Please please help me with this

[Gorgeousfeet]

Hi all.

my world feels like it’s been blown up this afternoon. My husband is working abroad . He accidentally called me on WhatsApp and I overheard him being incredibly flirty and quite pervy with another female. I think it was the cleaner in his room. It was for about five minutes and amongst other things I heard him tell her she had a lovely bum and could he feel it. Lots of random noises after that ( I am going not sex ) but maybe kissing afterwards.
He knows I know. He’s denying it.
Is there any way that I can retrieve the WhatsApp conversation on my phone? Does anyone know? Can anyone help me ? Please

I have so so much going on in my life right now and I can’t believe he’s done this.

Kindly, he has form - there is a history of at least emotional if not physical cheating so it's highly highly likely this is a pattern of behaviour that has continued.

Did you call it out when you expected an emotional affair? What happened?

Re-read your account of what you heard. Hang on to it.

I think his subterfuge/ changing stories and not calling immediately to try and sort out her situation is very telling that he's guilty.

He may come home and be honest with you. Or he may lie and gaslight. I'd imagine all evidence he may have on phone / email etc. will likely be deleted now but you could demand access to it and don't give him time to go somewhere like the loo to delete things.

Ultimately you deserve so so much better than this. Sending a big hug today.

You got through yesterday when you thought you couldn't. You will get through today. One step at a time.

Also did you consider what you heard was potentially sexual harassment/ assault? If she was just a maid in his room doing her job and he made comments about wanting to touch her bum (and then maybe actually touching her). Do you think she actually wanted that? Or was she in a country where women’s rights would mean she couldn’t object/ no one would care? It’s actually very worrying behaviour and I would almost prefer that it was someone he knew rather than him acting like a predator. If his version is that she was an employee of the hotel that’s even more unacceptable behaviour.

I called him out before . He denied it profusely. I asked to see his phone - he refused flatly ( he always keeps his phone very guarded )
That next day I received flowers from him through an online company. I did a bit of detective work and contacted them - pretending I was his PA or some shit ( can’t remember exactly) and that I just needed to know what time ( and confirmation for invoice purposes ) what time the order was made.
It turned out it was made in the afternoon. Yet I had caught him out mid morning in the garage.
I distinctly remember how I felt when I caught him then- like a massive punch in my tummy. I know they call it gut instinct but that’s what it was.
Except last Fridays was worse , so so much worse and I don’t think there is any coming back from it .

… the reason I had contacted them was because he had told me he was ordering me the flowers .. hence why he was in the garage .

No she was giggling. Very flirty back.

@Gorgeousfeet a lot of your situation sounds like mine 20 years ago. My exH was manipulative and often emotionally abusive. And he, too, had probably a few affairs prior to the one I caught him having… and I realised then just what an excellent liar he was and is… and how he’d always twist things to trigger my weaknesses and gaslight me. So once I knew, I deceived I didn’t need any more information from him because HE IS A LIAR. And liars lie. So don’t even waste your time thinking “he owes me the truth” as you won’t get it. You will get lies and you will get “if you’d been a better wife then I wouldn’t have had to do this” or you will get the “I’m so sorry and now I know I could lose you I will never do it again” version… but it’s lies. See him now as a liar and why bother speaking to or discussing anything with him? If he says something you want to hear (I love you and am so sorry) it’s a lie to protect himself. If you hear stuff you didn’t want to (I’ve been doing this for years and you’re to blame for not being available or for being mentally unwell or for being distracted by your dad) is that going to make you feel better- and is that even real?
The sad fact is your husband is not the man you thought he was, he’s not your souls mate or your best friend as that person would never ever do that to you. Now you see him for what he is, walk away. Honestly. I have been there and tried to talk and tried the therapy and tried everything but I wish I had just realised that he wasn’t who I thought he was- that was the bottom line. He was and is a liar and once I realised that- I could walk away. Best decision of my life.

There’s nothing to question. He’s a serial cheater. You’ve known before and here we are again.

What would you think of this man if he wasn’t your husband and heard him say “You have a nice bottom, can I touch it?” to any woman at all? You’d think what a sad, desperate prick.

As an aside, I think not telling people in real life gives him more power over you.

Stay strong 💪

Hi OP, what you described is exactly how I felt several years ago when EA came out, the punch to the gut, legs giving way, it’s so physical 😞 and the loss of best friend, all of it. I hope it is of some comfort to know you are not alone, sadly so many of us have been through devastation like this. You will survive and get through it. Hour by hour, day by day. I am so so sorry for what you are going through.

