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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I'm loathe to label anyone as a narcissist but... this is just fucking unbelievable...

139 replies

ThisIsJustShit · 21/03/2025 07:47

I started a thread in August last year about how my exh husband had shocked us all by trying to manipulate our daughter into not allowing me to take her up to university.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5141016-i-have-no-one-in-real-life-to-talk-about-this-with-please-help-me-to-feel-better-about-it?page=1

This week he has excelled himself.

Last month, he turned 50 and spent 2 weeks on holiday on the other side of the world. He wasn't at home for his birthday. Both children messaged him on the day wishing him a happy birthday and they hoped he was enjoying his holiday and they'd see him when he returned.

Our daughter is at university 200 miles away from home - in the end, he completely refused to travel up to move her up there claiming that he was ill 🙄 As I said in the previous thread, we split up when the children were young and have always co-parented amicably and had often patted ourselves on the back about having done a good job. We've never argued, never fallen out and things have always gone well.

Anyway, the problem this time was that the children hadn't sent him birthday cards and neither had anyone else in his family. I can only assume that this is because he was on the other side of the world on holiday because his family are very big on card giving. Both children had bought him cards/presents but were waiting to see him in person to give them.

Anyway, he sent them both very lengthy and angry diatribes this week about how sad and angry he was, how it was clear nobody loved him about how they had all neglected his 'special day', how he didn't want cards or gifts from them ever again and how they had set the tone now for the future of their relationship with him and he would respond in kind in future.

They both replied saying they were sorry he felt that way, both had cards and gifts but felt it was more meaningful to see him and give them in person. My daughter, in particular, also explained that she was really ill (she was and missed 2 weeks of uni and sporting practices and barely got out of bed) and had essays to still do. He basically said it was a poor show if she couldn't make the effort for his 'special day' and he meant what he said about never wanting cards from them again and that they had set the tone for the future of their relationship.

They are furious. The eldest sees their relationship as done and the youngest (daughter) has sent me screenshots of their various conversations over the years where he has been manipulative and down right cruel to her.

He kept bleating on about 'his truth' and how he has the right to tell people how they have made him feel.

He even sent our daughter an example of the text message he'd expected to receive from her (hers wasn't fawning enough apparently) along the lines of how sad she was at not being able to share his special day with him she missed him and wished she could have been with him on his 'special.day'. Her response to me was, "If I'd sent him something like that, he'd have had a go at me for making him feel guilty on his special day and wasn't he even able to go on holiday to celebrate his special day when I would have been 200 miles away on the day and wouldn't have seen him anyway.' And she's right. That's exactly what he'd have done because that's exactly what he does.

His messages are full of who always tells you that they love you more than anyone else does? Who took you to gymnastics every week and never let you down? And a lot of other things that she described as "just being a parent" although she mocked the "who always tell you they love you.." part saying that actions speak louder than words.

The reality is that he did take her to gymnastics once a week and I took her twice. He never attended a competition, never attended a dance show, never came to parents evening. He lets her down and prioritises himself constantly. He won't do anything for either of them unless it can get public recognition on SM.

The reality is also that he eventually refused to pick her up from work on his allocated nights (I did the others) and told her that if she got ubers, he'd pay her back. Only when this had gone on for a year and a half he told her the £800 that had accrued was too much and he wasn't going to pay. I had no idea of that and, as soon as I realised, my partner or I picked her up on 'his' nights instead.

The reality is that we split up when she was 6 and she never had a bedroom in his 3 bedroomed house because he wanted a cinema room. She had to sleep on a sofa bed that he didn't bother to unfold (so a sofa) in his spare room/office.

He even challenged her to think about whether there is anyone in her life who frequently let's her down and breaks their promises to her or showers her with empty words. She just laughed at that because her response to me was, "Yes, there is. It's him!"

Eg last weekend, she had a sporting competition in our home city. I went, my son went and my partner went. Her dad? Well, he texted her in the morning telling her he was 'ill', which is always his reason for letting her down. He believes she will forgive him and feel sympathetic towards him. In reality, she said it's too obvious a pattern. He makes great promises to her and then lets her down at the last minute because he's ill. But he's kicked off about a birthday card and a less than fawning text message.

He has no idea how much damage he is causing/has caused to his relationships with them. I think he is trying to create a FOG cycle with them but they have seen through this and are just furious with him. And upset.

I don't think I want advice as such, more somewhere to rant!

But fucking hell. I suppose I can understand him being disappointed he didn't have a pile.of cards to return to but his response to it was unbelievable.

I have no one in real life to talk about this with. Please help me to feel better about it. | Mumsnet

My daughter's dad and I separated when she was 6. He has since remarried. We've always been amicable but I've never been allowed to meet his new wife....

