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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I'm loathe to label anyone as a narcissist but... this is just fucking unbelievable...

139 replies

ThisIsJustShit · 21/03/2025 07:47

I started a thread in August last year about how my exh husband had shocked us all by trying to manipulate our daughter into not allowing me to take her up to university.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5141016-i-have-no-one-in-real-life-to-talk-about-this-with-please-help-me-to-feel-better-about-it?page=1

This week he has excelled himself.

Last month, he turned 50 and spent 2 weeks on holiday on the other side of the world. He wasn't at home for his birthday. Both children messaged him on the day wishing him a happy birthday and they hoped he was enjoying his holiday and they'd see him when he returned.

Our daughter is at university 200 miles away from home - in the end, he completely refused to travel up to move her up there claiming that he was ill 🙄 As I said in the previous thread, we split up when the children were young and have always co-parented amicably and had often patted ourselves on the back about having done a good job. We've never argued, never fallen out and things have always gone well.

Anyway, the problem this time was that the children hadn't sent him birthday cards and neither had anyone else in his family. I can only assume that this is because he was on the other side of the world on holiday because his family are very big on card giving. Both children had bought him cards/presents but were waiting to see him in person to give them.

Anyway, he sent them both very lengthy and angry diatribes this week about how sad and angry he was, how it was clear nobody loved him about how they had all neglected his 'special day', how he didn't want cards or gifts from them ever again and how they had set the tone now for the future of their relationship with him and he would respond in kind in future.

They both replied saying they were sorry he felt that way, both had cards and gifts but felt it was more meaningful to see him and give them in person. My daughter, in particular, also explained that she was really ill (she was and missed 2 weeks of uni and sporting practices and barely got out of bed) and had essays to still do. He basically said it was a poor show if she couldn't make the effort for his 'special day' and he meant what he said about never wanting cards from them again and that they had set the tone for the future of their relationship.

They are furious. The eldest sees their relationship as done and the youngest (daughter) has sent me screenshots of their various conversations over the years where he has been manipulative and down right cruel to her.

He kept bleating on about 'his truth' and how he has the right to tell people how they have made him feel.

He even sent our daughter an example of the text message he'd expected to receive from her (hers wasn't fawning enough apparently) along the lines of how sad she was at not being able to share his special day with him she missed him and wished she could have been with him on his 'special.day'. Her response to me was, "If I'd sent him something like that, he'd have had a go at me for making him feel guilty on his special day and wasn't he even able to go on holiday to celebrate his special day when I would have been 200 miles away on the day and wouldn't have seen him anyway.' And she's right. That's exactly what he'd have done because that's exactly what he does.

His messages are full of who always tells you that they love you more than anyone else does? Who took you to gymnastics every week and never let you down? And a lot of other things that she described as "just being a parent" although she mocked the "who always tell you they love you.." part saying that actions speak louder than words.

The reality is that he did take her to gymnastics once a week and I took her twice. He never attended a competition, never attended a dance show, never came to parents evening. He lets her down and prioritises himself constantly. He won't do anything for either of them unless it can get public recognition on SM.

The reality is also that he eventually refused to pick her up from work on his allocated nights (I did the others) and told her that if she got ubers, he'd pay her back. Only when this had gone on for a year and a half he told her the £800 that had accrued was too much and he wasn't going to pay. I had no idea of that and, as soon as I realised, my partner or I picked her up on 'his' nights instead.

The reality is that we split up when she was 6 and she never had a bedroom in his 3 bedroomed house because he wanted a cinema room. She had to sleep on a sofa bed that he didn't bother to unfold (so a sofa) in his spare room/office.

He even challenged her to think about whether there is anyone in her life who frequently let's her down and breaks their promises to her or showers her with empty words. She just laughed at that because her response to me was, "Yes, there is. It's him!"

Eg last weekend, she had a sporting competition in our home city. I went, my son went and my partner went. Her dad? Well, he texted her in the morning telling her he was 'ill', which is always his reason for letting her down. He believes she will forgive him and feel sympathetic towards him. In reality, she said it's too obvious a pattern. He makes great promises to her and then lets her down at the last minute because he's ill. But he's kicked off about a birthday card and a less than fawning text message.