I would avoid a face to face with cheating DH at this point to protect yourself. You are in shock and pain, don’t give him an opportunity to add to this pain. Seeing him and having to listen to more lies and BS will only hurt you more.

If he is on his way back today I would be sending a message to relay ‘You will be making your own arrangements for accommodation when you land. Do not attempt to return to the house or contact me”.

I hope your son is doing ok, any improvement in the blood in wee situation?

Some women giggle when they are uncomfortable and try and appease men to get out of the situation which can come across as flirting. But I appreciate the issue at the moment is his behaviour regardless of whether it was unwanted. When is he due home?

I agree with what others have said. If he’s a liar which he has proven himself to be there is no point trying to get to the ‘truth’. Ultimately you know what you heard, it doesn’t matter what physically happened in the room. You now know he is not a man of integrity or someone you would want as a partner. You don’t need to debate the reasons behind his words. I would simply tell him you now know what type of man he really is. No need for further discussion. He can take that as he wants. It will drive him crazy not to know what you are thinking or planning. Then you have time to decide what to do.

One thing I see on here a lot is a women who have been treated badly/cheated on, they have evidence, but then go on a quest for the truth from their husband. They are going to confront the husband and demand the truth, because they deserve the truth from him.
The fact is you are dealing with a liar. He doesn’t believe you deserve the truth because lying serves his cheating.
You are wasting your time.
You already know the truth because you heard it. Don’t budge from that. There is no other truth of the matter.
He may try and persuade you that you heard wrong, or that you are mad.
But what you heard, and relayed to us is the thruth. You were a first-hand witness to it.
You need to concentrate your efforts now on leaving this man. And he had left you wide open to STIs so get checked.
Do not doubt yourself. You heard the truth of the situation and he’s a cheat.
If you decide to stay he will continue cheating and you will make yourself ill.

Sounds like he was role playing with someone in the room, girlfriend, co worker. Not likely to be hotel staff. I'm not sure why you would jump to that conclusion. He must be home by now as nowhere is more than a 24 hours flight. How it been?

Op, you know what you heard. Don’t let him gaslight you on top of everything else. Take a breathe and think about what you want to do next. Your husband sounds like a lying sleaze, I’m really sorry.

Oh ok, I understand now.

So sorry for what you are going through.

The worry over your dad and your son, and now this.
How awful.
Wishing you all the best with everything you have going on and I really hope you have some good support around you.

I saw this and wanted to reach out and see if you are any better this afternoon or need someone to talk to?

Thank you so much for all of your replies.
He arrived home and we never spoke for at least seven hours other than “ hello - how was your flight “. All v cordial.
Didn’t talk to him as I went into my bedroom and stayed there , mulling over things but equally had taken diazapam to calm me down.

Finally , eventually, he approached me in the kitchen when I went downstairs. Said he was sorry but that he hadn’t done anything wrong. Swore on everyone’s life and guaranteed me he had only touched her with his arse ( I know.. 😓). WTF
Apparently, it is a “ thing over where he was “ and that’s what they do: rub arses .
WTF

I was initially very calm , said I never believed him. Etc etc .
He has been very nonchalant: he’s done nothing, “ I’d never do that “ “ I can understand how it sounded but you’ve got it all wrong “ etc

I know. Know I am being gaslighted .

My head is all over the place and I genuinely don’t think I can handle much more of this.

He hasn’t been unkind: snappy with us all , but not awful. What on earth do I do?
According to him.. I have it completely wrong.

I am going nuts over this.
please advise..

I think it’s pretty obvious he’s a lying cheat shit.

The question is do you want to put up with this ? He’s humiliated you.

You don’t need an excuse to end your marriage, or his permission. He says you have it all wrong- you feel that you don’t. Just say “I don’t believe what you say, I don't trust you and I don’t need your permission to decide that this relationship is over.”
You can even just message it to him- you owe him nothing.

I know.

I know this times one million.

He has barely looked at me today - I mean . after three months apart you’d think there would be something. I have told him he loves me . As a mother etc , but he doesn’t fancy me, want me, care etc

He’s been on his phone most of the day. Barely looked at me other than tell me I look “ like a rake and I look ill”

There is no remorse. Nothing . I know that .