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5141016-i-have-no-one-in-real-life-to-talk-about-this-with-please-help-me-to-feel-better-about-it?page=1%5D%5D

OP posts:
bibliomania · 21/03/2025 09:35

Once the indignation dies down, this should be a relief to you and your dcs. A blow-up like this can ultimately be helpful as it brings it all to a head instead of having it linger on for years. Solidarity from someone with a very similar ex!

godmum56 · 21/03/2025 09:35

I am not sure why any of you stay in contact?

PullTheBricksDown · 21/03/2025 09:35

AthWat · 21/03/2025 09:06

Anyone over the age of 12 who makes a big fuss about their birthday is an idiot.

I don't agree with this necessarily, but this guy has certainly been a right idiot - and use of the phrase 'my special day' is also a marker of that.

PeggyMitchellsCameo · 21/03/2025 09:40

I read your last thread and knew straight away he wouldn’t take your daughter to Uni whether you went or not.
As for his wife it’s seriously strange you have never met. Weird. My OH has three DC and I love them and I have no kids. The kids are adults now so don’t need to have a room with us specifically, but there is a spare room if it’s needed. If they had have been younger there is no way I’d have any child on a sofa bed. It’s awful. As a young girl you need a bit of privacy as well.
This man and his illness? How come he’s managed to go abroad for 2 weeks then? Pretty good going.
As for cards and presents if I was away I’d want to have them back home.
Lord help you all if your daughter gets married. Dad will offer to pay for the dress and then not pay. And be prepared OP you will end up walking her down the aisle.
As your DC get older they will just learn more about who he is as an adult and pull away.
If my OH sent messages like that to his DC I would not want to touch him with a barge pole.

Scottishskifun · 21/03/2025 09:51

I would reframe this with your adult kids for them not to rise to it and for them to read about the grey rock treatment if it is making them unhappy.

In regards to your daughter it's a simple well you now know the flags for your future relationships and see this as building resilience to these types of tactics.

Ultimately its him who loses out!

EdithStourton · 21/03/2025 09:54

My father did something similar to me once.
That was it. Our already rocky relationship never recovered. I went what would now be called low contact.

It sounds as if OP's DC have very much woken up to what their father is like. It might take them a long time to completely untangle all their feelings about it.

BeholdOurButterStinketh · 21/03/2025 09:54

Even the 'his truth' thing is seriously weird.

You normally use that phrase (out of their earshot) when referring to somebody with severe mental health problems, dementia etc. - as a way to convey the fact that they are telling you something that is not true, but that they are not deliberately lying or seeking to deceive you, as they genuinely believe it themselves.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe · 21/03/2025 09:58

It's better to have no father at all than one who can lob spite-bombs at his children.

I would see if your children want to speak to somebody professional about this to come to terms with the end of the relationship with their father because it will likely never recover.

I had a crap father too but he wasn't spiteful. Whatever your ex is, he's going to regret this in years to come. My father did but it was too late. He died in a home and nobody went.

Your children will be ok, they have you. I am sorry to read your post, it's harrowing in your ex's determination to manipulate the people he should love the most.

Hexadecimal · 21/03/2025 10:00

He sounds an absolute horror, OP. I remember your thread last year and felt for you so much. I can understand your need to rant and don't really have any advice.

Though I feel sorry for your poor kids having to deal with him, they are lucky they have you; you sound very sane and capable, and loving! And it's good they are at least recognising him for who he is. They will be ok, OP.

ohfourfoxache · 21/03/2025 10:01

I don’t say this lightly (mainly because you’re likely to be blamed for it) but I think I’d be advising you DC to go NC….

Qmalrg · 21/03/2025 10:03

My father is similar, parents divorced - only I am your age with my own kids at uni.

It took me decades of peacekeeping and trying to smooth shit over with my father before I accepted that he was just simply horrible/selfish/self obsessed/narc/whatever. 5 years ago, I finally quit and don't speak to him anymore. Life is much better.

I think that you need to help your kids navigate this so it doesn't take them decades of torture. I agree that the first step is grey rock and you need to teach them how to do it. They also need to accept that they will never have a father that truly loves them and puts them first - no matter how many chances they give him - it isn't him.

Tell them not to engage with any of his abusive messages, don't talk back. Write something neutral back or don't reply at all. Start cutting down his access to information. DD has a sports event? Don't tell him. He picks her up on it? Reply "it's fine".

Accepting that your parent is like this is bloody hard. My DB has also cut my father off, but my other sibling feels guilty and still sees him. Every single time, my father makes my sibling feel like shit, but sibling can't deal with the guilt or accept that our father just isn't a proper father. We have a proper mother, like your kids have you, so really, it's OK.

Qmalrg · 21/03/2025 10:06

ohfourfoxache · 21/03/2025 10:01

I don’t say this lightly (mainly because you’re likely to be blamed for it) but I think I’d be advising you DC to go NC….