He has no idea how much damage he is causing/has caused to his relationships with them. I think he is trying to create a FOG cycle with them but they have seen through this and are just furious with him. And upset.

I don't think I want advice as such, more somewhere to rant!

But fucking hell. I suppose I can understand him being disappointed he didn't have a pile.of cards to return to but his response to it was unbelievable.

I have no one in real life to talk about this with. Please help me to feel better about it. | Mumsnet

My daughter's dad and I separated when she was 6. He has since remarried. We've always been amicable but I've never been allowed to meet his new wife....

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5141016-i-have-no-one-in-real-life-to-talk-about-this-with-please-help-me-to-feel-better-about-it?page=1%5D%5D

OP posts:
AngelicKaty · 21/03/2025 10:43

Deathraystare · 21/03/2025 09:14

They should be speaking to him about it, not you!

You wrote this in reply to OP's post which literally contained the words "I don't speak to him at all". What part of that don't you understand?

AngelicKaty · 21/03/2025 10:44

AthWat · 21/03/2025 09:06

Anyone over the age of 12 who makes a big fuss about their birthday is an idiot.

So a 13yr old looking forward to their birthday "is an idiot"? OK then. 🙄

PsychoHotSauce · 21/03/2025 10:45

Namechangefordaughterevasion · 21/03/2025 10:23

I totally get that you need to rant but don't kid yourself you have moved on. The fact that he is still taking up so much of your headspace is a clear indication that he is still pulling your strings.

Carry on being the loving, supportive parent you are to your DC. Dont interfere in their relationship with him. They need to work that out for themselves.

One day he will pull a stunt like this and your response will be an eye roll and a resigned 'still a total arse then'. Then you will know you have moved on.

I disagree. I think this is a response appropriate to feeling protective of her kids. Doesn't matter how old they are.

I get the impression that if she'd been on the receiving end of these dramatics it wouldn't have bothered her one bit, it's just because her DC are seeing the light about him that she's known for years but hasn't slagged him off to DC. Now she probably feels angry, sad, guilty etc and it's fine to get it all off her chest without being accused of "not moving on".

babymamalove · 21/03/2025 10:47

God what a loser
I have a narc dad so I empathise

mcmooberry · 21/03/2025 10:48

I have read your previous thread and this and agree he is awful, however I would also be disappointed to return from my holidays after my 50th birthday and find no cards waiting for me! I regularly am away for my birthday in the middle of the summer holidays and return to a pile of cards.

Lurkingandlearning · 21/03/2025 10:56

I hope your daughters just reply “okey dokey”. That’s my favourite response to arseholes because it manages to be both dismissive and mocking. Or 👍 which apparently can be sarcasm. Then let him permanently stew alone in his truth.

I imagine you will be very relieved when they finally go NC

OnARainyDay2012 · 21/03/2025 10:57

This sounds so familiar. My dad was exactly like this. Always expecting me to make the effort, always letting me down. In sharp contrast to the many other wonderful men in my life (DH, grandad, FIL). I'm no contact with him now and don't feel anything lacking in my life. My dad still acts like the injured party and "doesn't understand" my decision.

AngelicKaty · 21/03/2025 10:59

Azureshores · 21/03/2025 10:40

She allowed to talk about it and the damage it's doing to her kids ffs.

I agree. It's weird that some people on here don't understand that venting about an event (rather than internalising it) is the start of the process of "moving on". I think it's great that @ThisIsJustShit started a 'Venting/No advice needed' thread so she can get this all off her chest outside of her family group and get the support of MN users (not that she needs it really - she sounds like a fantastic mum! 😃).

femfemlicious · 21/03/2025 11:01

He sounds just like my ex. Very selfish, manipulative and doesn't care what damage he does💔

Manthide · 21/03/2025 11:03

AthWat · 21/03/2025 09:06

Anyone over the age of 12 who makes a big fuss about their birthday is an idiot.

