My partner places a different importance on him being close to my family than I do and I don't know how to proceed

[AlertOP]

30F, 33M. We have been together for three years and are loosely planning to get married.

He is seemingly obsessed with the idea of being "fully integrated" into my family as a condition for us moving forward in our relationship. I don't fully understand what this means but I have gathered that he feels that I separate him from my family in a way that he finds unacceptable. I've tried to meet his needs but keep missing the mark.

A brief backstory on my family: it is just me, my mom, and my sister. We all survived and escaped from an abusive patriarch and as a result are pretty close. I live a long drive away from them so only get to see them 1-2 times per year. The holidays especially are a precious time for me with them where we have a lot of traditions and it's always a super rejuvenating time of year for me.

My partner does not really like my mother because she is religious and she has expressed that she's not wild about me dating a non-religious man. I've set boundaries with her on this, and I understand why that's frustrating for him.

Here's a list of things that have happened:

1. The first year we were dating, we had been official for about 7 months when he wanted to come to my family's for Thanksgiving (we are American). I felt this was too soon to be honest but agreed. I did Christmas alone with them that year.

2. The next year, we did Thanksgiving with his family (who live locally). I then decided that I wanted to go do Christmas with my family alone again, which was a huge conflict between us. He was upset that I wanted to go alone. I understand his feeling. I wanted to go alone because I rarely get to see them and the "vibe" of being with just my family is special to me. He finally agreed that he would understand me going alone if I told my family to expect that this would be the last time they would have me alone for the holidays. In retrospect, I don't know that I agree with this. Personally, I would be fine if we always split to our nuclear families for the holidays (we don't and won't have kids) but I also understand that as your partner becomes your closer family it's typical to act as a unit so I've sort of just accepted that.

3. This year, I wasn't able to go home for the holidays due to work. My partner got super upset (bewildering frankly) when I wanted to tell my family alone that I wasn't going to be able to come home. I was going to be visiting them at the time (happenstance close proximity) and he wanted me to set up a phone call so that he could be a part of that news breaking and wasn't happy when I said I'd rather just talk to them alone so it can come up organically.

4. For Christmas this year, we planned for my family to come visit (This didn't happen due to an unrelated unexpected event). He felt very strongly that our families needed to spend a lot of time together and insisted that the whole day be our families together - one side visiting at our house during the day and then going to his other side's for dinner. This after we had also set up a gathering earlier in the week for them to meet. I tried to suggest that we do my family's usual Christmas dinner at our house and he go see his family without us, but that wasn't acceptable to him.

5. My sister and I every couple of years take a specific trip together. My partner has said a couple of times that he wants/plans to go on this trip with us the next time. I haven't broached this with him yet but I know me not wanting him to go is going to be another case of him not feeling "integrated".

I feel of two minds on this - on the one hand, I recognize that I value alone time with my family more than your average person and I definitely can see how feeling separated from your partner's family could be hurtful. At the same time, I start to feel like him wanting to be "integrated" is just him not wanting me to have any distinct relationship with my family from him. What are your thoughts?

I feel trapped and panicky just reading your OP. He sounds very controlling. I’d run.

I'd find his behaviour exhausting. And it's covered in red flags.

He wants to insert himself into your meaningful relationships. He doesn't worry about you working, but if you want to see your mum or your sisters, he's trying to push between you.

He has his own friends and family, so it isn't that he's lonely. He's trying to disrupt those relationships and isolate you.

I'd be easing myself away.

OP I've read the full thread and I just wanted to say a huge congratulations to you. You have obviously escaped an awful situation in childhood, got good relationships with your family, recognised the value of therapy and seem to be a well rounded and throughly self aware individual who recognises when things don't seem right.

This ability to listen to your instincts and recognise when things aren't quite right are something a lot of women strive for.

I think you know that there are red flags and I would continue to listen to that voice in your head as you move forward. I wish you lots of luck x

Thank you, this is very kind. I am definitely still working on honing that intuition. My historical response to anything that felt even a little off was to run for the hills (even when it was something genuinely benign) so I have been trying to practice staying when it is safe even if it is a little uncomfortable. It has only been recently that that discomfort has grown and I start to question the safety (emotionally at least). I do at least have the faith in myself that I'll make whatever choice is best for me and will be okay.

We all survived and escaped from an abusive patriarch and as a result are pretty close

In a nutshell - you've found yourself another one. Be very, very careful

Big red falags, he’s controlling. I wouldn’t be carrying this relationship on

My alarm bells began ringing very loudly upon reading your first post.

Reading your subsequent replies, as has been said - you've found yourself another one.

