My partner places a different importance on him being close to my family than I do and I don't know how to proceed

[AlertOP]

30F, 33M. We have been together for three years and are loosely planning to get married.

He is seemingly obsessed with the idea of being "fully integrated" into my family as a condition for us moving forward in our relationship. I don't fully understand what this means but I have gathered that he feels that I separate him from my family in a way that he finds unacceptable. I've tried to meet his needs but keep missing the mark.

A brief backstory on my family: it is just me, my mom, and my sister. We all survived and escaped from an abusive patriarch and as a result are pretty close. I live a long drive away from them so only get to see them 1-2 times per year. The holidays especially are a precious time for me with them where we have a lot of traditions and it's always a super rejuvenating time of year for me.

My partner does not really like my mother because she is religious and she has expressed that she's not wild about me dating a non-religious man. I've set boundaries with her on this, and I understand why that's frustrating for him.

Here's a list of things that have happened:

1. The first year we were dating, we had been official for about 7 months when he wanted to come to my family's for Thanksgiving (we are American). I felt this was too soon to be honest but agreed. I did Christmas alone with them that year.

2. The next year, we did Thanksgiving with his family (who live locally). I then decided that I wanted to go do Christmas with my family alone again, which was a huge conflict between us. He was upset that I wanted to go alone. I understand his feeling. I wanted to go alone because I rarely get to see them and the "vibe" of being with just my family is special to me. He finally agreed that he would understand me going alone if I told my family to expect that this would be the last time they would have me alone for the holidays. In retrospect, I don't know that I agree with this. Personally, I would be fine if we always split to our nuclear families for the holidays (we don't and won't have kids) but I also understand that as your partner becomes your closer family it's typical to act as a unit so I've sort of just accepted that.

3. This year, I wasn't able to go home for the holidays due to work. My partner got super upset (bewildering frankly) when I wanted to tell my family alone that I wasn't going to be able to come home. I was going to be visiting them at the time (happenstance close proximity) and he wanted me to set up a phone call so that he could be a part of that news breaking and wasn't happy when I said I'd rather just talk to them alone so it can come up organically.

4. For Christmas this year, we planned for my family to come visit (This didn't happen due to an unrelated unexpected event). He felt very strongly that our families needed to spend a lot of time together and insisted that the whole day be our families together - one side visiting at our house during the day and then going to his other side's for dinner. This after we had also set up a gathering earlier in the week for them to meet. I tried to suggest that we do my family's usual Christmas dinner at our house and he go see his family without us, but that wasn't acceptable to him.

5. My sister and I every couple of years take a specific trip together. My partner has said a couple of times that he wants/plans to go on this trip with us the next time. I haven't broached this with him yet but I know me not wanting him to go is going to be another case of him not feeling "integrated".

I feel of two minds on this - on the one hand, I recognize that I value alone time with my family more than your average person and I definitely can see how feeling separated from your partner's family could be hurtful. At the same time, I start to feel like him wanting to be "integrated" is just him not wanting me to have any distinct relationship with my family from him. What are your thoughts?

I would definitely not be comfortable with my partner telling me he did not to spend Christmas with me - ever - and that it was so important to him that he spends it with his family (and not with me). Not surprised he is getting niggley with you about other areas where he is "not allowed" to join in.

I think him being "touchy" about you seeing your friends on your own and about talking to your family about this on your own are red flags.

He's supportive about work travel - pffft. For now. You're unlikely to be talking about your relationship or whatever if you're working.

I think he doesn't particularly want you having that space to discuss what's going on in your relationship.

I think it's the thin edge of the wedge.

You said you escaped a patriarch OP. Sounds really hard situation.

Im wondering whether you have had counselling to process what happened?

Im asking because we often recreate scenarios from the past when we have unresolved trauma. Im wondering whether that could be true for you right now?

Sending all the best.

You rarely see your family as they live at a distance. He’s trying to be sure you don’t see them without him- even on video calls.

He also doesn’t like you socialising without him.

This isn’t about him wanting to be part of your life, it’s about being sure that no part of your life happens without him.

And forcing the two families to spend time together when it’s the only time you get to see them- turning a family occasion into a meeting new people occasion- just not fair at all.

You’ve fallen in with another controlling man I’m afraid. Sorry.

I've done oodles of therapy and it's been immensely helpful. Unfortunately with complex trauma it can still be difficult to separate what emotions/sensations come from prior trauma and which are a logical "now" reaction. That's what I'm working on parsing out here now.

