be a terrible father but all you can do is be there for them and try to fill the gap.

BobbyBiscuits · 21/03/2025 08:27

They should just ask him if his day was so special why did he choose to spend it thousands of miles away from his family. That a grown man moaning about not getting cards delivered to a luxury hotel in Barbados 'ruining his special day' quite frankly needs to see a psychiatrist.

He's a total bell end.

ilovesushi · 21/03/2025 08:41

He sounds appalling! Thank god you left him when you did and you have raised your DC to be so emotionally intelligent. I think it is interesting that your DD has made and kept screengrabs of his nasty comments to remind herself of his outrageously nasty behaviour. It must be incredibly hurtful for your DC but it sounds like they are very clearsighted about the situation.

I don't know if you encourage their relationship with him at all eg, reminding about birthdays, phonecalls, invites to events etc. If you do, now is the time to stop. It sounds like it would be healthier all round if they dropped their relationship with him to an absolute minimum or to zero contact.

FiveBarGate · 21/03/2025 08:44

On the plus side, these situations sometimes help you appreciate a step parent all the more.

My dad is not like this but is also tricky. It's fair to say I fully understand why my mum left him although they get on fine now.

Your children are angry (and presumably you are too) but overall it is less painful just to accept you have a dad with limitations. It can be emotionally difficult to be in conflict, even if there's no contact there.
Once they've calmed down I'd encourage them to think about what kind of relationship they want in the future. They know they can't rely on him but do they want some form of relationship? And if so they need to know their own boundaries and keep it to a more surface level.

They've seen through him but I think given you've learned strategies to be amicable with him you do have an important job in helping them to navigate this - entirely for their sake and not his.

I really respect my step dad and all he does for us in a non showy way. He is who my own kids see as their proper grandad.

MumCanIHaveASnackPlease · 21/03/2025 08:45

Your kids are adults and he’s a narcissist. It’s completely their decision but that this point the best thing they can do is block him and go NC. All you can do is support them to make the decision that’s right for them and let them know you are there for them.

Cluborange666 · 21/03/2025 08:51

He sounds vile. If he is a classic narc, he’ll stop speaking to them for a while but then he’ll pull them back in again. Narcs can’t bear to be ignored. They will fake a cancer scare or similar to get the attention back on them again. Warn your kids.

Also your kids need to read up on ‘grey rock’ as a technique to deal with his communication style. They might need therapy too.

I have a classic narc for a father and he has done a huge amount of harm to my family whilst all the time presenting himself to the world as a victim. They are dangerous people.

Easterbunnygettingsorted · 21/03/2025 08:52

Ime be very glad they have seen him for what he is before they go on to have dc of their own. My exh was very similar... I used to worry myself daft about whet he would be like with dgc..... Luckily he is dead and they have none yet. Very unfortunately they both sport huge DAD tattoos such was the number he did in them. The man who didn't feed them and physically abused them as small dc.. Papered over it with ££££ in their teen years..

I hope they never remember what he did.

AnyoneWhoHasAHeart · 21/03/2025 08:53

He kept bleating on about 'his truth' and how he has the right to tell people how they have made him feel. well, they have a trump card right there.

I’d be encouraging them to tell him about their truth and how they have a right to tell him how he makes them feel - and the way he makes them feel is that they think he’s a nobhead manchild who isn’t worth the name parent, needs to grow the fuck up, and no need to worry about being a parent any more because they won’t be seeing or speaking to him again.

And then block.

Obviously they may not choose to do that, but I’d like to hope they would, if not now then down the track.

Screamingabdabz · 21/03/2025 08:55

I agree with the pp about piss taking. Your children are old enough now to call him out and laugh at the absurdity. I would certainly be encouraging them to respond in kind with ‘home truths’ and holding a mirror up to his batshittery. The best solution ultimately is to go NC though. Narcs are toxic and exhausting to live around - and he won’t change. They’d be better off cutting him out of their lives completely.

pinkfondu · 21/03/2025 08:55

Well the day they finally had enough was always going to come

3catsandcounting · 21/03/2025 09:00

Unless he’s been diagnosed (between 1-2% of the population in UK) then he’s not a Narcissist. Labelling him with a mental disorder is allowing him to behave appallingly, when he’s actually just a nasty, manipulative arse who should be ignored.

EdithBond · 21/03/2025 09:04

When kids have a relationship with an ex who’s been toxic/abusive to you, they inevitably eventually come to a similar conclusion as you did.

His behaviour is very immature and self-important. Try to laugh about it if you can. What an a-hole.

AthWat · 21/03/2025 09:06

Anyone over the age of 12 who makes a big fuss about their birthday is an idiot.