I have (unfortunately) had relationships with more than one abuser.

One of them appeared pretty charming but got very very uppity about being excluded from spending time with me if others were going to spend time with me. It was very important he had control over my interactions.

It escalated. And I'm not going into full details, but yours sounds like this ex of mine, specially nearer the start.

Get out. As safely as you can. Don't be anxious to call women's aid either, to ask their advice or support.

Please do not rush into any situation with him.

He sounds batshit, highly controlling and a bit unhinged.

I think you don't know the real him but boy woild that mask fully slip if ye married.

Listen to your gut, he is so needy and clingy, nothing will be enough for him.

Get out of it.

I agree with below, you have absolutely found yourself another abuser.
Get out safely.

May I ask what has prompted you to undertake couples therapy ? Whose suggestion was it ?

I agree with other posters - there are many red flags waving in the breezed and I would be very wary of finding myself in a therapeutic situation where my freedom to use my words was being restricted.

It's usual to spend Christmas with your partner and to see both sides of the family around Christmas.
I would be offended if my partner didn't want me to share all Christmas type occasions.
My partner would always be welcome.

Generally, I think, each person communicates the details/plans with their own family. I see you DP wanting to be in on all the discussion; that's odd.

I would not tolerate him coming on a trip with my sister.
Maybe, when sister partners up you could sometimes agree to a couples holiday (or to sometimes cancel trip) but that is always between you and your sister.

I find this very unsettling. It IS controlling. He doesn't seem to want you to have separate important relationships that he is not able to be part of. I find that invasive and suffocating... and tbh dangerous. As its a common abuse tactic to make sure that the victim has no outlets where they could be honest about how they are feeling or ask for help outside of the relationship. They want to make sure they are present for any meaningful communication their partner has with anyone.
Even if this hasn't become abusive it's extremely unhealthy.

For me it's the holiday with your sister that's ringing alarm bells.
The Christmas thing you could kind of pass off as normal.. as yes, if you are to be married, wanting all the family to be together and to be included as family, is kind of normal.
But wanting to go on holiday with two sisters, when the other sister is going alone, is frankly bizarre. It's just coming across as very controlling.
Thay coupled with you mentioning that he doesn't like it when you want to meet up with friends alone without him just really puts a different light on the Christmas stuff.

Tbh if I were you I'd be seriously reconsidering the entire relationship.
This type of thing usually just gets worse not better.

On the one hand I think it's normal for couples to share holidays together with their families. I know I would be hurt if dh wanted to spend his Christmas with his family without me.

But it's the fact he insists things be his way that feels controlling. There should be discussion and compromise not him saying this is what we should do. And it's totally normal and healthy to have time with family and friends separate from each other. Also your unique situation of having a small family with no males should be taken into account. Him going will completely change the vibe.

He's suffocating and needy at best, controlling and isolating at worst.

Either way, alarm bells, you're not compatible I think you should break up.

I start to feel like him wanting to be "integrated" is just him not wanting me to have any distinct relationship with my family from him. What are your thoughts?

I think you are absolutely right. I wonder if he thinks that muscling in like that will equalise the relationships, that he will become as close to your mum and sister as you are and they will love him as much as they do you and that he will mean the same to you as they do. It’s ridiculous. Family relationships and bonds are very different to intimate relationships (obviously). You will only ever have one mum, one sister and your shared history cannot be latched on to by some insecure twat who can’t stand you having something that he doesn’t have, even a normal relationship with your own family.

It just wouldn’t work for me and my family. They would find it quite repellent

At the end of the day no matter what the reasons and explanations, a relationship shouldn't be this hard and it should make you feel safe and happy. Your current partner doesn't have the emotional intelligence and doesn't want to. It's not a failing on your part. Plus he sounds actively controlling you shouldn't be in a relationship with someone you need to work so hard at boundaries with as he shouldn't be constantly overstepping.

He sometimes gets a little touchy about me hanging out with friends and saying he can't come (which isn't every time).

Good god, woman, run for the fucking hills.

Sounds like you're not really compatible, you both want different things.

I'd call it a day.

I’ve been married 30 years. DH wouldn’t dream of coming on a sister trip with me.
He wouldn’t question my saying ’Can we go to my mum’s for her birthday’ or ‘I’m going to mum’s for her birthday.’ I get to choose.

Sometimes he comes, sometimes he doesn’t.

Your guy sounds as though he doesn’t like you enjoying yourself unless he’s there. There are men who want all your good feelings to come from them, and nothing else. That’s why work trips are ok (until you are doing exceptionally well at which point it’s a threat).