At best I think you just have incompatible family styles - it’s not going to get better - one or both of you are going to feel they aren’t getting what they need.

At worst I think he’s showing signs of being very controlling which will potentially get worse the longer you are together - the biggest red flags to be are not wanting you to socialize with your friends on your own and wanting to come on your special sister trip.

@myplace most excellent post.

@AlertOP at the very minimum, you would be wise to put marriage on the back burner.

So many red flags with him, as countless others have posted.

You are obviously uneasy @AlertOP, rightly so, imo.

Perhaps have a final conversation with him outlining your concerns and how you would like your relationship to progress, his answers may give you further clarity?

Imho, he is not "your one" lovely, have the courage to step away now.

Good luck🌻

Do you think this is the right relationship for you?
I wonder if it was and you were sure of it you would be keen for your dp be part of those spécial times with your mum and sister?

(I mean no one should expect to be joined at the hip and so of course you should be able to visit family and friends whenever you wish. No one should be "allowing" you to do this as if they get any say.)

Perhaps your desire to keep the relationships quite separate is a sign that perhaps you aren't sure about this one?

Glad to hear you’ve had therapy. Is there a current therapist you could speak to about how you’re feeling right now?

Unfortunately no - my work situation right now doesn't allow me to take any time for therapy (it's complicated and temporary - you'll just have to trust me on this). We are about to start couples therapy though (that scheduling was able to work out) and we will definitely be discussing this.

Honestly, this is an interesting point. I've kind of operated under the feeling that this is just how I am and how I would feel about any relationship. But maybe not - I suppose it is possible that I could feel more eager about this "integration" in a different situation. Food for thought, thanks.

him wanting to be "integrated" is just him not wanting me to have any distinct relationship with my family from him.

I agree with this, he sounds controlling, stand your ground and say that you want just want to spend some girls time with your mum and sister as the dynamic changes when there is a man there

He can't control how your mom and sister feel about him or how much time they spend with him. He can't control who they hang out with or how much time they spend with his family. He can't control who they want to communicate with. Wanting to be included on all your family calls is not good at all. Is he trying to isolate you from your family and monitoring what you say to them? There's a lot of nasty red flags here.

He sounds unreasonable in his expectations and extremely controlling. Sounds like you've found a controlling partner much like your dad.

He can only control himself, not other people.

Run.

It is hard to to say whether this a control issue or a case of coming from a different family dynamic. It sounds like you a strong bond with your mother and sister and genuinely enjoy your family Christmas. It strikes me as a bit odd that if you were to get married (and I assuming having children), you would be happy to spend Christmas apart. In the early stages of a relationship, I think it fine to spend Christmas separately. In a marriage and long term relationship, I think it be unusual to every Christmas separately particularly if you have made your own family. Do you think you would feel how you currently feel, you have parent were still together. Did your partner grow up with couples doing everything together?

R.e. the phone call - his expressed reason for wanting to be a part of it is that he felt like he was separated and not part of my family if he wasn't included in that conversation

Nope, sorry, that is absolutely not ok and not normal. Nobody feels separated from the family because they’re not included in a phone call. I feel part of my husband’s family, and wouldn’t dream of trying to put me on his phone calls with them. Nobody does that. It just isn’t a thing.

He’s controlling- very much so - and I hope the penny drops soon. If not, you’re in for a life of being told who you can and can’t see, him monitoring your phone calls, and him muscling in on any trip you want to go on with friends or family.

I think the issue is two fold -

1. You see 'family' as a concept that excludes him. So he is your partner, not your family.
2. He has a higher than normal need to be a part of your family, and while initially I thought he was suffocating, I now wonder if he's just looking for some validation you see him as family. And if you offered him Xmas for example, he wouldn't care about the other stuff. Wanting to do joint announcements and intrude on your sister time is intrusive for sure, and merging both families sounds hellish.

When I was dating DH he kept me very separate from all his family for a few years which did upset me. They lived down the road so not the same as yours - but he too would see his mum for Xmas and then come see me. If there were family gatherings, he'd go with his mum and siblings, not me. They too were all single so partners just never featured and I thought it a bit insular. I did question whether he didn't see me as a serious relationship though we talked marriage. Similarly with his friends, I met a few of them but he had a large group where I wasn't invited even though he was always invited by my friends. He didn't think to invite me either.