It's the right advice, but just do it gradually. Grey rock first, build to NC.

MzHz · 21/03/2025 10:07

Wow, well he’s just given them the biggest gift of all, “His Truth”. Now they know it’s not them, that nothing they do/don’t do would make the slightest difference

they can walk away now and leave him to figure it all out.

keep talking to them, (I know you will) they’ll work their way through this, and actually they will probably now begin to unravel all the other events they went through previously that they blamed themselves for, and maybe now can see it wasn’t them, it wasn’t ever them.

now the healing can begin

MzHz · 21/03/2025 10:09

And agreed, there’s no point in them replying, it’ll just make things worse for them.

(but zero response will totally fuck him off…. 🤣)

Fruhstuck · 21/03/2025 10:10

ThisIsJustShit · 21/03/2025 07:57

And, yes, he has to be the hero.or victim sums him up completely.

He was like that with me although I didn't realise at the time. He even had therapy after we split up and acknowledged it but I think the 'my truth' and having the right to tell people how they made him feel was something he got from therapy too.

Does he extend the right to talk about "my truth" to others? I know it might not be wise but I wouldn't blame his children if they felt like telling him "their truths", with all the things you have mentioned about the way he has treated his daughter.

AngelicKaty · 21/03/2025 10:20

@ThisIsJustShit I totally understand your need to vent on MN OP - your EXH is a monumental, certifiable prick! (I'm genuinely astonished you've been able to co-parent so amicably for so long, so kudos to you for that.) Your DC sound significantly more mature than their own father and I'm so glad they see his behaviour for what it is, as I have two people in my social circle who are treated this way by their fathers and they have got trapped in a cycle of repeatedly going back to their fathers, trying to maintain contact and please them (they never will, of course) and it's caused huge damage to their self-esteem as they never feel good enough. (I'm guessing your EXH doesn't realise, amongst other things, how incredibly cruel he's being to his DC?) I hope both your DC quietly go NC with him and if/when he contacts them again, they can tell him their truth about how his appalling behaviour has affected them and that they are now doing what he's asked - which has the added benefit of protecting themselves from him!

swimlyn · 21/03/2025 10:21

"...and he meant what he said about never wanting cards from them again and that they had set the tone for the future of their relationship."

What a tool he is. HE is the one that has set the tone for the future of their relationship.

HectorPlasm · 21/03/2025 10:21

Any adult who sulks about a birthday after the age of 18 is a twat

HectorPlasm · 21/03/2025 10:23

oops - just read this!

AthWat · Today 09:06
Anyone over the age of 12 who makes a big fuss about their birthday is an idiot.

Apreslapluielesoleil · 21/03/2025 10:23

He’s my reincarnated mother. And you’re right , has to be the hero or the victim.

Your dc have the right to go low nc or nc with him and irs their decision and choice.
Narcissistic people are damaging, I didn’t realise the full extent of the damage my mother had done until I started reading MN so I wouldn’t minimise it by laughing about him. Just support your dc in their choices, reassure them that it’s not them, it’s him.
The positive is having seen what he is like they’ll recognise narcissistic traits in people they meet and avoid.

Namechangefordaughterevasion · 21/03/2025 10:23

I totally get that you need to rant but don't kid yourself you have moved on. The fact that he is still taking up so much of your headspace is a clear indication that he is still pulling your strings.

Carry on being the loving, supportive parent you are to your DC. Dont interfere in their relationship with him. They need to work that out for themselves.

One day he will pull a stunt like this and your response will be an eye roll and a resigned 'still a total arse then'. Then you will know you have moved on.

BrightYellowDaffodil · 21/03/2025 10:26

He kept bleating on about 'his truth' and how he has the right to tell people how they have made him feel.

Well, two can play that game. I suspect he wouldn't like it at all if everyone else was honest with him about how he'd made them feel. By, perhaps, sending him this thread...

As for cards and presents, maybe your daughter could tell him that the money she would have spent in future will offset the £800 he owes her that he promised to pay?

Azureshores · 21/03/2025 10:39

I don't think I've ever read such a glaringly obvious case of a narcissist! Textbook.

Im so glad your dc's have finally realised what an arse he is. Really sad that he will have done a lot of damage to them though.

Id be quietly encouraging them to go NC or very LC. They may need to hear this from a therapist though.

Azureshores · 21/03/2025 10:40

DenholmElliot11 · 21/03/2025 07:55

Yes he’s a narcissist and you’re well rid of him. Kindly though- you need to move on now.

have you got some great plans organised for this weekend?

She allowed to talk about it and the damage it's doing to her kids ffs.

Pherian · 21/03/2025 10:42

Yep he’s a narc. I hope your kids ignore him from now on. They don’t need that. No one does.