OP, I think you are doing all the right things by being alert to the possibility of controlling behaviour.

I feel a bit split by what you are saying. There seems to be a genuine difference in family culture that means I can see why it would be hurtful to him to be excluded from your family. And I do wonder if you were truly head over heels and felt he was the 'right fit' you would want him there..... so I can understand why this might make him feel rejected and question the relationship. I can also see why in a first therapy session a partner would want to clarify that they weren't yelling/hitting etc if you used the word unsafe....

..,,. But that is different from being angry at you for saying what you felt. That's not ok. And I I think how early he wanted integrated with your family is a red flag. That feels like trying to instantly act like your husband/ inseparable. I also think wanting to gatecrash a one-on-one holiday with your sister is ridiculous and unhealthy. Be involved in key family events yes, somewhat. But gatecrash a one to one holiday tradition no way. And getting antsy about friends is also a bad sign. Your integration with family can say something deep about how much commitment you feel to someone. And it is very unusual for people to want family time to the exclusion of their much loved partner. But I think any healthy relationship should make tons of space for friendships to be maintained independently.

Is he critical of you generally? How do you feel your self esteem is around him?

Yes this is such a ploy on his part to control your conversations!

I think this thread is pretty well quieting down, but I wanted to make one last reply and say that I think this, over anything else in the thread, has nailed (my understanding at least of) his desires. From the conversations we've had, it seems to me that "fully integrated" to him means that all of our relationships are exactly equivalent. I have at times felt like I'm wrong for thinking that I just don't think that's reasonable - the relationships aren't necessarily "better or worse" but they are different and it's just inherent to a variety of factors.

@AlertOP But do you consider him as family given you're discussing marriage?

Your relationship is, you don't see him much as you travel loads for work. Your mother doesn't approve of him as he's not religious (this is quite a serious issue you've glossed over), you don't want to integrate him with your friends or family for various reasons and don't want to spend major holidays with him. It's pretty obvious you've never wanted a close relationship with him, yet instead of breaking up, you're taking him to therapy where you call him emotionally unsafe to a therapist and abusive for making you clarify what you mean to the therapist.

Maybe he is abusive or maybe he's desperately trying to have an emotionally intimate relationship with you and receiving mixed messages I.e discussing marriage while saying you'll never spend Xmas with him, or integrate him with your friends and family. You also need to be careful you're not punishing him for being a man and for all the things you are still angry with your father for. The kindest and best thing is to break with someone you do not want to have a serious, close relationship with. And work with the therapist on your own to understand your own challenges with getting truly vulnerable or intimate with someone - if you've never had a relationship with a man you want to integrate into your life.

I think that if you need therapy three years in then he isn't the one for you. It can only get worse. He sounds hard hard work and controlling. you believe what he says and are making decisions based upon it. Make decisions based on what his actions are, as he's probably lying when explaining them.

Do you want to be told how to conduct your family relationships, conversations, visits? No? Then don't engage with him and try to do what he says.
Do you want to go everywhere with him, even on a girls/friends night out? No, then tell him and see why his reaction is.

You won't have to explain why, just set up an event, tell him you just want it to be just girls, and see how he reacts. If he accepts it and doesn't try and persuade you, moan at you, twist the scenario so he joins you later, curtails it in any way and then doesn't sulk, get cross, quote it later as some kind of freedom you've had or punish you for it, then he's getting your point. If he does any of those things then you need to decide do you want another controlling man telling you what you can and can't do.

After 3 years in, a non controlling relationship you wouldn't be having these issues. He would want you to be happy and you wouldn't have to be explaining yourself all the time.

You are being very expressive on your needs and telling the truth. You are taking his views and considering them as though he is also telling the truth. The reasons for his requests though are not true. He is not exactly going to say I want to sit in on your conversation with your family or therapist because I want to know exactly what you've said about me and make sure you are telling them what you think that may be negative about me and I want to control the narrative. Just see the actions when he made you explain your emotionally unsafe comment. He's pushing his agenda all the time, and because you are a nice person telling the truth, you are trying to consider him and his 'reasons'. They are lies to forward his agenda.

I'm thinking Op that as your DM and sister have suffered the same abuse as you and may not want a close relationship with your partner. Like you, they'll be wary of men pushing in and trying to take over so it's probably nicer for them just to see you, your partner needs to see it's not all about what he wants.
He sounds very needy or controlling, even marriage doesn't mean you're joined at the hip. Forget the wedding plans, just wait and see but don't let him push into your family

This isn't about him being part of your family. This is weird controlling behaviour which will disconnect you from your family. I have a bad feeling about all this.