PsychoHotSauce · 21/03/2025 09:07

Your DC will come to dryly laugh at his antics in time. That's what I do with my dad. He's so predictable I even tell my best friend exactly what he's going to do/say before he does it, it's a running joke.

They may need some time to reconcile with how he is, and what a disappointment he is. But they'll get there.

StrawberryDream24 · 21/03/2025 09:07

3catsandcounting · 21/03/2025 09:00

Unless he’s been diagnosed (between 1-2% of the population in UK) then he’s not a Narcissist. Labelling him with a mental disorder is allowing him to behave appallingly, when he’s actually just a nasty, manipulative arse who should be ignored.

Wouldn't a symptom of NPD be that you're unlikely to get diagnosed (!)

Vroomfondleswaistcoat · 21/03/2025 09:07

The best message your kids can send back is the good old Thumbs Up! When he doesn't get showered with gifts on his next birthday they can copy and paste his 'I never want anything from you ever again' message and send it back to him when he asks where his presents are (as he will because he will say that he never expected them to take it seriously; he was angry and just wanted them to appreciate what they'd done...etc etc'.

Fortunately in my family (with a similar XH), it took the kids about five minutes to see through him, shortly after we separated and he moved hundreds of miles away and saw them once a year. He tried the 'I'm always there for you' trick too. Whilst hundreds of miles away.

The kids know what's what. Just be their sounding board for now.

BeeCucumber · 21/03/2025 09:08

Time to send a 👍 and block.

StrawberryDream24 · 21/03/2025 09:10

Chooses to spend his birthday thousands of miles away from his kids.

Expects his kids to shower him with gifts (before he goes?) or shower him with messages and attention while he's thousands of miles away, not spending it with them, by choice.

This is encapsulated by a phrase I use re. my NPD relative "I should be your priority, while you are not mine".

Deathraystare · 21/03/2025 09:14

ThisIsJustShit · 21/03/2025 07:58

I have moved on. I don't speak to him at all but I had two very angry and upset people on the phone to me the other evening and seeing as those people are my children and I'm concerned about them...

Edited

They should be speaking to him about it, not you!

TheListThatNeverEnds · 21/03/2025 09:18

OP I think you should just be proud that you've got two resilient, intelligent, and switched on kids who are able to see through his games at so early an age. It can be very hard to see these people for what they are, but particularly when it's your parent. And well done to you and your partner for being better than their waste of space DF

Cucy · 21/03/2025 09:20

Anyway, he sent them both very lengthy and angry diatribes this week about how sad and angry he was, how it was clear nobody loved him about how they had all neglected his 'special day', how he didn't want cards or gifts from them ever again and how they had set the tone now for the future of their relationship with him and he would respond in kind in future.

I actually laughed out loud when reading this. Not because it’s funny but because it’s so pathetic!

He is a man child and his behaviour is embarrassing.

BobbyBiscuits · 21/03/2025 09:22

I've known at least one narcissist. And they wouldn't ever seek therapy or help so would never be diagnosed as they think they're absolutely perfect. They will lie and say bad things about others but nothing is ever their fault. They can show no weakness. Everyone else is bitter, jealous and a troll and can't handle the pressure of being around a genius...I think is what's going on in their head?

BunnyLake · 21/03/2025 09:25

Picklepower · 21/03/2025 08:18

He's hideous and I'm glad your daughters are old enough to see him for what he is. Grown man throwing tantrum about 'no piles of cards' is so cringe.

Isn’t it just. My ex has narc traits and would stomp about in toddler/teenage tantrums often (and silent treatment), very very unattractive in a grown man of 40s/50s. Once we were separated he complained bitterly to me because I hadn’t let him know there had been a half term (not deliberate, he just wasn't on my radar). It didn’t occur to him that it’s his responsibility and within his capabilities to keep a record of school holidays.

I never bad mouthed him to the kids growing up but as they got older they were able to work out for themselves his character failings. He’s not as bad as OP’s ex though, he sounds an utter twonk.

3catsandcounting · 21/03/2025 09:29

StrawberryDream24 · 21/03/2025 09:07

Wouldn't a symptom of NPD be that you're unlikely to get diagnosed (!)

Yes, I think you’re right, and that’s why the figures are so low. But my reasoning still stands that a mental disorder is something that we should try to understand and support, and I don’t believe that the behaviour of this man is deserving of that.

Luxecalmeetvolupte · 21/03/2025 09:30

My father is like this. It took me until my mid 30s to realise. Cut the ties because whatever I did I was always wrong. My brother has stayed in limited contact and just gets periodically hurt and furious instead. I think it's great they've seen through him at this stage, they should take him at his word and protect their own mental health and adult lives above all else.