Aah man. This so breaks my heart.

And who do I tell . I am so distrustful it’s insane.

So sorry

I'm so sorry, he sounds like he has absolutely checked out of your marriage. He sounds uncaring and uninterested- to not speak to you for 7 hours, to spend most of the day on the phone (to whom?) and to say you look ill is just rude and unkind. Did he not check in about your son and Dad?

And he must think you're an absolute mug if this is the best he can come up with
Apparently, it is a “ thing over where he was “ and that’s what they do: rub arses .
I mean, was he living in a zoo or something?! I've never heard anything so ridiculous!

How long is he home for? Are you able to gather all key paper work etc to take to a solicitor?

You deserve so so much better than this.

I'm fairly well travelled and I don't know of anywhere it's customary to rub arses with housekeeping when they come to sort out your pillows.

It doesn't really matter what he does now. He might ignore you for a bit, try and blame it on you, move to desperate pleading, but it's lies. That's all you need to know. He's only interested in saving his arse as much as possible. Nothing more.

Do what you need to do. He doesn't deserve any more airtime, or any consideration in your plans.

My only advice is to leave him. You will never trust him again because he's a liar.

No one can tell you what to do. But I think the one thing you need is space. Can you ask him to stay elsewhere and tell him how serious you are as you know what you heard. His excuse sounds shit and he must know it, I’d consider booking in with a therapist so you can offload and take your next steps whatever they may be. I’ve been gaslighted in a relationship and I literally felt like I was losing my mind. I wasn’t though and I came through it stronger. You can do this.

He’s here and still stands by the ‘ arse rubbing’ etc

Of course I don’t believe a word.

What do I do? I’m here and I’ve got bigger things to worry about such as my Dad and Son.

I just know he’s lying to me. I confronted him- he said either I believe him or I don’t.
I feel so weak, pathetic and used.

Do I talk about this to someone else? Who ?
my word . It feels so shit. And yet we’re getting on okay ( I’m just a foolish loser )
with the exception of a few arguments here and there over shit things unrelated.
I feel like it’s not right . It isn’t right .
please advise me ..

I’m so sorry in Op, he must think you came down in the last shower to believe that frankly bizarre nonsense excuse. It doesn’t sound like he can be bothered to even make up a reasonably believable excuse.

At the moment he is controlling the situation - cheating, telling huge porky pies to your face, carrying on like nothing has happened, all presumably before heading off for months to do the same thing again. You cannot move on from this as a couple if he is just barefaced lying and unless he accepts culpability and is honest and remorseful your marriage is over.

So you have three options as far as I can see: (1) accept the lies, challenge no further and decide to end the relationship now or at a time of your convenience, (2) accept he’s lying and stay together but be clear what the terms of this relationship are for you, i.e; cohabitants/room mates, no longer building a future together but just there for the children, no longer any loyalty from you. Or of course, option 3 which is sweep under the carpet and move on.

You need to take back control of this situation - some things to think about :

1. Get counselling to talk this through with someone neutral and to try and work out what you want and what is within your control.
2. Work out what would be best for you right now - it sounds like you’ve got a lot on your plate and perhaps don’t have capacity to deal with this, You could choose to focus on the most urgent things in your life right now (your son and Dad etc) and be clear with him you don’t believe him, you don’t know what the future of your relationship is but you’ll deal with it when you have bandwidth.
3. You could tell him you don’t believe him, will never believe him, don’t trust him and can’t continue in a relationship with him as you know he is a cheat. Tell him you want to separate - see if he comes clean with the truth and decide based on what that truth is, what you want to happen.
4. When is he away again and for how long? You could play the long game and just leave it for now but plan for your exit emotionally, financially etc. get your ducks in a row, keep your powder dry and use the time he’s away to make plans.
5. Think very carefully before sleeping with him, of course!
6. Do you have separate bedrooms so you can create distance even if he won’t leave the house?
7. Stop cooking / cleaning etc for him -stop all wifely duties
8. Stop being friendly, he’s got absolutely no shame or remorse. He is not your friend. Grey rock him.

I don’t think you’re ever going to get the truth out of him, you know what you heard, it crossed your boundaries and so in a way it doesn’t really matter what he says on the subject. Based on the reality that he cheated, what do you want to do? Stay with him and accept he’s a cheat, or leave?

He’s absolutely gas lighting you right now and it’ll drive you mad if you don’t take control.