Dm was 81 last year and is obsessed about cards. Last year she said how disappointed she was that none of my 4dc had sent her one. They had all called her and messaged her to wish her a happy birthday. We are not big card givers but appreciate that she is. Dd1 had had her first dc a week before, dd2 had had a traumatic miscarriage at the same time that necessitated hospital admission, ds is at uni and as dd3 is still at school I put their names in my card. She sent them all very pointed messages!

bigfacthunter · 21/03/2025 11:08

id go but in the knowledge of that I’m going to have the least relaxing time keeping him entertained and safe. But that’s just life with a two year old!

DDDSSF223 · 21/03/2025 11:12

Theunamedcat · 21/03/2025 08:24

He genuinely expects them to forgive him because they have done that in the past he will absolutely rage when they don't they need to block him and take him at his word

I feel for them though my ex always manipulates our eldest into believing he is the victim (of fresh air apparently) and that things are my fault DS raged at me on his brothers birthday because I had failed to remind dad so he had forgotten I don't usually dish it back at my son but I did this time I said he was there at his birth same as me his birthday is the same dam day each year and he even has it tattooed on his FUCKING ARM so don't tell me it's MY FAULT he forgot....I got a very small yes mum sorry mum... but how can he forget mum? He was realising that they just weren't important enough for a reminder on the phone or a note on the calendar and it was devastating to him now he is no contact with his dad at 16! It may or may not last but the blinkers are well and truly off

Amazing response - well done
his birthday is the same dam day each year and he even has it tattooed on his FUCKING ARM - 😂

TonTonMacoute · 21/03/2025 11:16

Fuuuuuckit · 21/03/2025 07:53

It's good they're finally seeing him for the shit dad he is.

Mine took a few years longer than id hoped, but now both adult and barely communicate with him.

This. He has completely fucked up his relationship with his adult children and you haven't had to stoop to anything underhand. He's done it all on his own.

I hope he enjoys his sad and lonely old age!

Sadly, I know that it never as simple as this and I know several people who still yearn to have a happy relationship with a selfish, self-absorbed parent who can never be pleased or satisfied. I hope that your children are able to realise this is is no way their fault or responsibility.

Deathraystare · 21/03/2025 11:29

AngelicKaty · 21/03/2025 10:43

You wrote this in reply to OP's post which literally contained the words "I don't speak to him at all". What part of that don't you understand?

They as in the kids not her!!!

MargueriteInBloom · 21/03/2025 11:37

ThisIsJustShit · 21/03/2025 07:59

I totally agree and that's what they've both said.

Which means somehow you’ve managed to parent them well and teach them about boundaries rather constantly fawning.

im pretty sure after the anger, they’ll both be really sad/grieving for the dad they didn’t get.
And you’ll be the one picking up the pieces…..

MrsSkylerWhite · 21/03/2025 11:38

Wanker. Hope he enjoys being a sad and lonely wanker in older age.

MargueriteInBloom · 21/03/2025 11:40

Deathraystare · 21/03/2025 11:29

They as in the kids not her!!!

I’m not sure there is any point about the dcs speaking to their dad more than they already have.
What do you think it would do? Any positive impact?

The reality is that the best they can do is to go NC, just like the OP has (well as much as she could whilst sharing two dcs either him).
But this is a really harder thing to do. And pretty normal for them to lean on the person who has their back - the OP.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 21/03/2025 11:44

mcmooberry · 21/03/2025 10:48

I have read your previous thread and this and agree he is awful, however I would also be disappointed to return from my holidays after my 50th birthday and find no cards waiting for me! I regularly am away for my birthday in the middle of the summer holidays and return to a pile of cards.

Well if you would behave like this excuse for a father then you too would be a twat. I'm guessing that you don't so why you've inserted your own irrelevant and hypothetical scenario into this really sad situation is a mystery.

Hoppinggreen · 21/03/2025 11:45

mcmooberry · 21/03/2025 10:48

I have read your previous thread and this and agree he is awful, however I would also be disappointed to return from my holidays after my 50th birthday and find no cards waiting for me! I regularly am away for my birthday in the middle of the summer holidays and return to a pile of cards.

Really?
Would you also fly into a Narc rage about it ?

Citycathedral · 21/03/2025 11:48

My now 23 yr old Dd was in hospital when she was 16, MH problems, she found out her dad (my ex) had been telling people what she was in hospital for, obviously he said it was out of concern for her etc that he had told people, which in turn people at her school then found out. She was so upset and then refused for him to know anything else about her health which at that age she was well within her rights to decide.