Summary is, I did find the compartmentalisation quite weird and seriously considered whether I wanted this sort of relationship. I didn't want to be integrated into it, but just to be acknowledged as an important part of his life. Over time we both realised that with his family and friends - they weren't coupled up so partners were never considered. And they were all a bit socially awkward so he didn't want me to feel awkward with them. Also his mother had become a bit of a matriarch after his dad left and liked it being just her and her boys.

My DH organically got to a stage where he didn't like attending events without me and I started being included more. And for Xmas he said it felt weird sitting with his mum and brothers like they had as children without partners - like time had stopped still (we are 30s). But it needed to come from him wanting me there and making it clear to his family and friends I was an important part of his life - and i then had the choice to not go. As it turns out they are all a bit socially awkward so I'm quite happy they give us lots of space now!!

My own family live a 9hour flight away so l see them once-twice a year like you, which includes Xmas. But I can't relate to only wanting to see them alone as it would feel weird to not have DH by my side (am an only child). I wouldn't have married DH if I couldn't comfortably include him with my family. Now we are married, we alternate holidays with either side but never blended!

If you're not at a stage where you feel comfortable including DP in family and friend things, maybe he isn't the right partner? Or maybe you both have different expectations of a relationship? You're not wrong that it feels pushy and some of his requests make no sense. But I would also explore whether marriage to anyone makes sense if you'll always keep them apart from a large and important part of you.

You seen to be carefully considering whether your relationship with your family meets society's norms - this is a red herring. It doesn't matter whether "most people" do certain things, it only matters that it works for your family.

I am concerned that your relationship is in the shadow of your parents' relationship. Have you heard of the shark cage analogy? It describes how we build our own safety cage according to our upbringing, and men test how strong our cage is by pushing against the bars. Anyway, if you are interested you will find it online.

The main thing I wanted to raise was that your boyfriend is probably lovely to be around when things are going his way - most people are - and this means nothing. It's how people behave when things aren't going they're way that you should focus on. If you stay together, this is what you'll see more of. It's up to you to decide whether you want to stay together, but good communication (rather than sulking etc) and mutual respect are essential. Good luck.

Be really careful about the couples’ therapy.

If you come out of it frustrated and confused, and feeling as though it’s not quite fair and apparently all your fault… that can happen with an abusive partner. He can charm the counsellor, get them onside, and represent everything as being your fault. You may feel you haven’t been heard and that your words are being twisted.

If this happens, don’t assume it’s true. It may be yet more evidence that he’s controlling.

A woman on here recently wasn’t allowed to tell the therapist what had actually happened in case the therapist ’didnt understand’ and thought he was a bad guy.
obviously, he was!

So true, @Secondguess !

I appreciate this reminder and I am definitely prepared to be vigilant for this. Fortunately I have gotten much better in recent years and months at being able to see what is happening as it's happening and advocating for myself when I'm not being heard or understood.

I guess I'll keep digging my grave here - something that did happen just recently. We had our brief initial consult call with our therapist and I was describing a short timeline of what has happened in our relationship lately. I described feeling emotionally unsafe (words that I have used to my partner before) and he asked me to clarify that I didn't mean abusive behaviors like yelling, name calling, physical violence, etc (which is true that he does not do these things). I clarified happily. When we got off the call he was quite upset that I had used the phrase "I was feeling emotionally unsafe" without automatically explaining further because he felt it painted him as abusive. It definitely raised a red flag for me of having my words controlled. Although I do understand not wanting to be painted in a more negative light than is warranted or risk being misunderstood.

I find mixing people from different parts of my life quite stressful and would find this all too much pressure, especially the trip with your sister! Most men would realise that they would be a total spare part on that kind of trip and would happily see you go without them.

Quite a few people would find spending Christmas with their partner important so if that was the only thing, I might compromise on that, but not with all the family social engineering he has going on.

I was feeling emotionally unsafe

I think most partners would be a bit unhappy / disappointed to hear their other half say this, I know I would be extremely disappointed especially if I was unaware that I did anything to deliberately cause it.

Maybe he is unaware that his behaviour is making you feel this way and you need to spell it out very clearly

We have discussed this extensively and I have detailed out exactly what I mean by that phrase - I promise it wasn't a blindsiding thing in the therapy session.

Absolutely this!

Did you move hours away from your family to be with him?
He sounds very intense and needy to me