He then started on me to tell him, ‘I have rights’ etc. I wouldn’t tell him, he didn’t like it got very angry screaming at me and throwing stuff around, and then text her telling her he disowned her and wanted nothing more to do with her.

Since then their relationship is basically over, she did let him visit her twice, but then he refused to after that and after a lot of heartbreak from her she doesn’t want anything to do with him. She is now doing really well, has a lovely fiancé, they moved in together last year, and he is missing out on an amazing girl because he had to make it all about him.

CautiousLurker01 · 21/03/2025 11:51

I was a little older when I realised that I was never going to be able handle the mind games and manipulation of my mum. It ended with a similar written diatribe. - a 20page handwritten abusive letter detailing how awful, racist (?!), deceitful and ungrateful I was. My DH (to be at that time, because it was my failure to send a wedding invite 15m before the date that tipped her over) had always thought my stories about my childhood/mother were tinged with a heavy dose of exaggeration and probably just typical mum/daughter angst. He face lost all colour when he read her letter, he didn’t get past p7.

At that point he said, do you really want this woman in your life once we have children? Do we want to be crying after every phonecall, ranting for days because of yet another drama? Do we want our kids to have this? We decided not and I refused to speak to her again. She died about 7 years later and though I cried for the fact that she never realised/apologised for how spiteful she was (so I never got closure) and I was deeply sad that she had three children who had been desperate to love her and have a positive relationship, she died alone. Found by a lodger. I never think about her now other than when I have days when I think I am the shittiest mother on the planet and am getting everything wrong. She may not be the best benchmark, but knowing I’ll never plumb those depths has been a salve at times.

I hope your kids will realise that their ‘D’F’s failings are no reflection on them, of how lovable and worthy of being loved they are. He is just a dick. Sometimes, to block and move on is the only course of action in order to protect yourself and your own family. It sounds as though they have a great mum to fall back on and having one great parent is often more than enough.

OlivePeer · 21/03/2025 11:53

He sounds like King Lear.

OneBrightBiscuit · 21/03/2025 12:02

AthWat · 21/03/2025 09:06

Anyone over the age of 12 who makes a big fuss about their birthday is an idiot.

I know a middle-aged adult who insists on having a "birthday week". Days off work, multiple events/festivities, because one day apparently isn't enough. I find it beyond self-indulgent. I've pointed out that (a) "birthday weeks" are not a thing, and (b) even the monarch gets by with just 2 days.

I also vividly remember my mother having hysterics because "we" had forgotten her birthday. I was 4 or 5 years old. She'd have been 37/38. She really should have gotten over herself.

It brings out the worst in some people.

GeordiesWonTheCup · 21/03/2025 12:05

W0tnow · 21/03/2025 08:14

I remember your original thread!

Yes, I remember it too, OP. I thought he was a prize prat then, and he’s really excelled himself now!

Hells Bells 😱 what is it with grown adults creating dramas over “special” birthdays?? It comes across as so childish and self-centred.

Surely, you discuss doing something before the bloody birthday, book it and crack on? If adults can cope with all the life admin we have, like bill-paying, attending work, tax returns, food shopping, transport etc, then we can certainly sort out something that the people involved are happy with.
If he’s chosen to be on the other side of the world on his “special” day, then your DC are quite correct in waiting til he gets home for his presents and cards.
How utterly mean and idiotic he is, ruining their relationship with him over this. As a parent, you can’t drag up “all the things I did for you” it’s very unfair! It’s just part of what we do as parents!

He comes across as silly childish and vindictive, OP.
Is he in India or Thailand by any chance? This “my truth” nonsense sounds a bit hippy? 🙄

TonTonMacoute · 21/03/2025 12:07

mcmooberry · 21/03/2025 10:48

I have read your previous thread and this and agree he is awful, however I would also be disappointed to return from my holidays after my 50th birthday and find no cards waiting for me! I regularly am away for my birthday in the middle of the summer holidays and return to a pile of cards.

Both DCs have told him that they have cards and presents for him, and were looking forward to giving them to him in person when he got home!